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Old
01-26-2013, 04:00 AM
  #1
bigbadjohn
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take pity on noobs

so, people find this forum and post something. a simple question. no insult at all.

yet the response is so often an insult. i suppose it's good to toughen people up, but it also silences people. yeah, yeah, i hear the response "good."

other than insulting the OP, can you actually respond to the question or let the post die? are we all so desperate to show our snarky wit?

i bring this up because i just read where somone questioned if Seguin's time in Europe was good for him.

Seguin himself mentioned he's going to have to get used to not having the larger ice, etc.

Europe is clearly an offence first league and clearly not the NHL

in Europe, he excelled in those things that come natural to him. it didn't help him enhance the defensive skills that are integral to the Bruins' system. might it have had a negative effect? is it such a ridiculous question at his age and his circumstance? no one was suggested he be traded, etc. etc.

some expected him to come back from Europe and light it up. this poster questioned that assumption. time will tell.

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01-26-2013, 04:14 AM
  #2
MarshmontMcSlewfoot
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Its hard to control "tone" when writing over the internet (I guess you can yell and use caps lock but you know what I mean.)

If someone posts something that is flat out "wrong" there will be people correcting it. They probably don't mean to bully or belittle and are just adding their own (correct) opinion.

Heated debate is good, and better if there is an edge to it. I don't see many personal insults being slung around there's no reason to sugar coat disagreeing with someone.

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01-26-2013, 04:14 AM
  #3
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My feeling is honestly if you know the game and players well . The issue will not happen, that being said if you are some clown who blames the refs for losses or bias against your team. You come across as an idiot with no knowledge. I can confindently say one on one player knowledge............. bring it .

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:31 AM
  #4
bigbadjohn
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the post that i'm reacting to was mis-stated. it wasn't crazy. vezina trophy conversation today is clearly early, no matter your opinion. i love some delicious pie on those posts. but this was just a noob wondering, asking a question. and all he or she got back was snark and then the shut down.

no answer about why playing in a high scoring, non-hitting European leauge wouldn't hurt Seguin's game or development. just nonsense about kessel.

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01-26-2013, 05:01 AM
  #5
Son of Marshmont
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I think sometimes it's a simple matter of phrasing.

"Did Playing in Switzerland Ruin Seguin's Development" is a pretty devastating headline topic. I think anyone with a grasp of hockey knowledge understands that two months of playing in a different system is not going to completely dismantle the talents of a very talented, up and coming star. "Ruin" implies Seguin's career is ovah.

Now, perhaps "Can Seguin's slow start be attributed to his time in the Swiss League?" is probably is a better way of inviting reasoned discussion. It's more open-ended and less incendiary.

Part of that is reading and taking in the kind of responses one sees to similar questions posed throughout the board.

I remember when I was a kid, my mom always told me to listen first, and then talk. That's sort of a good rule of thumb. Figure out what language the locals speak so you can be understood when you talk to them.

Indeed, there's a helpful way to do it and a not-so-helpful way. It is the internet. There's a degree of arseholery in every corner.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:15 AM
  #6
bigbadjohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmont Flavor View Post
I think sometimes it's a simple matter of phrasing.

"Did Playing in Switzerland Ruin Seguin's Development" is a pretty devastating headline topic. I think anyone with a grasp of hockey knowledge understands that two months of playing in a different system is not going to completely dismantle the talents of a very talented, up and coming star. "Ruin" implies Seguin's career is ovah.

Now, perhaps "Can Seguin's slow start be attributed to his time in the Swiss League?" is probably is a better way of inviting reasoned discussion. It's more open-ended and less incendiary.

Part of that is reading and taking in the kind of responses one sees to similar questions posed throughout the board.

I remember when I was a kid, my mom always told me to listen first, and then talk. That's sort of a good rule of thumb. Figure out what language the locals speak so you can be understood when you talk to them.

Indeed, there's a helpful way to do it and a not-so-helpful way. It is the internet. There's a degree of arseholery in every corner.

forgive my response: best response ever.

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01-26-2013, 05:19 AM
  #7
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Amen to this! I started a topic the other day and my thinking was that Chris Bourque was getting odd, preferential treatment from Claude including PP and SO as well as a questionable regular shift.

I was laughed at, had my sanity questioned and even accused of having an agenda against Chris Bourque, a young man that I've never even met!

I expected some of this treatment and have noticed that the board is a little "cliquey", if you will. I really am enjoying it so far despite this and have become quite addicted to reading the overall vast knowledge of the folks on this board in general.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:20 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadjohn View Post
so, people find this forum and post something. a simple question. no insult at all.

yet the response is so often an insult. i suppose it's good to toughen people up, but it also silences people. yeah, yeah, i hear the response "good."

other than insulting the OP, can you actually respond to the question or let the post die? are we all so desperate to show our snarky wit?

i bring this up because i just read where somone questioned if Seguin's time in Europe was good for him.

Seguin himself mentioned he's going to have to get used to not having the larger ice, etc.

Europe is clearly an offence first league and clearly not the NHL

in Europe, he excelled in those things that come natural to him. it didn't help him enhance the defensive skills that are integral to the Bruins' system. might it have had a negative effect? is it such a ridiculous question at his age and his circumstance? no one was suggested he be traded, etc. etc.

some expected him to come back from Europe and light it up. this poster questioned that assumption. time will tell.
Yep. Europe is definitely not the NHL.

What's that even supposed to mean ?

And of course there are no hits in Europe.

That's why the DEL, for example, had to crack down on headshots recently because more and more players out with concussions really became a concerning issue.

Well, people find this forum and post something. Indeed.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:37 AM
  #9
Son of Marshmont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushhawg View Post
Amen to this! I started a topic the other day and my thinking was that Chris Bourque was getting odd, preferential treatment from Claude including PP and SO as well as a questionable regular shift.

I was laughed at, had my sanity questioned and even accused of having an agenda against Chris Bourque, a young man that I've never even met!

I expected some of this treatment and have noticed that the board is a little "cliquey", if you will. I really am enjoying it so far despite this and have become quite addicted to reading the overall vast knowledge of the folks on this board in general.
In the spirit of fairness, in that thread you accused Claude, and by extension, the Bruins organization, of "having an agenda" no? Ray Bourque using his influence to generate roster decisions?

Again, it's with phrasing. Question Bourque the younger's abilities, fine. People can discuss that with opinions and bring facts, stats, situations to back it up, and there was a lot of that done in that thread by both sides.

The conspiracy theory thing's a little too wacky and none of us have any way of determining if it's even a shadow of the truth....unless 'ol 77 is posting among us. Statements like that are going to draw the ire of some because it's inflammatory by nature.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:39 AM
  #10
Shadowthrone
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So what's the nonsense in it? Feel free to explain....


Last edited by smithformeragent: 01-26-2013 at 06:58 AM. Reason: mod
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Old
01-26-2013, 05:46 AM
  #11
DaveFromNB
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With respect, this is the kind of snarky response you just created a thread about. You attacked the poster, not the content. If you don't like peoples responses, either don't respond, put them on your ignore list, or much better, send them a private note.


Last edited by smithformeragent: 01-26-2013 at 06:57 AM. Reason: mod
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Old
01-26-2013, 06:57 AM
  #12
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I agree with the overall sentiment in the OP, and the response by Marshmontflavor. However, we need to keep in mind that new members are not instantly aware of how this place works. Let's avoid picking on the newbies and scaring them away. We've all started threads or made posts that make sense to us, only go get laughed at. It's not fun.

Think twice, or three times before starting a new topic.

When in doubt, use an existing thread like the GDT. This is a great place to vent about your frustration with certain players, calls, etc.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation other than poking fun at another user, just don't post.



At the end of the day, the vast majority come for intelligent hockey talk.

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:03 AM
  #13
ODAAT
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I`m not a newbie but I`ve been guilty more than once or twice of posting a new thread/responding to something without thinking, to not afford someone new to the boards the luxuries that most afforded me when I jumped on board would be a tad disrespectful.

I often disagree with some longtime/solid and knowledgeable posters, just because we may disagree, by responding with respect, backing points of view up with reason, these boards and the conversations remain strong.

When the mud slingin/name calling begins, and I`ve gotten caught up with it on a few occasions, that`s when this place turns a touch ugly. I`ve also learned that the "ignore" option is one of my best friends too

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:04 AM
  #14
ODAAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
I agree with the overall sentiment in the OP, and the response by Marshmontflavor. However, we need to keep in mind that new members are not instantly aware of how this place works. Let's avoid picking on the newbies and scaring them away. We've all started threads or made posts that make sense to us, only go get laughed at. It's not fun.

Think twice, or three times before starting a new topic.

When in doubt, use an existing thread like the GDT. This is a great place to vent about your frustration with certain players, calls, etc.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation other than poking fun at another user, just don't post.



At the end of the day, the vast majority come for intelligent hockey talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:06 AM
  #15
Kovi
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Hi. this thread needs a girl.


try to show love...
but when you put something out in public forums, you have to expect all kinds of responses.
do your research, be a good writer and a good poster. (there are some fine writers here that you can emulate....Dom, MMB, Kaos, Lonnie, Lou, LG, Artemis and a few more)

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:41 AM
  #16
Killerbeez
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Has it ever been considered to have noobs be members for 30 days before posting? Maybe 30 days is too long, but having been on here a long time and watched person after person come on, post, get dumped on (often deserving it), retaliate, and get banned, maybe there should be time where the training wheels are on for folks to listen, watch and learn before they get the keys to the kingdom. Only a thought.

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:43 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbeez View Post
Has it ever been considered to have noobs be members for 30 days before posting? Maybe 30 days is too long, but having been on here a long time and watched person after person come on, post, get dumped on (often deserving it), retaliate, and get banned, maybe there should be time where the training wheels are on for folks to listen, watch and learn before they get the keys to the kingdom. Only a thought.
The mentor program we're looking at involves rookie posters moving in with some of the more seasoned veterans for a week. They will eat what they eat, sleep when they sleep and watch what they post. Then they will get limited posting privileges (4th line minutes) until they earn the coach's trust.

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:58 AM
  #18
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I just want people to use the existing threads when they are the most relevant. And to read the existing threads (at least the first and last pages of those threads) hat look to be relevant before posting a new topic. Giant pet peeve of mine and all those new threads push similar, often more involved threads off of the first page.

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01-26-2013, 08:02 AM
  #19
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Great post.

Being just above soccer fans, in the US (we may be slipping along a curve with immigration numbers), we really should have a little more patience with people.

*puts on tap shoes*

This could eventually come to a rather ugly head if we get an influx of local fans due an aspiring young goaltender who happens to be of a pigment not the overall norm for hockey.

*takes off tap shoes*

I think the simplest adjustment is "Don't flaunt your knowledge, share it."

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:05 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushhawg View Post
Amen to this! I started a topic the other day and my thinking was that Chris Bourque was getting odd, preferential treatment from Claude including PP and SO as well as a questionable regular shift.

I was laughed at, had my sanity questioned and even accused of having an agenda against Chris Bourque, a young man that I've never even met!

I expected some of this treatment and have noticed that the board is a little "cliquey", if you will. I really am enjoying it so far despite this and have become quite addicted to reading the overall vast knowledge of the folks on this board in general.
In all fairness, I don't think you were laughed at or accused of anything because you were new; it happened because you started your thread with a strongly worded comment (a "disturbing trend", after 2 games), and then pointed out the "too many shifts" (after a game in which he was 9th in ice time, pretty standard for a 3rd liner) and the PP time (even though Chiarelli had directly stated that they liked Bourque on the PP because he's a left-handed shot) ... you then said that you feared that Ray was influencing the way Chris was being treated.

You could be brand new here, or be the first ever member, and a thread like that is going to get called out.

I don't think this board is especially harsh on new members - it's harsh on posters that make questionable posts. There are posters that have only been here for a year or less and get along well with anyone; on the other hand, there were posters that are/were here for a long time that are/were constantly getting questioned.

EDIT: and I just read the thread that I believe caused this proposal thread to be born: no one mocked the poster, they mocked the post.


Last edited by the overrated: 01-26-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 08:18 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbeez View Post
Has it ever been considered to have noobs be members for 30 days before posting? Maybe 30 days is too long, but having been on here a long time and watched person after person come on, post, get dumped on (often deserving it), retaliate, and get banned, maybe there should be time where the training wheels are on for folks to listen, watch and learn before they get the keys to the kingdom. Only a thought.
I've played in forums where noobs are moderated for a month, or their first 100 posts, stuff like that. Their posts don't see the forum unless a mod clears it. Could be helpful.

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:20 AM
  #22
Kovi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieMoto View Post
I've played in forums where noobs are moderated for a month, or their first 100 posts, stuff like that. Their posts don't see the forum unless a mod clears it. Could be helpful.
I thought we use to have that?

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:26 AM
  #23
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The problem i see comes from lazy posters that don't read...
They just start a stupid thread for the sake of it. posting out loud with out THINKING.

Then there the posters like the Tuukka for Vezina thread that the only goal is to create a new thread and see their name on the front page, 95% is just junk...they dont care and keep polluting the board.

You have a question? read the threads and 99% of the time you will have your answer.

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:32 AM
  #24
Kovi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushhawg View Post

I expected some of this treatment and have noticed that the board is a little "cliquey", if you will.
cliquey? you're new to a board where people have been members for years. I would expect you would treat this like any social situation. you'd politely ease in and act respectable. If you were in a bar with a new group of people, would you start flexing your muscles and talking loudly and over everyone? no.

and yes, a lot of people here do know each other quite well. But that doesnt mean there isnt room for more well thought, well researched discussions. you've learned very quickly that people are serious about the sport here. Believe me, I am a girl following a predominantly guy's sport. ...you do not come into a discussion without somewhat knowing your sh it. you will get eaten alive.

So, rule to live by: Be polite. be respectful. show that you are a true fan with lots of knowledge. you'll do just fine-and I am looking forward to your posts.

ps. maybe that fact that you "expected" to be treated badly lead you to get that treatment. expect more for yourself and you'll be treated just fine.

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Old
01-26-2013, 09:05 AM
  #25
bigbadjohn
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you must be reading the wrong thread.



Quote:
Originally Posted by the overrated View Post

EDIT: and I just read the thread that I believe caused this proposal thread to be born: no one mocked the poster, they mocked the post.

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