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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #176
JLP
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
No my sir. We are talking numbers, tell me what u think is reasonable salary for Subban?
I think PK has already reached the level where he can demand Kaberle money

Actual figure depends on contract terms and length no?

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01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #177
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I think it's perfectly reasonable for PK to want a salary in the 4-5million per range. Nothing more than that, but 4-5 is fine.

2.5 is a serious low ball. Ridiculous, if true.

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01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Oh that Drew Doughty.

It's actually pretty funny to read past articles on his contract signing. Meehan is his agent as well and they wanted less years while the Kings wanted more years. You know, because they actually recognized his talent.
I don't know why. There's plenty of smooth skating offensive Defenseman who can score goals, set up plays, play the point on the PP, kill penalties. That skill set is readily available around the league.,

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01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Even fans of opposing teams get it, that should tell us something:

do-the-canadiens-realize-how-good-pk-subban-is
It really makes me worry that MB is a complete dinosaur - I have no issues with a bridge contract (although I think the long-term savings on a 6-7 deal signed now would be outstanding), but PK is worth a lot more than the reported offer.

I'm shocked by this situation - it's mind boggling.

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01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
4-4.5Mil per year is my numbers. Enough for our super star?
If you say so then most of us already agree with you. 4 to 4.5M for the next 2 years is a very decent offer. The problem is that MB has stuck to the 2.5M since the summer.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
So he's an opportunist because he's negotiating a contract now that he doesn't have a valid one?

Great logic there.

Just fantastic, impenetrable logic.

I suppose he's greedy because he hasn't signed yet too, right? Even if Dreger, Lavoie and MacKenzie are reporting a low ball offer. Greed on Subban's part, right?
I'm willing to play the game for free at a minuscule fraction of the talent and pure ability that P.K. Subban has. Nevermind the fact that when the best players in hockey stopped playing, nobody really watched any other level of hockey. If that's the case, Subban should do the same! For the CH! Because only players can be greedy, never General Managers!

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01-26-2013, 10:21 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
This is talking numbers? LOL



Get real. You were just taking a baseless shot at Subban and you know it.

If you want to talk seriously, I think he's worth more than $2.5M that's apparently being offered.

Not quite a $5M d-man yet, but I think once his bridge contract is over he'll probably be worth more than that, so the bridge contract is actually counter-productive long term when it comes to saving cap space.

Unless he regresses, in which case the bridge contract may be a good call, but I sincerely doubt that happens. So far, bridge contracts have usually ended up costing us more (Gorges, Plekanec, Price).
So after all we are talking same language and numbers. Whats the point to argue?

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01-26-2013, 10:22 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
To see if Del Zotto is a valid comparable to Subban... How much would Del Zotto fetch as UFA? How much would Subban get as UFA?
Subban's most common opponents (in order of ice time): Jason Pominville, Jason Spezza, Milan Michalek, Phil Kessel, Derek Roy, John Tavares, Tyler Bozak, Steven Stamkos, Matt Moulson, Ilya Kovalchuk.

Del Zotto's most common oppnents (in order of ice time): Petr Sykora, Matt Read, Danias Zubrus, David Clarkson, Frans Nielsen, Wayne Simmonds, Michael Grabner, Patrik Elias, Shawn Matthias, Pascal Dupuis.

Not as much, shouldn't even be close IMO.

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01-26-2013, 10:23 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
4-4.5Mil per year is my numbers. Enough for our super star?
Who knows, but he's reportedly getting offered half of that in real life. If you do think he's worth 4-4.5, would you accept 2.5 if you're his agent?

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01-26-2013, 10:23 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I think he means that the negotiations are now basically public, in a city with the most hockey writers in the world. is that good?
Which is irrelevant. EVERYTHING related to hockey becomes public in Montreal.

I'm really stupified by the lack of understanding of a negotiation process over here. Blaming one part for this ''circus'' when you don't even know what happened and what has been proposed in the process is absurd. Claiming that Subban is selfish or that Bergevin is an idiot for not signing him long term is worst.

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01-26-2013, 10:24 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
So after all we are talking same language and numbers. Whats the point to argue?
It;'s you who start to bash PK. We are all upset with MB for this low ball offer and refuse to budge from it.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:24 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
So after all we are talking same language and numbers. Whats the point to argue?
I'm not debating the numbers, I am saying you denigrating him and insulting him without basis is ridiculous and childish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
******* off that greedy Mr Center of the Universe. Trade him and move on, he aint Bobby Orr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
Yes sir. But Subban aint Crosby. Hopefully we trade that cocky little piece of sh***.

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01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
Which is irrelevant. EVERYTHING related to hockey becomes public in Montreal.

I'm really stupified by the lack of understanding of a negotiation process over here. Blaming one part for this ''circus'' when you don't even know what happened and what has been proposed in the process is absurd. Claiming that Subban is selfish or that Bergevin is an idiot for not signing him long term is worst.
Nice to hear a voice of reason in here once in a while.

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01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
To see if Del Zotto is a valid comparable to Subban... How much would Del Zotto fetch as UFA? How much would Subban get as UFA?
He isn't, not even close:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...d-pk-subban-is

p.s. That was written by a non-Habs fan.

The only people who think MDZ is close, have checked out NHL.com's stats page for 3 minutes to come to a conclusion.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
So after all we are talking same language and numbers. Whats the point to argue?
Because you are being a dick.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #191
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With Markov playing Top-5 D hockey, inserting Subban back into this D-corps and removing a guy like Kaberle instantaneously makes us a strong team on D. Emelin and Diaz seem to have taken big strides forward, all we are missing is another physically intimidating defenseman and we have one that might just be ready starting next year in Tinordi.

We can't afford to lose P.K Subban unless we are getting back a P.K Subban. Or an elite offensive forward.

If that offer to P.K is true, it's a serious low-ball. He is completely worth Josh Gorges money today, without a shadow of a doubt.

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01-26-2013, 10:26 AM
  #192
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I wasnt really on pk's side but after hearing the 5.1 millions offer for 2 years i have to say this is ridiculous. Right now as we speak pk is worth much more than that. This is getting ridiculous is this a way to get rid of him and find some reason to trade him? If they trade him this will set us back years at the blue line...

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01-26-2013, 10:26 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I'm not debating the numbers, I am saying you denigrating him and insulting him without basis is ridiculous and childish.
Sorry that i insult modern day Mr Hockey, PK Subban. He is almighty. Lets move on.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I'm not debating the numbers, I am saying you denigrating him and insulting him without basis is ridiculous and childish.
I agree with that first quote. If we don't have a player as good as Bobby Orr we should trade them, especially if they are cocky. But if we don't have a player as good as Shawn Thornton, we should sign a player of equivalent ability for almost double what the next team is offering.

I won't argue with logic.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #195
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Why can't they go to arbitration?

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01-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #196
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So the Habs are still holding firm on a 2 year deal, roughly $5 million total. It was reported earlier that both sides were 2.5 - 3 million apart.. Is the 2.5 - 3 million more that Subban wants on the total amount or per year I wonder?

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01-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I think he means that the negotiations are now basically public, in a city with the most hockey writers in the world. is that good?
It's not just that.

When you are GM of a hockey team, you need to pick your battles. Some players you will overpay. Some you will underpay. As long as you don't commit ridiculous screw ups in the mold of signing/trading for Gomez, it should be mostly a wash.

So now you have to decide when it is you really wanna fight for scraps. When is it you wanna fight tooth and nail for that 1M difference. Is it when dealing with.. um... Prust ? Is it when you're dealing with Moen ? Or is it when you're dealing with Pacioretty or Subban ? Is it really in the best interest of the habs to lowball one of its most promising player and not give him what his value truly is ?

But even more importantly... the player wants to sign long term. Bergevin insists on a bridge deal.

In Dallas Benn was holding out because he wanted a short term deal. And Nieuwendyk was making him hold out because he wanted a long term deal. THAT I understand. What Bergevin is doing makes no sense though. He's basically making Subban hold out only to have to pay him more down the line. He's working against his best interest and those of the habs ! There is a 95% certainty barring critical injuries that this is what will result. It's really not much of a gamble to go for the long term deal now. That's what all the other teams are doing with their promising RFA coming off their ELCs. The list is too long to list.

And obviously there is the matter of the distraction surrounding this whole thing.

That's why this is an easy decision because the player actually wants to commit long term right now at, by all accounts, what appears to be a reasonable amount. It is an easy decision.

Whatever Bergevin will save in the next 2 years will not help us win a cup in those 2 years. We have to look beyond these two years. But once more, it's a lack of competence and vision by the management.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
I wasnt really on pk's side but after hearing the 5.1 millions offer for 2 years i have to say this is ridiculous. Right now as we speak pk is worth much more than that. This is getting ridiculous is this a way to get rid of him and find some reason to trade him? If they trade him this will set us back years at the blue line...
Like Ryan "Throw-in" McDonagh.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #199
Dr Gonzo
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Why can't they go to arbitration?
Not eligible.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:29 AM
  #200
Erik Estrada
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Subban's most common opponents (in order of ice time): Jason Pominville, Jason Spezza, Milan Michalek, Phil Kessel, Derek Roy, John Tavares, Tyler Bozak, Steven Stamkos, Matt Moulson, Ilya Kovalchuk.

Del Zotto's most common oppnents (in order of ice time): Petr Sykora, Matt Read, Danias Zubrus, David Clarkson, Frans Nielsen, Wayne Simmonds, Michael Grabner, Patrik Elias, Shawn Matthias, Pascal Dupuis.

Not as much, shouldn't even be close IMO.
I could see teams offering Subban north of 7M$/season as a UFA to revive their franchise. Suddenly, their team's jersey will start flying off the shelves... Del Zotto wouldn't fill one extra seat in an arena...

Does the Restricted part of RFA, really mean you take a 4-5 M$/ year haircut off your real free market value?

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