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Wii U: Nintendo's Next Generation Console Part 2

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01-23-2013, 09:05 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
quick recap:
  • system updates in the spring and summer to improve load times & add miiverse features
  • Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta coming along
  • LoZ:Wind Waker coming to the U
  • new Yoshi game
  • Wii Fit tied into miiverse
  • new title from Xenoblade's developer

I'm looking forward to Wind Waker, though I hope a remake isn't a $60 title. I'm a bit late to the Zelda stuff, as I couldn't get into it as a kid, but really enjoy the games as play them now.

And I just want the Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 titles more than before.
Given that it's a full on remake, and not just the GameCube rendered in HD, I'd expect it will cost money.

They're even going into the game and making changes.

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01-23-2013, 09:15 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Given that it's a full on remake, and not just the GameCube rendered in HD, I'd expect it will cost money.

They're even going into the game and making changes.
I'm hoping for $50. $10 doesn't sound like a lot, but it's potentially enough to make me okay with it, and maybe say, "well, I'm buying it for the kid."

If it's $60, depending on what else is out at the time...I don't know. I think I'd lean more towards a wholly new and original title.

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01-23-2013, 09:25 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm hoping for $50. $10 doesn't sound like a lot, but it's potentially enough to make me okay with it, and maybe say, "well, I'm buying it for the kid."

If it's $60, depending on what else is out at the time...I don't know. I think I'd lean more towards a wholly new and original title.
Well, they did say they were doing that too. Sounds multiplayer as well.

Wind Waker HD btw:


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01-23-2013, 10:03 AM
  #54
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Looks like i'll finally get the perfect reason to give a serious shot to Wind Waker...

I'll always give a Zelda the benefit of the doubt but i can't hide how much Skyward Sword was a huge letdown for me, probably the biggest letdown in my life for a video game i was looking forward to

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01-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BeBen View Post

Looks like i'll finally get the perfect reason to give a serious shot to Wind Waker...

I'll always give a Zelda the benefit of the doubt but i can't hide how much Skyward Sword was a huge letdown for me, probably the biggest letdown in my life for a video game i was looking forward to
Windwaker was a solid game with a few disappointments, namely that there are only 3 post-mastersword dungeons and there's a portion in the late game where the pad it out with ruby collection. It would also be nice if there were more larger sized islands to explore.

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01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
  #56
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Some great stuff from today. Glad to hear that a new Mario game for the Wii U will be at E3, Nintendo's software lineup at E3 should be interesting.

I just want to know what Retro Studios is up to at this point. A new Metroid for the Wii U would developed by them would be pretty much a system seller for me at this point (but I think the last rumor I heard was that they were working on some sort of Star Fox game if I remember correctly).

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01-23-2013, 07:23 PM
  #57
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Yoshi's Epic Yarn? Might be cool.

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01-23-2013, 07:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Yoshi's Epic Yarn? Might be cool.
It's a bit different, seems to be more focused on a crochet motif rather than yarn, but, similar enough!

And no thanks to Retro being anywhere near Metroid..they are almost as bad as Team Ninja.

ALL Nintendo has to do in the Metroid realm is announced Super Metroid HD...then go back to the drawing board and finish Metroid Dread

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01-23-2013, 07:59 PM
  #59
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I'm still just looking forward to Pikmin and Monster Hunter.

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01-23-2013, 09:33 PM
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Great news although nothing too surprising other than the Yoshi game. The only reason I keep getting Nintendo's consoles are the first party games. It would be very tough to just have an Xbox and not be able to play Mario and Zelda anymore. It's just too bad New Super Mario U is the only game I'll be playing for a while.

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01-23-2013, 10:10 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bizarro Bandwagoner View Post
Great news although nothing too surprising other than the Yoshi game. The only reason I keep getting Nintendo's consoles are the first party games. It would be very tough to just have an Xbox and not be able to play Mario and Zelda anymore. It's just too bad New Super Mario U is the only game I'll be playing for a while.
The surprises were actually Xenoblade 2 and SMT x Fire Emblem. Nintendo had a massive leak the day he Wii U launched and so Yoshi was known, just like we know both Metroid and Donkey Kong are on the way for the Wii U. Oh, also, Wii U has secured a Metal Gear Solid game, but no ones sure which yet.

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01-23-2013, 11:08 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
It's a bit different, seems to be more focused on a crochet motif rather than yarn, but, similar enough!

And no thanks to Retro being anywhere near Metroid..they are almost as bad as Team Ninja.

ALL Nintendo has to do in the Metroid realm is announced Super Metroid HD...then go back to the drawing board and finish Metroid Dread
Metroid Prime > Super Metroid. Yeah, I said it.

Retro's doing something original though.

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01-23-2013, 11:33 PM
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Metroid Prime > Super Metroid. Yeah, I said it.

Retro's doing something original though.
Metroid Prime = perfect evolution of Super Metroid.

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01-24-2013, 04:08 AM
  #64
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Metrod Prime was fine gameplay wise, but did nothing to progress the story until game 3. That's the bigger problem. Also, not very popular in Japan as the sidescrollers.

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01-24-2013, 05:37 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Bizarro Bandwagoner View Post
Great news although nothing too surprising other than the Yoshi game. The only reason I keep getting Nintendo's consoles are the first party games. It would be very tough to just have an Xbox and not be able to play Mario and Zelda anymore. It's just too bad New Super Mario U is the only game I'll be playing for a while.
If you like old school Resident Evil games you should give ZombiU a try.

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01-24-2013, 05:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
It's a bit different, seems to be more focused on a crochet motif rather than yarn, but, similar enough!

And no thanks to Retro being anywhere near Metroid..they are almost as bad as Team Ninja.

ALL Nintendo has to do in the Metroid realm is announced Super Metroid HD...then go back to the drawing board and finish Metroid Dread
It wasn't Team Ninja that ruined Other M, it was Sakamoto.

I also agree with SK13 that Metroid Prime is better than Super Metroid. It still blows my mind that game is 10 years old already.

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01-24-2013, 06:07 PM
  #67
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If you like old school Resident Evil games you should give ZombiU a try.
Hated any Resident Evil game I played.

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01-24-2013, 11:15 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
It's a bit different, seems to be more focused on a crochet motif rather than yarn, but, similar enough!

And no thanks to Retro being anywhere near Metroid..they are almost as bad as Team Ninja.

ALL Nintendo has to do in the Metroid realm is announced Super Metroid HD...then go back to the drawing board and finish Metroid Dread
WTF did I just read.


The only reason Nintendo should keep Retro from Metroid is so they can develop a new IP.

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01-25-2013, 06:49 AM
  #69
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WTF did I just read.


The only reason Nintendo should keep Retro from Metroid is so they can develop a new IP.
Well.... Retro lost a lot of it's key employees from the Prime era and added a lot of guys from Crytek, Naughty Dog, Vigil, etc. I suspect they'll be adding more Vigil guys now that Vigil is dead (they're both based in Austin, Texas).

They're probably more fit to develop an action/shooter type right now than a Metroid game.

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01-25-2013, 07:08 AM
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Well.... Retro lost a lot of it's key employees from the Prime era and added a lot of guys from Crytek, Naughty Dog, Vigil, etc. I suspect they'll be adding more Vigil guys now that Vigil is dead (they're both based in Austin, Texas).

They're probably more fit to develop an action/shooter type right now than a Metroid game.
This.

They've never been good at making a Metroid game, although they did an admirable job. They were much better at Donkey Kong.

Prime 1 has great gameplay but "meh" story, Prime 2 is just pretty awful all round and 3 improved the story and was kinda neat, but didnt really advance the series.

That's my main issue with the Prime trilogy, they are decent to great games in their own right, but do absolutely nothing for the Metroid story and unless Retro keeps working on the series, everyone's just going to pretend they never happened storyline wise anyways.

Nintendo needs to build on the main Metroid > Metroid 2 > Super Metroid > Metroid fusion arc and stop screwing with fans.

I like other M for what it was, an attempt to do something different. But Samus character is really misplaced (the serial killer thing was strange, Samus' post traumatic stress at seeing Ridley despite the fact that she's killed him between then and when he killed her parents makes no sense, and Ingrid Berman and Adam were oddly not like how they are supposed to be).

I know Sakimoto is largely to blame for the story, but its not as if the gameplay is flawless either (particularly the visor pixel hunts) and team ninja tends to do visual style over substance, which is a completely weird thing to do for a space horror adventure game that's not really about combat.

Nintendo has been pretty clueless what to do with Sammy since Yokoi's death, but they have added interesting plot threads (like the first character to be romantically interested in Samus is a female) but Nintendo as a whole seems to really struggle writing material for adults only. The closest they came was Twilight Princess, but even then they kind of skimped out on a lot. They really need their own version of Naughty Dog to handle Samus (a developer that does action, plat forming and puzzles all pretty admirably, while also doing strong character work).

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01-25-2013, 01:20 PM
  #71
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This.

They've never been good at making a Metroid game, although they did an admirable job. They were much better at Donkey Kong.

I don't think you'll find many people that would agree that Retro was never good at making Metroid. Prime 1 may have reduced Samus' agility as a result of being first person (which was Miyamoto's decision), but other than that, Retro perfectly handled Metroid's transition to 3D.

Prime 1 has great gameplay but "meh" story, Prime 2 is just pretty awful all round and 3 improved the story and was kinda neat, but didnt really advance the series.

Um... do any Metroid games have a good story? Fusion was all right, but hardly anything special. Metroid isn't a series known for its storytelling, and although I would welcome better stories in Metroid, it doesn't make sense to keep bringing up story as a reason for why Retro shouldn't work on Metroid. Besides, I'd argue Retro has done the best job with the story so far, other than Fusion, which had the advantage of being the most recent game in terms of placement on the Metroid timeline, whereas the Prime trilogy takes place between Metroid 1 and 2, and was never intended to advance the story of the series, but tell its own self-contained story.

That's my main issue with the Prime trilogy, they are decent to great games in their own right, but do absolutely nothing for the Metroid story and unless Retro keeps working on the series, everyone's just going to pretend they never happened storyline wise anyways.

Nintendo bought Retro and made them work on Metroid Prime. So why are you assuming they were in direct control of the story? Nintendo was heavily supervising the development of the games - particularly for Prime 1, where Miyamoto would occasionally fly out to Texas to offer his input and/or yell at the Retro employees.

Then even after Prime 1, Retro still had to get their ideas for Metroid approved by Nintendo. They had an idea for a mission based game where Samus would collect bounties, but couldn't get Nintendo to approve it (also, perhaps more interesting, is as they were pushing for this game, they found out that Samus' job as a bounty hunter is basically mistranslated. She was apparently never intended to be a bounty hunter).

http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/08/...n-texas?page=8

Nintendo still has the final say in the plots for these games, so I'm not sure why Retro is receiving so much flack.

That story about Retro trying to go in another direction with Metroid is the other reason I would prefer for them to work on a new IP, because I think they're getting bored of working on Metroid. But I love all three Metroid games they've made, and think if they were to develop Prime 4/Dread/whatever, they would do a fantastic job, even with their staff changes.


Nintendo needs to build on the main Metroid > Metroid 2 > Super Metroid > Metroid fusion arc and stop screwing with fans.

And there's no reason Retro couldn't create the sequel to Fusion. If that's what Nintendo wants them to do, it's what they'll do.

I like other M for what it was, an attempt to do something different. But Samus character is really misplaced (the serial killer thing was strange, Samus' post traumatic stress at seeing Ridley despite the fact that she's killed him between then and when he killed her parents makes no sense, and Ingrid Berman and Adam were oddly not like how they are supposed to be).

I know Sakimoto is largely to blame for the story, but its not as if the gameplay is flawless either (particularly the visor pixel hunts) and team ninja tends to do visual style over substance, which is a completely weird thing to do for a space horror adventure game that's not really about combat.

Nintendo has been pretty clueless what to do with Sammy since Yokoi's death, but they have added interesting plot threads (like the first character to be romantically interested in Samus is a female) but Nintendo as a whole seems to really struggle writing material for adults only. The closest they came was Twilight Princess, but even then they kind of skimped out on a lot. They really need their own version of Naughty Dog to handle Samus (a developer that does action, plat forming and puzzles all pretty admirably, while also doing strong character work).

And exploration, right? That's generally pretty important in Metroid, more so than the other elements you mentioned.
....


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01-26-2013, 12:28 AM
  #72
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This.

They've never been good at making a Metroid game, although they did an admirable job. They were much better at Donkey Kong.
Metroid Prime is almost universally considered one of the best games of the aughts, and maybe one of the best games of all time. Which game is better, Super Metroid or Metroid Prime, is a legit debate and I fall on the latter side of it.

I think they were FANTASTIC at making a Metroid game. I just don't know that they have the right people in place to continue that work.

I feel like, because of when they were released, people overrated Super Metroid and Link to the Past when subsequent 2D entries have surpassed them and 3D entries have buried them.

Doesn't really matter anyway, every indication we have is that they're working on a New IP.

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01-26-2013, 09:41 AM
  #73
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Metroid Prime is almost universally considered one of the best games of the aughts, and maybe one of the best games of all time. Which game is better, Super Metroid or Metroid Prime, is a legit debate and I fall on the latter side of it.

I think they were FANTASTIC at making a Metroid game. I just don't know that they have the right people in place to continue that work.

I feel like, because of when they were released, people overrated Super Metroid and Link to the Past when subsequent 2D entries have surpassed them and 3D entries have buried them.

Doesn't really matter anyway, every indication we have is that they're working on a New IP.
Time to reply, first to you

Super Metroid is consistently viewed as one of the top games of all time (if not the top) and it, along with Castlevania created an entire genre of exploration/adventure game (also known as Metroidvania). Prime bombed hard in Japan, and because the story matters so little to the overarching game plot, it's viewed as a good (and I really like the prime games) attempt at trying something different with the series.

Prime 1 only sold 2.82 million units, and in comparison, Super Metroid sold 1.4 (not counting Virtual console sales, which are another 500k+) back when it came out, when gaming was a lot more niche.

What game is "better" is a legit debate, but what game had a bigger impact on gaming isn't. And that's part of it with Super Metroid, in addition to how the story resonated with some people to the point of making them cry, topped off with how Super Metroid helped popularize (although unintentionally) things like sequence breaking and speed running.

The problem is, unless someone played the old school SNES games at the time they came out, it's really hard to make the jump from 3d back to 2d without being a little bit biased about things like graphics.

It's not really a debate though, you'd be hard pressed to find any critics top games of all time that ranks Prime over Super. Are there other metrics to measure game quality? Sure, but that's the easiest one to point to as tangible.

But I digress, this is about Nintendo, but Metroid to me (and to a lesser extent Zelda) are good examples of Nintendo franchises going through growing pains (in the case of Zelda, it made the jump to 3d fine, but it's becoming a little too formulaic) and Nintendo trying to solve them while keeping the fans happy.

Retro did a fine job with Prime, it's just not the game the fans of the originals tend to want (due to story writing fumbles mostly from Nintendo itself and being a series of games outside the main series). There's nothing innately WRONG with the Prime series, they are good for what they are and I love to play them, but I want Nintendo to finally finish Metroid Dread and carry on with the story.

The bigger problem is that the Metroid ship captain is gone, and Miyamoto and Sakamoto don't belong anywhere near the franchise. I'd honestly rather they shelf Samus for awhile and get her right than to keep screwing with her.

Sakamoto wrote the story in Fusion just fine, but it was meant to be a culmination of ideas that came before it, so maybe it was easier to write than say, Other M. And for the thought that Metroid doesn't have an extremely deep lore and story, it does, and has since Metroid 1, but it's in supplemental material or nuanced instead of outright said. (This is something Retro actually did right in the Prime trilogy, writing about how the Space Pirates are terrified of the coming apocalypse, and then you find out that apocalypse is Samus)

To bring it back onto topic, this is a challenge Nintendo will have from now on. As the casual crowd comes and goes, they have franchises (namely Zelda and Metroid) that need to evolve in order to come up to modern video game standards of story telling. They've done okay I guess with Zelda, and Mario doesn't need much of a story, but franchises like Star Fox and Metroid need a bit more depth to help them out. Nintendo is terrible at making mature games (except for maybe Eternal Darkness), so I think they will continue to struggle a bit but will figure it out eventually.

Miyamoto is a genius, and has done more for gaming than I ever will, but his insistence that game story is irrelevant and gameplay is king is slowly making him (and Nintendo to a lesser extent) slide down a slippery slope, especially when other game developers have proven that you dont need to sacrifice gameplay for the sake of story in this day and age. And this ties into a decade long problem with Nintendo, where they sometimes focus too much on mass appeal and they forget about their hardcore gamers, which are the lifeblood of any console.

With all that said though, their latest announcements were a step in the right direction, I just hope when E3 rolls around they are truly ready with the big guns (and they imply they are), because if they aren't, they'll largely get drowned out by Sony and Microsoft announcing a billion things.

I'm more optimistic about the Wii U now though than I was at launch.

Oh- And Retro is working on Star Fox, that or Donkey Kong Country. There was talk of a Metroid and Star Fox mashup game, but I hope Nintendo killed that idea.


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01-27-2013, 03:36 AM
  #74
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Prime 1 only sold 2.82 million units, and in comparison, Super Metroid sold 1.4 (not counting Virtual console sales, which are another 500k+) back when it came out, when gaming was a lot more niche.

It's not really a debate though, you'd be hard pressed to find any critics top games of all time that ranks Prime over Super. Are there other metrics to measure game quality? Sure, but that's the easiest one to point to as tangible.
So what you're saying is Metroid Prime sold twice the amount of copies as Super Metroid, despite being on a Nintendo's worst selling console? The Gamecube sold 21 million units, whereas the Super Nintendo sold 49 million.

And I highly doubt it's uncommon to find critics that prefer Prime over Super. I know Matt Casamassina is a huge Metroid fan, and Prime is even his favorite game.

Prime 1 has a Metacritic rating of 97. People tend to think it's an amazing game, and there's no reason not to think a lot of people/critics would prefer it over Super.


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01-27-2013, 07:07 AM
  #75
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So what you're saying is Metroid Prime sold twice the amount of copies as Super Metroid, despite being on a Nintendo's worst selling console? The Gamecube sold 21 million units, whereas the Super Nintendo sold 49 million.

And I highly doubt it's uncommon to find critics that prefer Prime over Super. I know Matt Casamassina is a huge Metroid fan, and Prime is even his favorite game.

Prime 1 has a Metacritic rating of 97. People tend to think it's an amazing game, and there's no reason not to think a lot of people/critics would prefer it over Super.
Gaming was much bigger during the GameCube era than during the SNES era. And Prime may have outsold Super, its hard to say without virtual console numbers. But looking at them just on their original consoles, Prime is ahead by a million, but again, different era.

Really hard to compare sales numbers like that because gaming exploded in popularity post Playstation.

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