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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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01-26-2013, 11:40 AM
  #376
JustAHabFan
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Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Because those guys were signed when the cap was going to be at 70.3 million for the following year and who knows what afterwards. Whereas now the cap yes is at 70.3 this year but next year it's at 64.3 million. No one said we're in cap hell. Just that we don't have tons of cap space to sign a long term deal right now because any long term deal will have a higher cap hit than the actual salary he will get.
Why didn't we negotiate with PK first? He is only behind Price on the depth chart. MB gave long term contract to MaxPac and do not seriously negotiate with PK. MB gave contracts to Prust and Bouillon before giving contract to PK. MB got his priorities all wrong. Something is not right here.

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01-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
We do have Markov, right?
Exactly. Everyone knows you only need -1- first pairing D.

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01-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Making one of your best young player hold out to "assess his character" would serve more to assess Bergevin's intelligence than PK's character.
I'm not saying I agree, just a hypothetical pov.

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01-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Exactly. Everyone knows you only need -1- first pairing D.
We do have Gorges, right?

You said "1st-pairing 2-way defensemen", not "1st pairing". Stop moving the goalposts.

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01-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
We do have Gorges, right?

You said "1st-pairing 2-way defensemen", not "1st pairing". Stop moving the goalposts.
Hey, are we playing the semantics game? I love the semantics game!

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01-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #381
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It's always good being the laughing stock of the league, yay!

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01-26-2013, 11:43 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
We do have Gorges, right?

You said "1st-pairing 2-way defensemen", not "1st pairing". Stop moving the goalposts.
Sorry, but Gorges ain't two-way. Defensive D. Montreal has no choice but to try him on the PP at times.

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01-26-2013, 11:44 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
It's always good being the laughing stock of the league, yay!
You're a Leafs fan?

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:44 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Hey, are we playing the semantics game? I love the semantics game!
The man said: "We had a need for 1st-pairing 2-ways defensemen", I said we don't really since Markov is there. That need is filled

He answers "We need 2x 1st-pairing defensemen!"

Well.. Gorges is there. His argument is nonexistent.

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01-26-2013, 11:44 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Why didn't we negotiate with PK first? He is only behind Price on the depth chart. MB gave long term contract to MaxPac and do not seriously negotiate with PK. MB gave contracts to Prust and Bouillon before giving contract to PK. MB got his priorities all wrong. Something is not right here.
Well, it's being reported that the offer that's on the table hasn't changed since May, which means that they started negotiations in may before the UFA period even started so.....

As fas as Max goes, again, Max signed a two year deal before getting the long one.

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01-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #386
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Didn't read the whole thread, that goes as fast as any threads I,ve seen in such a long time, but people who can read french...read Martin Leclerc's article. Subban has nothing to do with Price and Pacioretty. Nothing, and not even close. And I'd personnally go as far as to think that putting Subban at Price or Pacioretty's level as far as "having to sign a bridge contract" is totally insulting.

If I'm Subban, I'd start looking for an offersheet. Or I ask the Habs to sign for 1 year. You want a bridge contract? Here's one.

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01-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
The man said: "We had a need for 1st-pairing 2-ways defensemen", I said we don't really since Markov is there. That need is filled

He answers "We need 2x 1st-pairing defensemen!"

Well.. Gorges is there. His argument is nonexistent.
Gorges scored a goal in the last game. I guess that makes him two way!

I like this idea that we don't need more 1st pairing defencemen because we have one. I guess Montreal needs to show we're not selfish.

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01-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Before today there weren't really any hard numbers just wild guesses. Now (if this is true) we know for sure MB is being an idiot and is destined to lose our most exciting player.

Why would PK want to play for a team that shows him ZERO respect?
With the number of respected journalists now publishing the offer, I believe that is is 2 years, 2.2 then 2.9M.

If I am Subban, I take 1 year $2.2M just ot get on the ice, go out and have a great year, and then file for arbitration next year, after entertaining offer sheets for 10 days.

If the Habs refuse to give him a one-year deal, and no one in the whole league is making an offer sheet, then we have a Tim Raines situation, and Don Meehan and Donald Fehr should file a grievance.

This is now on Geoff Molson to fix.

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
Sorry, but Gorges ain't two-way. Defensive D. Montreal has no choice but to try him on the PP at times.
I never said he is 2-way. I said he's 1st pairing.

I mean, 2x 2-ways 1st pairing would be awesome, sure. But it's not NECESSARY. We just need 2x 1st-pairing, one of them being 2-ways.

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01-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #390
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It's picking up big time.... steam is picking up and the train is about to reach full speed... before you know it Subban will be arriving at the station right in front of the bell centre

If you have TWITTER, all you have to do is tweet:

@GMolsonCHC #signsubban

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Kostitsyn: Lost for nothing
Komisarek: Lost for nothing
Higgins: Traded for GOMEZ
O'Byrne: Dealt for Bournival
Latendresse: Traded for Pouliot lost for nothing.
Halak: Dealt for Eller
Lapierre: Dealt for 4th
Pyatt: Lost for nothing.
S. Kost: Lost for nothing.

MY GOD our management has been incompetent for so long.
Not sure whats worse, losing guys like Komi and Higgins or having them on the books for 6 years at 4.5M if we had signed them to big extensions

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01-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
It's "disgusting" because the Habs already benefited from 2 years of Subban playing #1, but paying him 5-6.

They reward him by making him the 4th best payed defenseman, and he will still play #1 minutes.
Relax, he'll get more than the numbers Dregger put out.

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Gorges scored a goal in the last game. I guess that makes him two way!

I like this idea that we don't need more 1st pairing defencemen because we have one. I guess Montreal needs to show we're not selfish.
We have TWO 1st pairing defensemen. Just one of them happens to be 2-ways.

What's your problem man? Can't you read what I'm writing?

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:49 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I guess. Don't know MB's gameplan.

Prust and Bouillon's style of players were really needed, with or without Subban. The end. Infer what you want.
I am not denying we need Prust and Bouilon, but as a GM you have to know what cap space is available to you. You have to plan for the cap space in the new CBA. You have to determine the priorities of signing your players. ATM, MB did a very poor job relating to what I just mentioned.

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01-26-2013, 11:49 AM
  #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
The man said: "We had a need for 1st-pairing 2-ways defensemen", I said we don't really since Markov is there. That need is filled

He answers "We need 2x 1st-pairing defensemen!"

Well.. Gorges is there. His argument is nonexistent.
Okay, my argument is nonexistent cool, so you are saying it's a good idea to build our defense around a 34 year old Andrei Markov whose ability to hold up, while clearly better than some have stated, is still in doubt? You really think having Gorges as the second best D-man is a great idea? Is putting Boullion on the PP and PK exciting to you?

Or, more to the point, Prust is more important to this team than Subban?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I never said he is 2-way. I said he's 1st pairing.

I mean, 2x 2-ways 1st pairing would be awesome, sure. But it's not NECESSARY. We just need 2x 1st-pairing, one of them being 2-ways.
Having multiple top tier two way defensemen is a luxury, but a high end grinder who fights is necessary?

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01-26-2013, 11:49 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Not sure whats worse, losing guys like Komi and Higgins or having them on the books for 6 years at 4.5M if we had signed them to big extensions
Losing Komi for nothing. If he had stayed with Markov his career might not have tail-spinned. But at the very least if we knew he was gonna go, we could've traded his rights.

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:51 AM
  #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
The man said: "We had a need for 1st-pairing 2-ways defensemen", I said we don't really since Markov is there. That need is filled

He answers "We need 2x 1st-pairing defensemen!"

Well.. Gorges is there. His argument is nonexistent.
Who needs good tires when you already have 1?

What a stupid argument.

The team is better the more top tier defenseman they have.

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:51 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If PK gives in to Bergevin's deal.. you know what happens when it comes time for the long term deal?

"You won last time. I'm not giving in this time." So we'll end up trading him then or biting the bullet on the long term deal.
Price signed a bridge contract (after a heated contract negotiation) and then he signed a beneficial deal both from the player and the team perspective. What you are describing is the path 95% of the players followed. Such an outcome (Subban’s progression and performance in the upcoming 1-3 years giving him an edge for his next contract negotiation) would be more than normal imo; it would be optimal for both parties.


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If the offer really was 2 years, 2.2 for the first and 2.9 for the 2nd year.... well that's just retarded.. Everybody is on the MB camp because he's the new flavor but if he indeed offred that to Subban, he's gonna be as bad as the other GM we had in the past few years. BTW he didn't do much thus far for the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Let me says, whoever leaked these numbers out did a great job to turn public opinion into PKs camp
I like how quiet Bergevin is during those negociations; he looks professional.

-------------------------

So the season started a week ago... how many more weeks will Subban spend sitting at home?

PK, despite the general impression given by his recent interview with Stubbs (The Gazette – It felt like watching a freakin' infomercial!), is no Crosby so I don’t see why the Canadiens should completely overlook the fact that he is a RFA with no rights to arbitration. If we open the door now and give him a blank check, our Canadiens will fall in a cap related hell as soon as guys like Galchenyuk, Beaulieu... reach the same stage.

As mentioned by Josh Gorges, captain material according to most hfboarders, a guy in his situation does not have a lot of leverage so he should do what 95% of the players did in the same situation: say yes to a transition contract and then aim for better terms.

Luckily for us, Diaz, Emelin, Bouillon and, to a lesser extent, even Kaberle, stepped their game up a notch and are picking up the slack while Subban sits at home watching this 48 games sprint to the playoffs unfolds.

I really hope he is not looking for a lot more money than what Price received in the same situation. And, just to be clear, I really hope Bergevin is offering him more than what Price received 2 years ago!

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:51 AM
  #399
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Losing Komi for nothing. If he had stayed with Markov his career might not have tail-spinned. But at the very least if we knew he was gonna go, we could've traded his rights.
Komi was overrated here, even if he was better than he'd later be. Would have been nice to get something for him though, considering his draft pedigree.

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01-26-2013, 11:52 AM
  #400
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Losing Komi for nothing. If he had stayed with Markov his career might not have tail-spinned. But at the very least if we knew he was gonna go, we could've traded his rights.
Dont get me wrong, the way Gainey managed those assets was a complete failure.

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