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01-25-2013, 02:40 PM
  #176
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The Bruins PP, including controlled entry w/ possession, in NOT their strong suit. They dump it in on the PP more than any other team I watch. Not a huge strong point 5 v 5 either. 9 times out of 10, they're going to dump it and grind it out. Subban gives you more than a shot, he gives you options. Chara has a shot, what good is it when you can hardly establish possession half the time? Subban brings you mobility, offensive acumen and instincts from the back end, and speed. It's been so long since we had someone like him, people seem to not remember what it looks like.

You're right. Not going to happen, therefore not wasting the energy arguing a/b it.

He's not my type of player at all, not that I don't recognize what he brings to the table, but I don't think he'd fit here at all.

I don't think CJ would change it up with him or someone similar here. He's not just going to say "do your thing" it's not how this club operates, they say "just do our thing" or see ya later.

For as much as the PP isn't scoring this year, I think it looks a lot better than last year. I think the goals will come, it's nice to see Hamilton out there keeping the puck in at the blue line. Seguin controlling the puck and guys actually in front of the net.

I think they've had good entries, for the most part.

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01-25-2013, 02:56 PM
  #177
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no we wouldn't, Marchand is great, I hate when people make that statement, Marchand gets it, he answers the bell, he fits as a Bruin, he singlehandedly has carried the team when the tough needed to rise above.... people making statements like that don't really understand and see the whole picture

comparing the two is ridiculous

what I don't think you adding to the equation is the leadership that Marchand was brought into the NHL with vs. what Subban had. swap them as rookies and put Marchand on the habs with that leadership and what has been a circus for a few years in management as well and he is not the same player he is today.

Do the same with Subban. If he comes in as a rookie with Z and PB leading the way he is not the player he is today either.

A lot depends on the environment they are taught in and currently play in. We have seen many players over the years change their "attitude" and approach to the game when they change teams.

happens all the time.

just because people see it differntly then you does not mean the don't understand or see the whole picture. You are not 100% right black and white and neither is the other side. eveyone opinion is just that their opinion. The only way we would know who was right is if he was traded here and we got to actually see it.

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01-25-2013, 04:52 PM
  #178
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If I am going to take a side in this dispute between the Habs and PK, I am siding with the Habs. Good on Bergevin and the Habs on not overpaying for this clown. He's a 3 slotter on a crappy D-core and should be paid like one. On a team like Boston, he'd be 5-6'er with some PP time.

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01-25-2013, 05:21 PM
  #179
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The return of Markov killed PK's leverage. IMO, Markov makes Subban nothing special even for the Habs. I can't stand the dirty diver, but Markov is pretty legit on the PP.

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01-25-2013, 05:34 PM
  #180
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Meehan and Bergevin meeting is over, PK will take the week end to think about the offer.

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01-25-2013, 07:36 PM
  #181
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Lol the subban marchand picture is a new low. Even for this site. Wowsers

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01-26-2013, 07:46 AM
  #182
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Little or no progress made in PK Subban contract negotiations. Habs firm on 2 year deal, roughly $5 mil total. Offer sheet? Trade? Options.

someone should offer 5 years 20m

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01-26-2013, 08:53 AM
  #183
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Little or no progress made in PK Subban contract negotiations. Habs firm on 2 year deal, roughly $5 mil total. Offer sheet? Trade? Options.

someone should offer 5 years 20m
I think $4.25M for four years.

That (to me) makes sense.

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01-26-2013, 09:32 AM
  #184
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that make me ILL to see how PK is OVERATED here !
he make hundreds of errors in his zone, he is a CANCER in the room, and he is not at all that good on pp, even ex-coach and analyst Michel Bergeron said habs are BETTER team without him and should TRADE him
PK is a spectacular CLOWN , weak in his zone and he see himself as a superstar and don't care at all for the team and nobody can CLOSE his immense mouth !!!!
even for free, i don't want to see him put the bruins jersey in dirt !!!!

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01-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #185
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They should trade him to Boston.
ummm no he is a cancer, his locker room antics are bad his attitude is bad and hell punch someone in the face and run away like a whimp!

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01-26-2013, 12:27 PM
  #186
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Before we say in our locker room he would change- the Habs had Hal Gill ( who has a lot of respect around the league) as his menor and the impact on PK was negligible. PK is a talent but only thinks of himself and has no respect for the game.

PASS

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01-26-2013, 10:10 PM
  #187
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You see it in sports time and time again -- players tend to conform to the overall culture of the team and the coaches. I think that the Bruins' locker room and team culture is strong enough that a guy like Subban would not be allowed to be a cancer on the team. I also think that PK would mature and improve a great deal on the Bruins. No wonder he sometimes comes off as being a punk and is a diver -- look who he plays for. That kind of crap is part of the culture on that team.

Subban has ridiculous upside and generally plays really hard. I would more than welcome him on the Bruins if we could get him for a reasonable price. I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to have him as well. If I were a betting man I would wager that he would become a bit of a fan favorite at Boston and would toughen up real quick and cut out the stupidity he has shown in Montreal.

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01-26-2013, 10:15 PM
  #188
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the canadiens should sign him because they need him. 2 years 5 million is a joke offer. he should get 4 at 3.5-4m. Wouldn't mind his snap shot on the Bruins PP though. believe it or not i think he is pretty well liked by the bruins off the ice and would fit in the locker room. would he fit in with the town, thats another story.

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01-26-2013, 10:34 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Montecristo View Post
the canadiens should sign him because they need him. 2 years 5 million is a joke offer. he should get 4 at 3.5-4m. Wouldn't mind his snap shot on the Bruins PP though. believe it or not i think he is pretty well liked by the bruins off the ice and would fit in the locker room. would he fit in with the town, thats another story.
all righty then.

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01-26-2013, 10:34 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by missingchicklet View Post
You see it in sports time and time again -- players tend to conform to the overall culture of the team and the coaches. I think that the Bruins' locker room and team culture is strong enough that a guy like Subban would not be allowed to be a cancer on the team. I also think that PK would mature and improve a great deal on the Bruins. No wonder he sometimes comes off as being a punk and is a diver -- look who he plays for. That kind of crap is part of the culture on that team.

Subban has ridiculous upside and generally plays really hard. I would more than welcome him on the Bruins if we could get him for a reasonable price. I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to have him as well. If I were a betting man I would wager that he would become a bit of a fan favorite at Boston and would toughen up real quick and cut out the stupidity he has shown in Montreal.
Here's the problem I have with that.

IF the Bruins picked up Subban at this moment, via trade or offer sheet, they would have to drop a defenseman, either Ference, Boychuk or McQuaid. All of whom played key roles in the Stanley Cup playoffs. All of whom are stalwarts in the locker room and on the ice. All of whom would not and have not hesitated a second to come to a teammate's defense, even, in the case of Ference (who wears the "A" for good reason), when his opponent is bigger and stronger. Not to mention that they're pretty good defensemen. Not great, but solid.

So, you want to dump one of those guys and bring in Subban, who, during a game in said playoffs, made Patrice Bergeron literally shake his head and roll his eyes in disgust? Perhaps he's leaped to the defense of a teammate a few times, but I've never seen it. I'm sure he's not a bad person, but I've never heard his teammates praise him as Bruins teammates have praised Ference, Boychuk or McQuaid.

Now, if Subban was a stupendous talent, a young Nick Lidstrom, perhaps you say, OK, we'll live with it. It's worth shaking up the core of this team and rattling the locker room by shipping out a teammate because he's just too good to pass up. But IMHO, he isn't that good. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not a superstar.

In some sports, a GM doesn't concern himself with such things. But in hockey, chemistry matters. It's not bringing in Subban that would be the sole problem, it's watching a teammate get dumped to do so that would upset the apple cart.

IF Subban was a free agent, and IF by some quirk there was an opening on the Bruins' defense, signing him would probably be worth a shot. But he isn't, there isn't, and that's why I don't want him on this team.

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01-26-2013, 11:44 PM
  #191
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all righty then.
because bruins fans hate him..

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01-27-2013, 12:04 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by missingchicklet View Post
You see it in sports time and time again -- players tend to conform to the overall culture of the team and the coaches. I think that the Bruins' locker room and team culture is strong enough that a guy like Subban would not be allowed to be a cancer on the team. I also think that PK would mature and improve a great deal on the Bruins. No wonder he sometimes comes off as being a punk and is a diver -- look who he plays for. That kind of crap is part of the culture on that team.

Subban has ridiculous upside and generally plays really hard. I would more than welcome him on the Bruins if we could get him for a reasonable price. I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to have him as well. If I were a betting man I would wager that he would become a bit of a fan favorite at Boston and would toughen up real quick and cut out the stupidity he has shown in Montreal.
Perhaps I'm one of the few who feels this way but suppose Lucic were on the habs, do you think he'd dive? Do you think Lucic would not fight? I think he'd be the same and appreciated for it.

I think too much is said on the organization and not the individual. PK is PK. PK is not a fighter and doesn't want to be. I don't think the bruins would change him at all. At best they'd make him a little more aware of his perception in that regard. People don't suddenly change at 20+ years old without some crazy experience occuring.

To be honest, I'm 6'4 and a pretty big guy and if I were a hockey player I'd hit just like PK if I could and if someone challenged me after a clean hit I'd refuse to fight. If someone challenged me after I ****ed up, if I'm not already apologizing to the guy I gave an accidental cheapshot too then yes, i'll fight if I need to. PK kinda has that mentality too, obviously it's based on his own perception of when he should or should not fight, that's the issue really. He's always said he'll fight if he has too but won't get dragged into a fight if he doesn't feel he should be fighting.

For example, when he gave marchand a clean hit a while back. A few guys wanted to get him, Subban refused. If it were me I would do the exact same thing because nothing wrong with the hit.

To be clear, I'm just talking for the sake of discussion. No one should feel I'm insulting the bruins or wtv. It's more of a philosophical discussion than anything else so we may not agree but that's normal and that is the point.

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01-27-2013, 01:39 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Perhaps I'm one of the few who feels this way but suppose Lucic were on the habs, do you think he'd dive? Do you think Lucic would not fight? I think he'd be the same and appreciated for it.

I think too much is said on the organization and not the individual. PK is PK. PK is not a fighter and doesn't want to be. I don't think the bruins would change him at all. At best they'd make him a little more aware of his perception in that regard. People don't suddenly change at 20+ years old without some crazy experience occuring.

To be honest, I'm 6'4 and a pretty big guy and if I were a hockey player I'd hit just like PK if I could and if someone challenged me after a clean hit I'd refuse to fight. If someone challenged me after I ****ed up, if I'm not already apologizing to the guy I gave an accidental cheapshot too then yes, i'll fight if I need to. PK kinda has that mentality too, obviously it's based on his own perception of when he should or should not fight, that's the issue really. He's always said he'll fight if he has too but won't get dragged into a fight if he doesn't feel he should be fighting.

For example, when he gave marchand a clean hit a while back. A few guys wanted to get him, Subban refused. If it were me I would do the exact same thing because nothing wrong with the hit.

To be clear, I'm just talking for the sake of discussion. No one should feel I'm insulting the bruins or wtv. It's more of a philosophical discussion than anything else so we may not agree but that's normal and that is the point.
I'm not sure I should touch this one cause its easily taken the wrong way so i'll say 2 comments

Agree about clean hits shouldn't always lead to fights ...

Not a good example if were thinking of the same hit ? jumping back spashes is not part of hockey this is why you got a huge reaction out of the bruins

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01-27-2013, 01:52 PM
  #194
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I'm not sure I should touch this one cause its easily taken the wrong way so i'll say 2 comments

Agree about clean hits shouldn't always lead to fights ...

Not a good example if were thinking of the same hit ? jumping back spashes is not part of hockey this is why you got a huge reaction out of the bruins
It's not meant to be taken the wrong way. It's actually giving credit to players like Lucic for who they are rather than saying an organization made them. Also, Subban is sometimes immature because he's immature, that's what I meant.

As for the hit. Hitting with your back isn't against the rules nor dirty at all. I guess i'll get some disagreement on that but may I ask why it would be deemed dirty or cheap? I've never thought of it that way but then again, I'm also looking from a different perspective.

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01-27-2013, 02:50 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
It's not meant to be taken the wrong way. It's actually giving credit to players like Lucic for who they are rather than saying an organization made them. Also, Subban is sometimes immature because he's immature, that's what I meant.

As for the hit. Hitting with your back isn't against the rules nor dirty at all. I guess i'll get some disagreement on that but may I ask why it would be deemed dirty or cheap? I've never thought of it that way but then again, I'm also looking from a different perspective.
I understand it's not in the rule book .. but why would it be ?? who has done it before ? I'd kinda say its similar to Avery on Brodeur BUT not as worse !! ( unless he jumped )

it was a reckless play cause subban lost his man IMO ... I'd need to watch it again but swore PK left his feet too... witch there strapping down on

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01-27-2013, 03:17 PM
  #196
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Before we say in our locker room he would change- the Habs had Hal Gill ( who has a lot of respect around the league) as his menor and the impact on PK was negligible.
I don't think it is just who his mentor is, but also who is coaching and the general view from the coaching staff.

Julien is not Martin. I think the Habs as a team encouraged diving as a way to draw a PP because the team was very dependent on them for success. Just look at the playoff series in 2011-the Bruins won that series without a single PP goal but the Habs wouldn't have made it to a game 7 without the PP.

That said-it doesn't bother me that PK doesn't really want to fight. PK's game is the defensive version of Marchand's. He is far more about agitating and getting a player off his game than being tough and fighting.

However if he were on the Bruins somebody in that locker room would pull him aside like they did Marchand to tell him to agitate and they would generally have his back, but he was going to have to drop them if needed. Marchand hasn't been in tons of NHL fights, but he has fought.

PK is a player I am unwilling to trade for at this point, but he isn't even close to the players on my "I don't ever want to see them in black and gold" list. As a matter of fact PK for me is kind of like Pronger (before his injury) or Hartnell for me. Players I can't stand but I am pretty sure I would like if they were on my team.

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01-27-2013, 03:20 PM
  #197
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Oh and if I am the Habs, I would still seek to keep him. Markov hasn't been healthy for two years. I wouldn't run off to the bank expecting healthy and letting PK go (he is a key part of their PP). Finding the compromise might be tough, but unless they have a good deal on the table letting him go may bite them more than paying him something close to what he is asking.

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01-27-2013, 03:28 PM
  #198
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Here's the problem I have with that.

IF the Bruins picked up Subban at this moment, via trade or offer sheet, they would have to drop a defenseman, either Ference, Boychuk or McQuaid. All of whom played key roles in the Stanley Cup playoffs. All of whom are stalwarts in the locker room and on the ice. All of whom would not and have not hesitated a second to come to a teammate's defense, even, in the case of Ference (who wears the "A" for good reason), when his opponent is bigger and stronger. Not to mention that they're pretty good defensemen. Not great, but solid.

So, you want to dump one of those guys and bring in Subban, who, during a game in said playoffs, made Patrice Bergeron literally shake his head and roll his eyes in disgust? Perhaps he's leaped to the defense of a teammate a few times, but I've never seen it. I'm sure he's not a bad person, but I've never heard his teammates praise him as Bruins teammates have praised Ference, Boychuk or McQuaid.

Now, if Subban was a stupendous talent, a young Nick Lidstrom, perhaps you say, OK, we'll live with it. It's worth shaking up the core of this team and rattling the locker room by shipping out a teammate because he's just too good to pass up. But IMHO, he isn't that good. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not a superstar.

In some sports, a GM doesn't concern himself with such things. But in hockey, chemistry matters. It's not bringing in Subban that would be the sole problem, it's watching a teammate get dumped to do so that would upset the apple cart.

IF Subban was a free agent, and IF by some quirk there was an opening on the Bruins' defense, signing him would probably be worth a shot. But he isn't, there isn't, and that's why I don't want him on this team.
Bravo. Very well done. Great post.

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01-27-2013, 04:09 PM
  #199
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I understand it's not in the rule book .. but why would it be ?? who has done it before ? I'd kinda say its similar to Avery on Brodeur BUT not as worse !! ( unless he jumped )

it was a reckless play cause subban lost his man IMO ... I'd need to watch it again but swore PK left his feet too... witch there strapping down on
Subban didn't jump. No more than going off the ground off any hit really.

I still don't see whats wrong with it. No hit to the head, no crosscheck, no stick or elbow or anything. Subban didn't really lose his man because Marchand was his man.

Again, it's not meant to entice anyone. I didn't expect the topic to shift to the hit itself really.

I was more focusing on praising the individual more than saying mentors and all that. I brought up Lucic to say even in his junior days he was a fierce competitor and a fighter. I believe he built on that into a top power forward in the game. I think his worth ethic and rare combination of skills gave him that and I think it's better to give him credit for his impact rather than someone else. Simply put, I'm giving players like that praises more than anything else.

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01-28-2013, 07:00 PM
  #200
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Well I think Montreal got him for a very good price. 2 years $2.875 per. I was sure he would get $4m.

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