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Flames might sit Baertschi for game against Oilers

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01-26-2013, 02:35 AM
  #26
HighLifeMan
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixons Dad View Post
Maybe those players have earned those positions and have not had them handed to them on the basis of being young and very promising?

If any of those players were being outperformed by other players on their team they would sit a night or two as well. They don't need to "show a little faith" in their young players, no faith is needed, they have earned those spots. It's not like we are holding our player to a different standard. Ours could use a game in the pressbox. Theirs don't.
You can't honestly believe that. Why isn't Mike Cammalleri sitting then? Or Jay Bouwmeester? Or Mark Giordano? They have all had significant opportunities in the first three games and have failed miserably. If anything they should be the players being held accountable, not a 20 year old rookie.

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01-26-2013, 02:50 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Where does Sven fit in this lineup moving forward though? The fact is we have far to many tweener forwards on this roster that are taking away ice time and opportunity from our younger players (Brodie, Sven, Horak etc...)

Look around the league and you will see why our organization struggles to produce NHL talent consistently
- In Boston they are playing Dougie Hamilton 18 minutes a night.
- In Ottawa they are playing Jakob Silfverberg on the top line.
- In Vancouver they are playing Zack Kassian with the Sedins.
- In Edmonton Justin Schultz is playing 26 minutes a night.
- In Minnesota Mikael Granlund is playing in the top six, and getting 16 minutes a night.
- In Florida Huberdeau is playing in the top six
- In Tampa Bay Conacher is playing in the top six

The list goes on and on..and guess what? They are all doing better than the Flames.

Why cant we show a little faith in our young players? It's not like we have anything to lose, we are 0-3 for crying out loud.

If Sven is simply going to play 10-13 minutes a night and be rotated in and out of the lineup for the entirety of the season then I would prefer he play in Abbotsford.
Silfverberg is 2 years older and is seeing 2 minutes more of 5v5 and the same amount of pp

Kassian is 2 years older and seeing 1 minute more if 5v5 time and about 20-30 seconds more of pp which should drastically change when Booth and Kesler are back

Granlund is the same age and plays 1:30 more 5v5 and 1 minute more pp but is clearly a step ahead right now

Huberdeau is the same age and plays the same amount of 5v5 and 1:30 more on the pp he is also a step ahead right now

Conacher is 3 years older and plays less 5v5 and 1:30 more pp

I left out the defense men as they are different but of the players you listed they are almost all older and if not older are better players right now and most see between 11 -13 minutes of 5v5 time and around 2 minutes of pp time.

Hell look at Philly both Couts and Schenn played less than 12:20 5v5 last year and this year both are playing less that 12:30 5v5. In other words almost all rookies start off slow its not that the team doesn't believe in them but its how you break a rookie in. Can we please stop acting like all teams hand feed their rookies 20+ minutes a night of 5v5 like the oiler do their entire team is young players someone has to play. The vast majority of teams are doing what we do, in the long run either Cammy or Stemps is traded to make room for Sven or he spends the year in the AHL like another top prospect Zibanejad. This is one game not the end of the world and is not stalling Sven.

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01-26-2013, 03:06 AM
  #28
HighLifeMan
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Silfverberg is 2 years older and is seeing 2 minutes more of 5v5 and the same amount of pp

Kassian is 2 years older and seeing 1 minute more if 5v5 time and about 20-30 seconds more of pp which should drastically change when Booth and Kesler are back

Granlund is the same age and plays 1:30 more 5v5 and 1 minute more pp but is clearly a step ahead right now

Huberdeau is the same age and plays the same amount of 5v5 and 1:30 more on the pp he is also a step ahead right now

Conacher is 3 years older and plays less 5v5 and 1:30 more pp

I left out the defense men as they are different but of the players you listed they are almost all older and if not older are better players right now and most see between 11 -13 minutes of 5v5 time and around 2 minutes of pp time.

Hell look at Philly both Couts and Schenn played less than 12:20 5v5 last year and this year both are playing less that 12:30 5v5. In other words almost all rookies start off slow its not that the team doesn't believe in them but its how you break a rookie in. Can we please stop acting like all teams hand feed their rookies 20+ minutes a night of 5v5 like the oiler do their entire team is young players someone has to play. The vast majority of teams are doing what we do, in the long run either Cammy or Stemps is traded to make room for Sven or he spends the year in the AHL like another top prospect Zibanejad. This is one game not the end of the world and is not stalling Sven.
You proved my point. Each and every one of those players is being put in a more favorable position to have success. Better linemates, and more PP time specifically.

Like I said, it is not the one game that worries me. It is looking at this roster and having Sven and Horak on the outside looking in because it is chalked full of underperforming veterans.

If Hartley finds a top nine spot for Baertschi when everyone is healthy then so be it, but I am not counting on it.

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01-26-2013, 03:31 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
You proved my point. Each and every one of those players is being put in a more favorable position to have success. Better linemates, and more PP time specifically.

Like I said, it is not the one game that worries me. It is looking at this roster and having Sven and Horak on the outside looking in because it is chalked full of underperforming veterans.

If Hartley finds a top nine spot for Baertschi when everyone is healthy then so be it, but I am not counting on it.
You seem like you have a knack for blowing things out of proportion.

Baertschi has for the most part played with Cammalleri who is our 3rd best forward (one could argue he is 2nd best) and has a style of game that should compliment Baertschi. How is that not putting him in a position to succeed?

The difference between Baertschi and those other players you brought up is they have taken that opportunity and done something with it already this year. Sven has not. He has to earn it, his play has been mediocre and that is why he is sitting.

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01-26-2013, 04:20 AM
  #30
HighLifeMan
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
You seem like you have a knack for blowing things out of proportion.

Baertschi has for the most part played with Cammalleri who is our 3rd best forward (one could argue he is 2nd best) and has a style of game that should compliment Baertschi. How is that not putting him in a position to succeed?

The difference between Baertschi and those other players you brought up is they have taken that opportunity and done something with it already this year. Sven has not. He has to earn it, his play has been mediocre and that is why he is sitting.
I have every right to be concerned about the way this organization develops their talent, the track record speaks for itself.

I would also argue that Cammalleri has been the worst Flame to this point in the season. I doubt many would disagree with that statement either, and yet due to his history with the Flames he is given the leeway and opportunity to overcome his struggles. Baertschi on the other hand gets relegated to playing with Comeau and Stajan and may find himself out of the lineup all together. I simply disagree with those decisions.

Listen, if Bob wants to sit Sven for one game then all the power to him but I honestly don't see a spot for him moving forward with a healthy lineup, unless of course he is bouncing in and out of the lineup and receiving inconsistent minutes. I would not advocate for that kind of treatment, so I hope something is figured out here shortly.


Last edited by HighLifeMan: 01-26-2013 at 07:44 AM.
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01-26-2013, 05:04 AM
  #31
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I think some of the lazy overpaid vets need a couple nights off . Cammys been taking nights off so give him a couple for real This is where old players go to get rich and young players to rot

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01-26-2013, 05:11 AM
  #32
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Maybe he has the flu

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01-26-2013, 06:53 AM
  #33
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Cammy should be the one sitting, he has been useless. Maybe Sven is hurt or sick. I wouldn't read too much in to it. Still as of now my lines would be this:

Bartschi-backlund-iginla
Glencross-cervenka-hudler
Tangauy-Stajan-stempniak
Jones-begin-jackman

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01-26-2013, 08:05 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Cammy should be the one sitting, he has been useless. Maybe Sven is hurt or sick. I wouldn't read too much in to it. Still as of now my lines would be this:

Bartschi-backlund-iginla
Glencross-cervenka-hudler
Tangauy-Stajan-stempniak
Jones-begin-jackman
I think I heard that Cervenka and Hudler were practicing on the wings of Stajan actually.

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01-26-2013, 08:18 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I think I heard that Cervenka and Hudler were practicing on the wings of Stajan actually.
I think Hudler should work well with Stajan; Stajan is a similar player (although a shade below in overall skill) to Filppula. And Hudler's chemistry with Filppula is absolutely ridiculous.

Stajan being highly skilled on the faceoff and Hudler's abilities with the puck should create some interesting action. I haven't seen Cervenka, so I can't comment on what he'll bring to the line - especially as a center being moved to the wing.

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01-26-2013, 08:19 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I think I heard that Cervenka and Hudler were practicing on the wings of Stajan actually.
I don't agree with what Hartley is doing.

We need a miracle up the middle. Cervenka could be that big strong centre this team desperately needs. What are we risking at this point by trying him there? Nothing, this team has looked brutal, outside of a handful of noteworthy performers.

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01-26-2013, 08:21 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
You seem like you have a knack for blowing things out of proportion.

Baertschi has for the most part played with Cammalleri who is our 3rd best forward (one could argue he is 2nd best) and has a style of game that should compliment Baertschi. How is that not putting him in a position to succeed?

The difference between Baertschi and those other players you brought up is they have taken that opportunity and done something with it already this year. Sven has not. He has to earn it, his play has been mediocre and that is why he is sitting.
Is Cammalleri really better than Glencross or Hudler? He wasn't last year. Those guys are in their prime, and he's not. I've always been a big fan of Cammalleri, even since before he was drafted. But come on, the guy has taken a major downturn and isn't showing a recovery the way people were expecting.

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01-26-2013, 08:29 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
I don't agree with what Hartley is doing.

We need a miracle up the middle. Cervenka could be that big strong centre this team desperately needs. What are we risking at this point by trying him there? Nothing, this team has looked brutal, outside of a handful of noteworthy performers.
Keep in mind that this is Cervenka's first NHL game and playing center has alot more responsibility than the wing. Im sure that once Cervenka gets more comfortable they will try him at center at some point.

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01-26-2013, 08:53 AM
  #39
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Hey guys you think he will be sent down? I have him on my fantasy team big fan of Sven. Not sure if I have to put him on the bench for now or not.

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01-26-2013, 09:30 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
I don't agree with what Hartley is doing.

We need a miracle up the middle. Cervenka could be that big strong centre this team desperately needs. What are we risking at this point by trying him there? Nothing, this team has looked brutal, outside of a handful of noteworthy performers.
In the piece on the Flames website Hartley said he is going to play Cervenka as RW for now because they reviewed video from him time in the KHL and the systems he played under aren't even close to what the Flames will be playing so he feels Cervenka will be better off on RW until he adjusts to the North American game.

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01-26-2013, 09:36 AM
  #41
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Sven sitting is a good thing. If Cammy doesn't put up numbers, I believe he will sit next. Point is Sven hasn't really done anything to earn that top 9 role. Plus he is no good to a 4th line role so why not sit him.

I'd rather have a roster full of wingers playing to earn their spot. That is why I think Cammy should be the next sat. We've seen what happens when players get sat (GlenX)

Don't worry about Sven. Plus it could benefit him to watch how teams like EDM use their young players, and how they are also shut down.

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01-26-2013, 11:22 AM
  #42
Stewie Griffin
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Originally Posted by redsono93 View Post
Hey guys you think he will be sent down? I have him on my fantasy team big fan of Sven. Not sure if I have to put him on the bench for now or not.
I don't think he's going to be sent down, but if you have other options, safe bet would be to bench him tonight.

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01-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
You proved my point. Each and every one of those players is being put in a more favorable position to have success. Better linemates, and more PP time specifically.

Like I said, it is not the one game that worries me. It is looking at this roster and having Sven and Horak on the outside looking in because it is chalked full of underperforming veterans.

If Hartley finds a top nine spot for Baertschi when everyone is healthy then so be it, but I am not counting on it.
What no I proved almost all are older and play about the same amount of 5v5, those that get more pp time have clearly better then Sven right now. Sven played with Backlund and Cammy, how is that worse then Talbot and Rinaldo Couts got last year? Thats about as good as Simmonds and Biere as Schenn got.

You are acting like Sven sees no pp time he sees almost 2 minutes a night. What I showed was the majority of top prospects play the same amount of ice time Sven does the fact this team get create tallent is that under any Sutter Sven would be on the 4th line learning to grind and like Boyd and Lombardi before him it would have ruined him. Hartley isn't doing that to Sven he wants to what we have in Cervenka and Hudler before he sends Sven down if he does or else he will make room for him. Stop blowing this out the water all top prospects see 10-13 minutes of 5v5 and 2-3 minutes of pp. Unlike the oilers and the wild we don't giant holes for Sven to step in and fill of course he will have to work to get ice time.

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01-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
I don't agree with what Hartley is doing.

We need a miracle up the middle. Cervenka could be that big strong centre this team desperately needs. What are we risking at this point by trying him there? Nothing, this team has looked brutal, outside of a handful of noteworthy performers.
Cervenka hasn't played a hockey game in months, he wasn't used often at center in the past year due to suspect defense, he has never played in the nhl. It is alot to ask of him to try and play center why not play it safe and let Stajan center him until he is comfortable playing in the nhl?

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01-26-2013, 12:02 PM
  #45
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He's not sitting. On the fourth line with Jones and Comeau.

Quote:
Pat Steinberg ‏@Fan960Steinberg
#Flames lines this morning: Glencross-Tanguay-Iginla; Hudler-Stajan-Cervenka; Cammalleri-Backlund-Stempniak; Baertschi-Jones-Comeau
He should have Cammalleri's spot. He has awesome chemistry with Backlund and Cammy isn't doing shat. If Butler can get benched, no reason Cammy shouldn't.

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01-26-2013, 12:05 PM
  #46
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He's not sitting. On the fourth line with Jones and Comeau.



He should have Cammalleri's spot. He has awesome chemistry with Backlund and Cammy isn't doing shat. If Butler can get benched, no reason Cammy shouldn't.
Thats even ****ing worse to have him on the 4th line.

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01-26-2013, 12:06 PM
  #47
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What I don't get is how Stempniak stated he loves playing with Stagan, put up points with him, yet he isn't on the line with him. The more I think about line combo's I think this should be the line-up against the Oilers:

1. GlenX - Backs - Iggy
2. Cervanka - Tangs - Hudler
3. Cammy - Stagan - Stemps
4. Begin - Jones - Jackman

Although it sounds like Sven will play tonight, I still think it would be good if he sat.
1. Give this line a chance to succeed.
2. I think Tangs would be better with these two to get the confidence going.
3. Stagan and Stemps have been strong together. Maybe they will save Cammy from Press Box duty if they help him succeed. Sad but true.
4. I want in your face, hit and run play against the kids in Edmonton. If these guys are taking up roster spots you would think it's for games like these.

Again, I'm always wrong, but then get proven right a game or 2 later....

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01-26-2013, 12:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Thats even ****ing worse to have him on the 4th line.
Exactly. If they don't have room in top six, sit him. Rather have a true 4th line against the oilers

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01-26-2013, 12:12 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Exactly. If they don't have room in top six, sit him. Rather have a true 4th line against the oilers
The only thing I can think of is that he will rotate around to other lines as needed since we Jone-Comeau aren't exactly the toughest line anyway.

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01-26-2013, 12:12 PM
  #50
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I understand people want to see Baerstchi play. Hell I understand if people think he's been our best forward.

But usually guys like Baerstchi are given easy minutes. Time on ice during offensive zone face-offs against mediocre competition. All their ask to do is to have some fun.

I'm sure Cammy on the other hand is asked to read the play, keep it in the zone, teach the kids to backcheck, and help them play within the system. Babysitting, really. I'm sure it's hard for Cammy to be asked to babysit on the 3rd line when he wants to play with Iggy against the best and play when the game is on the line.

Or maybe it's just me giving Hartely the benefit of the doubt.

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