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Old
01-26-2013, 11:49 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Broad st phantom View Post
I'm not a big fan of Wellwood, I think his speed is the only thing going for him. I like Sestito a lot more, but he is also high risk. He can add that spark, but he'll also put you on pk. Wellwood seems like the safer choice, thought imo Sestito offers more to this team.
Sestito is terrible in his own zone. As is Shelley. At least that is something Wellwood can be effective at.

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01-26-2013, 11:51 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
Who compared Kopitar to them? I certainly didn't and I also certainly didn't call the Kings an Ice Capades team. Someone else did that.
You did when you defend "tough guys" against ice capades and got called out when you used a top-line player who got in his first NHL fight in the playoffs, in a fight he wasn't even trying to be in, playing for a team that wasn't using any kind of fighter in the playoffs.

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01-26-2013, 12:02 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
Firstly, the name of the game is hockey, not skills competition. Did you watch the Kings run at all? They're a big team and they hit every chance they got. They fought some, even Kopitar. The Flyers' first three lines aren't that big or tough. Simmonds has some edge and so does Hartnell . . . . but Hartnell's hurt now. To balance that out, I don't see anything wrong with dressing a Sestito or Shelley over some 170 lb waterbug because he's fast. We've already got forwards who bring that. To say Sestito and Shelley just can't play is to say you weren't watching Thursday night's game. Teams win hockey games, not individual skills or motivational speeches from Lavy. The proof was on the ice against the Rags.
problem is this team doesnt have anyone that has a good shot accept giroux and the reason i wanted nash was become of his size/speed and a deadly shot, these players dont have good shots, the only thing that would provide offense is the defense or odd man rushes.

it's true defense wins but what about the goals?

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01-26-2013, 12:16 PM
  #54
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Sigh, and now Shelley is scratched against George ****ing Parros. I don't get you sometimes Lavy, I really don't, what happened to jam?

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01-26-2013, 12:19 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You did when you defend "tough guys" against ice capades and got called out when you used a top-line player who got in his first NHL fight in the playoffs, in a fight he wasn't even trying to be in, playing for a team that wasn't using any kind of fighter in the playoffs.
What are you talking about? The Kings got into fights in the playoffs and they absolutely hit people . . . constantly. They won four round in only 20 games and they did it by bulldozing over other teams. They didn't need to dress somebody like Westgarth. Do you watch the games or just moderate? Oh and by the way, Shelley didn't get into any fights against the Rags the other night, Sestito did . . . but it was a fight he wasn't even trying to be in.

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01-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
Firstly, the name of the game is hockey, not skills competition. Did you watch the Kings run at all? They're a big team and they hit every chance they got. They fought some, even Kopitar. The Flyers' first three lines aren't that big or tough. Simmonds has some edge and so does Hartnell . . . . but Hartnell's hurt now. To balance that out, I don't see anything wrong with dressing a Sestito or Shelley over some 170 lb waterbug because he's fast. We've already got forwards who bring that. To say Sestito and Shelley just can't play is to say you weren't watching Thursday night's game. Teams win hockey games, not individual skills or motivational speeches from Lavy. The proof was on the ice against the Rags.
Lets not pretend that dressing Shelley and Sestito was the reason they won. Factors like the second and third lines actually generated offence, Bryz was fantastic and the Rangers having played the night before played much more significant roles than Sestito and Shelley did.

I certainly dont see Wellwood as a "waterbug" so we clearly wont agree on his value to the team. What I hope we can agree on is that he doesn't have a giant target on his back like Sestito does. Case in point, the interference call on Sestito against the Rangers.

Dont get me wrong, I love the physical side of hockey, Im not a promoter of "icecapades" as you put earlier, but there is a difference between the players the Kings dressed (since you love comparing to them) and dressing players whose sole purpose is physicality/fighting/etc. The Kings physical players actually play a significant role on their team. Richards, Brown, Stoll, Greene, etc all bring MUCH more to the table than physicality. Did Westgarth dress any games in the playoffs? No.

I'll admit that losing Hartnell certainly decreased the "edge" this team has, but I am perfectly content with guys like Simmonds, Schenn (x2), Giroux and Grossmann filling the void with Hartnell out.

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01-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Lets not pretend that dressing Shelley and Sestito was the reason they won. Factors like the second and third lines actually generated offence, Bryz was fantastic and the Rangers having played the night before played much more significant roles than Sestito and Shelley did.

I certainly dont see Wellwood as a "waterbug" so we clearly wont agree on his value to the team. What I hope we can agree on is that he doesn't have a giant target on his back like Sestito does. Case in point, the interference call on Sestito against the Rangers.

Dont get me wrong, I love the physical side of hockey, Im not a promoter of "icecapades" as you put earlier, but there is a difference between the players the Kings dressed (since you love comparing to them) and dressing players whose sole purpose is physicality/fighting/etc. The Kings physical players actually play a significant role on their team. Richards, Brown, Stoll, Greene, etc all bring MUCH more to the table than physicality. Did Westgarth dress any games in the playoffs? No.

I'll admit that losing Hartnell certainly decreased the "edge" this team has, but I am perfectly content with guys like Simmonds, Schenn (x2), Giroux and Grossmann filling the void with Hartnell out.
You lost all credibility here.

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01-26-2013, 12:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
You lost all credibility here.
Really? Did this slip your mind?



Im not saying Giroux is a monster physically, but to say he isn't at all is flat out ignorant

Grossmann isnt physical? Wasn't everyone gushing over his huge hit on Gaborik two nights ago?

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01-26-2013, 12:37 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Lets not pretend that dressing Shelley and Sestito was the reason they won. Factors like the second and third lines actually generated offence, Bryz was fantastic and the Rangers having played the night before played much more significant roles than Sestito and Shelley did.

I certainly dont see Wellwood as a "waterbug" so we clearly wont agree on his value to the team. What I hope we can agree on is that he doesn't have a giant target on his back like Sestito does. Case in point, the interference call on Sestito against the Rangers.

Dont get me wrong, I love the physical side of hockey, Im not a promoter of "icecapades" as you put earlier, but there is a difference between the players the Kings dressed (since you love comparing to them) and dressing players whose sole purpose is physicality/fighting/etc. The Kings physical players actually play a significant role on their team. Richards, Brown, Stoll, Greene, etc all bring MUCH more to the table than physicality. Did Westgarth dress any games in the playoffs? No.

I'll admit that losing Hartnell certainly decreased the "edge" this team has, but I am perfectly content with guys like Simmonds, Schenn (x2), Giroux and Grossmann filling the void with Hartnell out.
That's my point. I didn't call the Kings an Ice Capades team, somebody else did. I just pointed out how silly that comment was. The Kings were much bigger and physical among their first three lines than the Flyers are now so dress a Shelley or Sestito on the 4th line to balance that out. People can complain about Shelley's contract and they'd be right, but he's on the team so use him, use Sestito. The hate that these tough guys get because they don't skate as fast or stickhandle as well as some other players is silly. If they couldn't help a team under any circumstances, no team in the league would have them under contract at all.

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01-26-2013, 12:41 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Really? Did this slip your mind?



Im not saying Giroux is a monster physically, but to say he isn't at all is flat out ignorant

Grossmann isnt physical? Wasn't everyone gushing over his huge hit on Gaborik two nights ago?
Neither of them replace the presence of a Sestito and/or Shelley. That's a fact. Aren't even comparable.

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01-26-2013, 12:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ninetynine View Post
Neither of them replace the presence of a Sestito and/or Shelley. That's a fact. Aren't even comparable.
Where did I mention they replaced either of those? I simply said I was content with their physicality (among others) filling the void while Hartnell is injured.

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01-26-2013, 01:13 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
What are you talking about? The Kings got into fights in the playoffs and they absolutely hit people . . . constantly. They won four round in only 20 games and they did it by bulldozing over other teams. They didn't need to dress somebody like Westgarth. Do you watch the games or just moderate? Oh and by the way, Shelley didn't get into any fights against the Rags the other night, Sestito did . . . but it was a fight he wasn't even trying to be in.
Playing tough is not exclusive to being "tough guys." This is about Sestito and Shelley's contributions to the team, to which you compared them to a superstar player getting into a fight because Alexandre Burrows found himself being grabbed by someone who has never been in a fight. And, really? Challenging how often I see the Kings? Do you read posts or just start arguing?

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01-26-2013, 01:18 PM
  #63
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wellwood obviously has more skill then Sestito or Shelly but you need to ice a balanced team. Frankly, until he nets a few goalswellwood is redundant on this team. They have plenty of defensive minded guys that aren't scoring. Wellwood's biggest strength his d play and PK or being taken care of by rusty, talbot, giroux, voracek, and coots.

For everyone that bashes Sestito when was the last time he took a bad penalty. He always takes a guy off the ice with him. He has good wheels for a guy his size and you need some guys that can wear down an opponents d on the forecheck.

I see Sestito filling the same role as Matt Martin, Clifford, Nolan, Glass, Eager. Not a great fighter but a punishing checker with decent hands and wheels that is willing to drop 'em.

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01-26-2013, 01:37 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Playing tough is not exclusive to being "tough guys." This is about Sestito and Shelley's contributions to the team, to which you compared them to a superstar player getting into a fight because Alexandre Burrows found himself being grabbed by someone who has never been in a fight. And, really? Challenging how often I see the Kings? Do you read posts or just start arguing?
I made no such comparison and to say otherwise is ridiculous. I mentioned Kopitar got in a fight in the playoffs . . . . and that the Kings were a big, tough team that played plenty physical to win the cup. Are you saying they didn't? They were in no way an "Ice Capades" team. I read posts just fine but one difference between you and me is quite obvious. I understand what I read.

THIS JUST IN: Wellwood back to the A per https://twitter.com/RandyJMiller . . . . Shocking!


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01-26-2013, 02:10 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
I made no such comparison and to say otherwise is ridiculous. I mentioned Kopitar got in a fight in the playoffs . . . . and that the Kings were a big, tough team that played plenty physical to win the cup. Are you saying they didn't? They were in no way an "Ice Capades" team. I read posts just fine but one difference between you and me is quite obvious. I understand what I read.
You're the one who brought up ice capades dude. And then started talking about Kopitar and "tough players." Well, duh. Everyone here wants tough hockey, what we don't want are the dolts who sit on the end of the bench and do nothing but hit someone and try to get in a fight, which are the biggest reasons people here (correctly) feel guys like Rinaldo and Shelley steal paychecks being that they're completely useless players.

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01-26-2013, 02:18 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You're the one who brought up ice capades dude. And then started talking about Kopitar and "tough players." Well, duh. Everyone here wants tough hockey, what we don't want are the dolts who sit on the end of the bench and do nothing but hit someone and try to get in a fight, which are the biggest reasons people here (correctly) feel guys like Rinaldo and Shelley steal paychecks being that they're completely useless players.
Steal paychecks? Completely useless? Yeah OK. I guess the folks here know more about how to win hockey games than every GM in the league. Oh, and Wellwood back to the A.

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01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
  #67
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Steal paychecks? Completely useless? Yeah OK. I guess the folks here know more about how to win hockey games than every GM in the league. Oh, and Wellwood back to the A.
Oh, you're one of those guys who thinks anyone is an idiot who objectively disagrees with the team since "they get paid to do this, and we sit on computers," which makes sense since almost everyone here knew Shelley was a useless signing for entirely too much money, and Randy Jones was a terrible contract. I hope you're not an Eagles fan.

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01-26-2013, 02:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Oh, you're one of those guys who thinks anyone is an idiot who objectively disagrees with the team since "they get paid to do this, and we sit on computers," which makes sense since almost everyone here knew Shelley was a useless signing for entirely too much money, and Randy Jones was a terrible contract. I hope you're not an Eagles fan.
Holmgren gave Shelley too much money over too much time, but he's still with the team, so use him . . . . that's all I'm saying. He was an effective player Thursday night and so was Sestito. They contributed to a win.

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01-26-2013, 02:35 PM
  #69
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I don't think anyone on here has problems with physicality in hockey. It's the fact that shelley and sestito won't put up points, won't pk and aren't good in there own zone. not to mention that their role on the team which is well known to the officials often costs the team some penalties. guys like that can't/won't be played every game and will only see limited ice time when everyone is fully healthy. i don't see what is so wrong with having that pov.

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01-26-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
Holmgren gave Shelley too much money over too much time, but he's still with the team, so use him . . . . that's all I'm saying. He was an effective player Thursday night and so was Sestito. They contributed to a win.
In the sense of "he's on the roster and we've run out of the players," then yeah, they had to use him. They called up a player from the Phantoms to play above him and signed Knuble so that they can keep him off the ice. They have no intentions on using Shelley in any other circumstance than what came up the other night.

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01-26-2013, 03:54 PM
  #71
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i think letting the lines stablish an identity is a good thing. i wouldnt mind seeing wellwood sestito and rinaldo going forward. we run an attack system "get the puck and go that way" and having big bodies in the lineup to wear guys down means that the top liners can utilize theyre speed game late in games.

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01-26-2013, 09:03 PM
  #72
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Imagine if Sestito and Shelley played tonight, they would've won 12-1

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02-06-2013, 01:14 AM
  #73
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The tough guys even score the goals.

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02-06-2013, 02:07 AM
  #74
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The tough guys even score the goals.
Sestito can play a little, Shelley still sucks though.

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02-06-2013, 02:22 AM
  #75
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Sestito can play a little, Shelley still sucks though.
Huh?






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