HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time – #1

View Poll Results: Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time – #1
Peter Stastny 41 64.06%
Peter Bondra 6 9.38%
Pavol Demitra 0 0%
Zdeno Chara 14 21.88%
Zigmund Palffy 1 1.56%
Marian Hossa 1 1.56%
Vladimir Dzurilla 0 0%
Marian Gaborik 0 0%
Lubomir Visnovsky 0 0%
Anton Stastny 0 0%
Marian Stastny 0 0%
Miroslav Satan 1 1.56%
Robert Svehla 0 0%
Jozef Stümpel 0 0%
Ladislav Nagy 0 0%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2013, 06:23 AM
  #1
the edler
Inimitable
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,356
vCash: 500
Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time – #1

Let me know if you feel I need to add, replace or remove someone from the list

I'm no Andy Sutton on slovak hockey players, especially not pre 90s

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 06:36 AM
  #2
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 38,086
vCash: 500
This will help you figure out who to add:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_Hockey_Hall_of_Fame

I would add Vaclav Nedomansky next, probably followed by Jozef Golonka.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 07:30 AM
  #3
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,529
vCash: 500
Couple of thoughts:

1) Does Stan Mikita - er, Stanislav Guoth - not count? I can understand if/why not, but as a 2X Hart winner and 4X Art Ross winner, and possibly the best centre of his time, he'd no doubt stand out above, well, everyone on this list.

2) I likes me the Stastny brothers, but for all of Peter's points and skill, did he ever really reach the heights (particularly relative to his peers) of Chara - perennial Norris candidate with plenty of post-season all-stars to Stastny's 0 (what an era, though), captain of a Cup winner, etc?

3) It's going to get interesting for me when it comes time to put Demitra, Bondra, Palffy, Hossa in some kind of order.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 07:48 AM
  #4
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
2) I likes me the Stastny brothers, but for all of Peter's points and skill, did he ever really reach the heights (particularly relative to his peers) of Chara - perennial Norris candidate with plenty of post-season all-stars to Stastny's 0 (what an era, though), captain of a Cup winner, etc?
Yes and it's not really about removing Gretzky either, there were plenty of centres at or above Peters level.

Darth Yoda is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:02 AM
  #5
Reds4Life
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Reds4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,516
vCash: 500
Probably Chara, as much as I dislike him. But he is the only Slovak who was the best at his position, at least for a short time.

Reds4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:37 AM
  #6
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Couple of thoughts:

1) Does Stan Mikita - er, Stanislav Guoth - not count? I can understand if/why not, but as a 2X Hart winner and 4X Art Ross winner, and possibly the best centre of his time, he'd no doubt stand out above, well, everyone on this list.
Not a Slovak hockey player. While he is an ethnic Slovak, he moved to Canada when he was 8 and learned to play hockey there.

At most, he can be included somewhere as a side note, with an asterisk. He is a Canadian hockey player of Slovak origin.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:41 AM
  #7
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This will help you figure out who to add:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_Hockey_Hall_of_Fame

I would add Vaclav Nedomansky next, probably followed by Jozef Golonka.
He was born in a village close to Slovak borders and he did say he feels more Slovak than he does Czech (having played 12 years for Slovan Bratislava), but I still wouldn't include him in this list. He is Czech.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:45 AM
  #8
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Probably Chara, as much as I dislike him. But he is the only Slovak who was the best at his position, at least for a short time.
Marian Hossa has a strong argument as the best RW for the period from 2002-03, inclusive. Maybe not for every single individual year (although there are several years where he at minimum has a very strong argument) but given that a) Jagr leads RW with a 1.05 PPG and Hossa is 4th with a 1.01 over the same time frame (St.Louis 1.04, Alfredsson 1.02) and b) Hossa has been getting Selke votes since 2000-01, it' hard to make the argument that such a small scoring difference (3-4 points in a season) trump the defensive difference between the players.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:46 AM
  #9
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,968
vCash: 500
Oh yeah and if anyone's wondering, I've done something similar a few years ago -

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=672055

That's the thread with the top 7 list, as well as links to the respective polls.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:48 AM
  #10
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 38,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
He was born in a village close to Slovak borders and he did say he feels more Slovak than he does Czech (having played 12 years for Slovan Bratislava), but I still wouldn't include him in this list. He is Czech.
His parents were Slovak, he feels more Slovak than Czech, and he was born in a border village when the two countries were the same country that was given to the Czech Republic when the two split. To me, that seems more Slovak than Czech, but maybe you know better since you're from there.

Nedomansky was also an inaugural member in the Slovak hockey HOF. Is he in the Czech Hockey HOF? (I can't find a list of members of that one).

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 09:56 AM
  #11
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
His parents were Slovak, he feels more Slovak than Czech, and he was born in a border village when the two countries were the same country that was given to the Czech Republic when the two split. To me, that seems more Slovak than Czech, but maybe you know better since you're from there.

Nedomansky was also an inaugural member in the Slovak hockey HOF. Is he in the Czech Hockey HOF? (I can't find a list of members of that one).
No idea how it is with the HOF. I am thinking he was included in the Slovak one because of his Slovan years, we can't really use that to judge anything.

For what it's worth, he speaks Czech.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 01:00 PM
  #12
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,823
vCash: 500
going back and forth between stastny and chara. leaning towards chara, which would have seemed really crazy even two years ago.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 01:23 PM
  #13
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
No idea how it is with the HOF. I am thinking he was included in the Slovak one because of his Slovan years, we can't really use that to judge anything.

For what it's worth, he speaks Czech.
Speaks czech, but considers himself Slovak - his own words. Slovak parents lived in Moravia.

#1 is Chara, Gretzky and Lemieux away, Stastny is "just" very good, maybe we can talk about some historical impact on NHL, european influence etc...again, Chara defined whole new type or concept of defensman, noone replicated yet (I mean such combination of height and skills). Chara is the best on his position for bunch of years arguably. Gretzky aside, we can't say it about Stastny


Last edited by begbeee: 01-26-2013 at 01:35 PM.
begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 02:21 PM
  #14
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,099
vCash: 500
Took Peter even with Chara being the best in the world at his position, or close to it for a couple of years, he really didn't do very much before age 23.

Defense is different than center so it's a hard comp.

Stastny has a very impressive career before 23 and was very good late in his career as well (8-5-4-9 line in the Olympics at age 37).

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 12:27 AM
  #15
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Speaks czech, but considers himself Slovak - his own words. Slovak parents lived in Moravia.

#1 is Chara, Gretzky and Lemieux away, Stastny is "just" very good, maybe we can talk about some historical impact on NHL, european influence etc...again, Chara defined whole new type or concept of defensman, noone replicated yet (I mean such combination of height and skills). Chara is the best on his position for bunch of years arguably. Gretzky aside, we can't say it about Stastny
Chara defined a new type of defenseman, by combination of size and skills?

Pronger had won the Hart with that recipe when Chara was still a slow-skating pylon in New York.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 02:50 AM
  #16
the edler
Inimitable
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yes and it's not really about removing Gretzky either, there were plenty of centres at and above Peters level.
I don't think "plenty" is the right word here, yes there was centers at and above Stastny like Trottier, Dionne or Messier but those guys are all bonafide Hall of Famers, Stastny was a top 6 scorer 6 times and scored the most points by any player in the 80s not Gretzky, and he missed some of his best years in the NHL as he came into the league at 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Probably Chara, as much as I dislike him. But he is the only Slovak who was the best at his position, at least for a short time.
I can see how you can like to make a case for Chara but he didn't do anything in the league in his first years with the Islanders and won his Norris and got his All Star selections in a pretty weak era for defensemen, it was pretty much an aging and a bit past his prime Lidström, an aging and a bit past his prime Pronger and then Duncan Keith, I think he would have looked a lot weaker in the early 90s against prime Bourque, Chelios and Leetch, or in the early 00s against prime Lidström and Pronger

Is Chara better than Scott Stevens because he's got a Norris and Stevens don't?

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 04:26 AM
  #17
alko
Registered User
 
alko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,770
vCash: 500
Im missing here Jozef "The Razor" Golonka!

alko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 04:54 AM
  #18
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Chara defined a new type of defenseman, by combination of size and skills?
Pronger had won the Hart with that recipe when Chara was still a slow-skating pylon in New York.
Yes, after Chara you have neverending list of examples Myers, Gill, Sutton... In his last season in New York Chara already put it together, stats doesnt say the whole story.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 07:57 AM
  #19
tony d
Thanks for memories
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,266
vCash: 500
Peter Statsny

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:39 AM
  #20
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,960
vCash: 500
International success in early age of Peter Stastny is in big picture comparable with success of Chara. Stastny has 2 golds from WC and final appearance from famous CC 1976 with arguably the third best national team and while he was not a dead weight by any means, Chara played a key role in his international appearances: 2 silvers from WC with teams which had no bussinnes to be there and fourth place from OG - Vancouver. That all with arguably the 6-8th best team in the world.

As for the argument that Chara was a pylon until his 23, let's not forget Stastny started to play NHL at age 24 (!) so his immediate succes has to be set into a context.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 09:42 AM
  #21
the edler
Inimitable
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,356
vCash: 500
It looks like we have a winner here, let's move on to #2

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.