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Blues Sign Wade Redden (1 year, $800K)

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01-25-2013, 06:12 PM
  #126
EastonBlues22
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
What i bolded makes him a better option that Cole. Petro does not need a world beater to be his partner.
I don't think it's that clear cut.

One of the keys to beating our team last year was focusing an aggressive attack on Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk in an attempt to force their partners to carry the load in terms of transition play and puck management.

Sometimes those partners (Jackman, Colaiacovo, Huskins, etc.) were able to do a decent enough job for the Blues to win. Other times they couldn't. Either way, the Blues became a lot easier to play against because the transition attack was much less dynamic for most of the game, and the Blues didn't have the raw talent up front to consistently create scoring chances out of the relatively benign offensive situations they found themselves in all game at ES.

The Blues are going to play teams capable of consistently applying that sort of pressure to Pietrangelo in the playoffs this year, and they'll need more than a warm body minute-muncher next to Pietrangelo if they truly have hopes of winning it all.

Maybe Redden still has more in him than he's shown. It was, after all, his first NHL game in something like 2 years. I doubt he was in peak form, and I'm not looking to pass judgement on his limited play this year anymore than I'm looking to pass judgement on Cole's.

If he can created some dangerous offensive chances in transition (either by pushing the puck himself to get numbers, or by making passes that spring a dangerous counter), then he has a good shot at earning the job.

If he can't, and Cole (who is capable of both those things in transition) isn't able to earn the job either by ironing out the wrinkles in his own game, then the Blues are in trouble.

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01-25-2013, 06:58 PM
  #127
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I wonder how Russell would look next to Petro

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01-25-2013, 06:59 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by oPlaiD View Post
Penalty kills.

Cole has a high number of penalties for his time on the ice.

Of course Redden had a penalty last night too, but yeah.

Honestly I don't think it makes too much difference which one plays.
I know you mentioned it, but Cole has 2 PIM in 3 games. Redden has 2 PIM in 1 game. Perron has 10 in 4

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01-26-2013, 09:48 AM
  #129
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Hey guys,
Ranger fan here in peace. I was just wondering, how has Redden looked for you guys? I've always been a fan of him, and was sad at how he's been treated and buried in Connecticut with his fast decline. I'm still rooting for him to revive his NHL career! So has he been solid?

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01-26-2013, 10:04 AM
  #130
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Hey guys,
Ranger fan here in peace. I was just wondering, how has Redden looked for you guys? I've always been a fan of him, and was sad at how he's been treated and buried in Connecticut with his fast decline. I'm still rooting for him to revive his NHL career! So has he been solid?
Only played one game, but he was very steady and confident. Highlight was on the end of his shift he was a little gassed, and instead of launching the puck wildly he calmly fed it up to schwartz and took a hit, then that play led to berglunds penalty shot.

I'm impressed with him, hopefully he keeps it up

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01-26-2013, 10:05 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I don't think it's that clear cut.

One of the keys to beating our team last year was focusing an aggressive attack on Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk in an attempt to force their partners to carry the load in terms of transition play and puck management.

Sometimes those partners (Jackman, Colaiacovo, Huskins, etc.) were able to do a decent enough job for the Blues to win. Other times they couldn't. Either way, the Blues became a lot easier to play against because the transition attack was much less dynamic for most of the game, and the Blues didn't have the raw talent up front to consistently create scoring chances out of the relatively benign offensive situations they found themselves in all game at ES.

The Blues are going to play teams capable of consistently applying that sort of pressure to Pietrangelo in the playoffs this year, and they'll need more than a warm body minute-muncher next to Pietrangelo if they truly have hopes of winning it all.

Maybe Redden still has more in him than he's shown. It was, after all, his first NHL game in something like 2 years. I doubt he was in peak form, and I'm not looking to pass judgement on his limited play this year anymore than I'm looking to pass judgement on Cole's.

If he can created some dangerous offensive chances in transition (either by pushing the puck himself to get numbers, or by making passes that spring a dangerous counter), then he has a good shot at earning the job.

If he can't, and Cole (who is capable of both those things in transition) isn't able to earn the job either by ironing out the wrinkles in his own game, then the Blues are in trouble.
I want the Blues to do whatever is best for the team and gives them the best chance to win. That being said, I would like to see if Cole could develop that physical side that we have heard about with him. So far, I have not really seen it and the number of hits that he had last season does not look like a physical defenseman. Last season, we got steamrolled by the Kings in the playoffs because we could not handle their physicality. I do not think adding Redden to this bunch helps us deal with that at all. We need to see if Cole can add a physical compontent to our defense corp and if not, the Blues need to add a defender that can. The way that we look so far, shouldn't we be using these 48 games to prepare our team for a 7-game series vs. a team like the Kings?

As for Redden Thursday evening, I agree that he was unspectacular and steady. There were a couple of times that he had some minor missteps but all in all, not a bad first effort.

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01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by WJC_Fan View Post
I want the Blues to do whatever is best for the team and gives them the best chance to win. That being said, I would like to see if Cole could develop that physical side that we have heard about with him. So far, I have not really seen it and the number of hits that he had last season does not look like a physical defenseman. Last season, we got steamrolled by the Kings in the playoffs because we could not handle their physicality. I do not think adding Redden to this bunch helps us deal with that at all. We need to see if Cole can add a physical compontent to our defense corp and if not, the Blues need to add a defender that can. The way that we look so far, shouldn't we be using these 48 games to prepare our team for a 7-game series vs. a team like the Kings?

As for Redden Thursday evening, I agree that he was unspectacular and steady. There were a couple of times that he had some minor missteps but all in all, not a bad first effort.
We needed better first passes out of the zone not more physicality. Reddens first pass> than Cole's add physical play. If we move the Puck faster they cant set up their forcheck. Sucks for Cole but if redden builds off his performance from Thursday it will be hard for Cole to get back into lineup on a regular basis.

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01-26-2013, 10:28 AM
  #133
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Cole isn't going to develop being the 7th dman on most mights

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01-26-2013, 10:36 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Cole isn't going to develop being the 7th dman on most mights
Too bad for Cole. Blues are as close to win now mode as you can get. He have other defensively prospects that are developing nicely. If Cole gives the blues a better chance to win he will play if redden gives them a better chance he will play. Winning now is more important than giving Cole time to develop.

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01-26-2013, 10:50 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
We needed better first passes out of the zone not more physicality. Reddens first pass> than Cole's add physical play. If we move the Puck faster they cant set up their forcheck. Sucks for Cole but if redden builds off his performance from Thursday it will be hard for Cole to get back into lineup on a regular basis.
If Russell, Shattenkirk, and Pietrangelo were having trouble moving the puck out of the zone, I am not sure Redden would have had more success. By the end of the series, our defenseman were playing at a much lower level then prior due to the physicality that they received. Looking back, that series ended when King blasted Pietrangelo. A little physicality on the Kings' forwards would have a similar effect on them over a seven game series. I do agree that ultimately Redden may be a better fit for the Blues then Cole at the stages of their careers and that Cole may need to bide his time or be trade bait for a player that gets us over the hump. I guess I just do not see Redden as the piece that pushes us over the top. To me, he does not fill what I believe is our biggest need.

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01-26-2013, 11:01 AM
  #136
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Cole isn't going to develop being the 7th dman on most mights
No, he's not. But should thr Blues play him even if they determine that combos without him are better for the team just to help Cole? I don't think so. That's something a rebuilding team does. That was the 2005-2008 Blues. The 2013 Blues are Cup contenders and need to play who gives them the best chance to win.

Whether that's with Cole or without Cole, I don't think we know yet. I think all 7 guys are going to see plenty of minutes because with such a condensed schedule, there will be injuries and Hitch will rest guys as well, especially older guys like Jackman and Redden. I see this as a 7-man rotation more than the typical top-6 and 7th guy. I think both Cole and Redden will see plenty if time and we shouldn't bother bickering over who helps the team more. That will sort itself out and both will likely play plenty.

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01-26-2013, 11:19 AM
  #137
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I agree that the problem for the Blues was that the transition game got bogged down. The defense got rattled, and couldn't control and move the puck up ice fast enough. The split-second slower action makes them susceptible to the buzzing forecheck of the Kings. Basically, we looked like how a lot of teams look against the Blues.

As for Cole vs Redden, I'm glad we have both. Cole has shown some growth, and I still have hopes for him....but its nice that he's going to have to earn his spot in the line-up rather than have it given to him by default. I think Redden has a lot of productive games left in him, but he won't be relied on for night-in, night-out starts. If he can play steady D, it could also take a lot of pressure of Jackman and allow him to sit out instead of playing through some of the injuries he usually plays through.

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01-26-2013, 11:32 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by ManyIdeas View Post
Only played one game, but he was very steady and confident. Highlight was on the end of his shift he was a little gassed, and instead of launching the puck wildly he calmly fed it up to schwartz and took a hit, then that play led to berglunds penalty shot.

I'm impressed with him, hopefully he keeps it up
Nice, definitely pulling for him. Nice to see these stories. Best of luck to you guys as well! Tarasenko is a beast.

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01-26-2013, 11:39 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
No, he's not. But should thr Blues play him even if they determine that combos without him are better for the team just to help Cole? I don't think so. That's something a rebuilding team does. That was the 2005-2008 Blues. The 2013 Blues are Cup contenders and need to play who gives them the best chance to win.

Whether that's with Cole or without Cole, I don't think we know yet. I think all 7 guys are going to see plenty of minutes because with such a condensed schedule, there will be injuries and Hitch will rest guys as well, especially older guys like Jackman and Redden. I see this as a 7-man rotation more than the typical top-6 and 7th guy. I think both Cole and Redden will see plenty if time and we shouldn't bother bickering over who helps the team more. That will sort itself out and both will likely play plenty.


True dat

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01-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
No, he's not. But should thr Blues play him even if they determine that combos without him are better for the team just to help Cole? I don't think so. That's something a rebuilding team does. That was the 2005-2008 Blues. The 2013 Blues are Cup contenders and need to play who gives them the best chance to win.

Whether that's with Cole or without Cole, I don't think we know yet. I think all 7 guys are going to see plenty of minutes because with such a condensed schedule, there will be injuries and Hitch will rest guys as well, especially older guys like Jackman and Redden. I see this as a 7-man rotation more than the typical top-6 and 7th guy. I think both Cole and Redden will see plenty if time and we shouldn't bother bickering over who helps the team more. That will sort itself out and both will likely play plenty.
THIS is the answer. With injuries and need to rest Redden and Jackman, I see Cole, Redden, Jackman, Russell and maybe Polak(if he gets injured) getting 3/4 time, and Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and maybe Polak getting full time.

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01-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #141
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I think the Cole vs. Redden is getting over-discussed here. We stole Redden at that price and we are not designed to win based on 2-3 players but rather depth. Any one of our top 3 forward lines could slide into a 1 or 2 spot on any other team in the league. We don't rely on one line getting it done, but all three lines creating so much pressure and gassing our opponents and using depth to dominate.

Furthermore, look at our goalie situation. We didn't get where we got last year with one goalie, but two that fed off each other. Just look at what happened in the first Nashville game. Halak was not too hot so Elliot came in and we won the game.

The same should be said for our defense. We need the depth and the players know that. If Cole is really upset that he isn't getting that spot, he needs to harness that and play harder. If Redden is hungry for a more regular spot in the lineup, he needs to continue to show that on a regular basis.

For me, this is a great problem to have. I really believe the players have bought into this and if they want to complain, they are on the wrong team. As fans, we can evaluate and judge them all we want, but we all know what is really happening and we should try to enjoy the ride.

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01-26-2013, 09:34 PM
  #142
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At any price---getting Redden at that price is a steal. He could have sulked about going to the AHL, but he played hard.

Who gave the recommendation to sign Redden?

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01-26-2013, 11:09 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
No, he's not. But should thr Blues play him even if they determine that combos without him are better for the team just to help Cole? I don't think so. That's something a rebuilding team does. That was the 2005-2008 Blues. The 2013 Blues are Cup contenders and need to play who gives them the best chance to win.

Whether that's with Cole or without Cole, I don't think we know yet. I think all 7 guys are going to see plenty of minutes because with such a condensed schedule, there will be injuries and Hitch will rest guys as well, especially older guys like Jackman and Redden. I see this as a 7-man rotation more than the typical top-6 and 7th guy. I think both Cole and Redden will see plenty if time and we shouldn't bother bickering over who helps the team more. That will sort itself out and both will likely play plenty.
In a shortened season I agree with you.

In a regular 82 games season, I'd go with the Tony LaRussa approach. Play your prospects, and your role players (sometimes under the guise of rest days for the older players) a lot early in the season to develop them a bit, and see what you actually have when the game is on the line. After the All-Star break (or more likely, the Winter Classic) you start rolling out the line-up that gives you the best chance to win on a nightly basis.

Now, the team obviously needs to be a contender for something like this to work. If you are going to struggle to make the playoffs, you can't afford to spend games doing this. It is certainly easier in a 160+ game schedule than an 82 game schedule.

Now, that isn't to say you have to play your role-players and prospects every game early on. Just that they should receive more playing time early in the season than perhaps their play warrants.

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01-26-2013, 11:10 PM
  #144
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At any price---getting Redden at that price is a steal. He could have sulked about going to the AHL, but he played hard.

Who gave the recommendation to sign Redden?
Hitch has contacts in the CT Whale organIzation, according to the Blues TV crew. I think Pang said he talked to both the coach and GM of the Whales about Redden.

Glad to have him. Even just as a 6/7 upgrade over Huskins last year

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01-27-2013, 09:46 PM
  #145
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Hitch has contacts in the CT Whale organIzation, according to the Blues TV crew. I think Pang said he talked to both the coach and GM of the Whales about Redden.

Glad to have him. Even just as a 6/7 upgrade over Huskins last year
If he puts this up, I could see him being more than just a 1-year option. (I saw the interview with Federko on YouTube.) Towards the end of his tenure with the Whale, he was their captain.

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01-27-2013, 10:14 PM
  #146
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Looks like my first instincts were right about the Cole/Redden dynamic.

The bottom line is that veteran coaches like veteran players at important positions who have been through the grind of many playoffs. Just like LaRussa, who a previous poster mentioned.

And blueman makes a good point that they shortened season coupled with the Blues being a contender simply heightens the intensity of this season.

But I still think everyone in the hierarchy of hockey ops has to be disappointed that Cole still cannot grab a regular role and be just a solid contributor, much less a top 4 force.

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01-27-2013, 10:56 PM
  #147
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Looks like my first instincts were right about the Cole/Redden dynamic.

The bottom line is that veteran coaches like veteran players at important positions who have been through the grind of many playoffs. Just like LaRussa, who a previous poster mentioned.

And blueman makes a good point that they shortened season coupled with the Blues being a contender simply heightens the intensity of this season.

But I still think everyone in the hierarchy of hockey ops has to be disappointed that Cole still cannot grab a regular role and be just a solid contributor, much less a top 4 force.
He WILL play a decent number of games due to injuries and need to rest Redden and Jackman. He HAS improved his game some over last season. He's still young for a defenceman. I'm not worried about him failing to become a "Top 4 D-man". He will be at that level of ability and play by the end of this season.

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01-27-2013, 11:58 PM
  #148
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I see Hitchcock starting 7 defensemen a couple times, too, if the whole roster is healthy.

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