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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-26-2013, 12:16 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
At the deadline, for a playoff team, they are not as golden as you think. Paul Gaustad was traded for a 1st round pick last season at the deadline. If he can fetch a 1st then surely Luongo can.
Not with the contract Lu has.

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01-26-2013, 12:17 PM
  #902
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I guess you werent listening when Gillis said a trade did not have to necessarily make you better, just different ?
Any time you trade a star player you will be downgrading to some lesser pieces. Is Columbus better after the Nash trade? Not really. But they still got two decent 2nd line players, as well as solid futures.

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01-26-2013, 12:17 PM
  #903
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Yeah that was a panic move by a team that knew it had to do something for Weber and Suter to tell them hey we're trying to win.
Still happened. Whose to say there won't be another panic move by a GM?

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01-26-2013, 12:18 PM
  #904
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Not with the contract Lu has.
Better locked up long-term than as a rental.

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01-26-2013, 12:19 PM
  #905
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Not with the contract Lu has.
How do you know? Your opinion is not fact. Desperate GM's will do anything to win or save their job.

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01-26-2013, 12:19 PM
  #906
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Still happened. Whose to say there won't be another panic move by a GM?
We'll see I'll laugh my head off if a team does make a move like that.

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01-26-2013, 12:19 PM
  #907
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Not with the contract Lu has.
I agree, he should get much more. A $5.3 mil cap hit for a goalie like himself is quite good. And he isn't an upcoming UFA like Gaustad was.

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01-26-2013, 12:20 PM
  #908
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We'll see I'll laugh my head off if a team does make a move like that.
You've had good practice.

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01-26-2013, 12:20 PM
  #909
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How do you know? Your opinion is not fact. Desperate GM's will do anything to win or save their job.
Your opinion isn't fact either that he's worth a first round pick. I can play that game too.

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01-26-2013, 12:20 PM
  #910
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Your opinion isn't fact either that he's worth a first round pick. I can play that game too.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

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01-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #911
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You've had good practice.
Kessel was 21/22 years old when we made that trade. Try again.

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01-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #912
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That may be so, but our bottom-6 depth is fine, so to add another chippy grinder isn't that much of an improvement for us. If JVR were on the table, then I could see a deal being worked out with the Leafs, but otherwise, I just don't think there's any possible deal to be worked out between us.
The hardest part for me including JVR in any trade proposal is I haven't seen enough of him to really put a value on him.

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01-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #913
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Bam!! Got nothing to say eh

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01-26-2013, 12:22 PM
  #914
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Kessel was 21/22 years old when we made that trade. Try again.
I didn't name names. Interesting that you automatically thought of him.

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01-26-2013, 12:23 PM
  #915
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I didn't name names. Interesting that you automatically thought of him.
Well who would you be thinking of? The Leafs haven't traded a first round pick for a roster player since Toskala. We had a pick in 08, 09/ traded our '10 pick for Kessel and we've had one in '11 and '12 .

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01-26-2013, 12:23 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
I agree, he should get much more. A $5.3 mil cap hit for a goalie like himself is quite good. And he isn't an upcoming UFA like Gaustad was.
The reality is that more teams are starting out slow who were supposed to win. I am willing to bet Gillis has a few teams doing more than kicking tires. These GM's are just as competitive as we all are. Somebody will anti up

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01-26-2013, 12:24 PM
  #917
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What makes you think you can get a first round pick from anyone? Please explain. First round picks are like gold these days, they are the foundation of a farm system, Luongo may be elite for another 2-3 years but that doesn't mean you give up cheap affordable elite blue chip talent for it.
Precisely. Now that Kadri is here to stay, the Leafs have one ultra elite prospect, Rielly. It's supposed to be one of the strongest drafts in years. Why would a team, even one so often dysfunctional as the Leafs, consider trading their first round pick for an aging goalie? What are the chances of that actually happening? They are zero.

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01-26-2013, 12:25 PM
  #918
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Well who would you be thinking of? The Leafs haven't traded a first round pick for a roster player since Toskala. We had a pick in 08, 09/ traded our '10 pick for Kessel and we've had one in '11 and '12 .
Oh damn! I remember the Toskala trade. That was another good one. Where is he playing now? I haven't heard anything about him in years.

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01-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #919
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The hardest part for me including JVR in any trade proposal is I haven't seen enough of him to really put a value on him.
Makes sense. But if you trade for Luongo, you know what you're getting. If we get pieces that are high-risk, it only makes sense for us that they have a high-reward as well.

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01-26-2013, 12:37 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
What makes you think you can get a first round pick from anyone? Please explain. First round picks are like gold these days, they are the foundation of a farm system, Luongo may be elite for another 2-3 years but that doesn't mean you give up cheap affordable elite blue chip talent for it.
1st round picks have always been considered "gold" on these boards.. it is hockeys future after all, and many posters here value potential and prospects more than actual performances and current competitiveness. That's not new here. Been reading about the overrated value of 1st round picks on these boards since I first started posting here.

In reality, GMs don't value 1st round picks as highly as posters here do. We see 1st round picks dealt all the time, and the excuses then are that the team was desperate so they moved it. Reality check - teams are often desperate and fans have no idea about the pressures that are on management to succeed now because we don't see the real $$ that come with success. Even a single playoff showing brings in tons of revenue. Fans often are oblivious to this. But given the number of so-called desperation moves we see around the league all the time, it's pretty clear that ownerships around the league aren't that oblivious to it. In many markets, and for many ownership groups, those $$ earned by short-term success means more than the potential of a 1st round pick possibly turning out.

We saw this with Burke.. this under the same organization that has already been burned before by dealing 1st rounders and top picks... go back to what the Leafs gave up for Kurvers.. then what they gave up for Raycroft. And with that history, ownership still had no problems giving up top picks for Kessel. And just a few months ago when people were arguing that Burke's job should be on the line given his disappointing tenure, most Leafs fans, even just a few months ago, believed that Burke's job is secure and there's no way they're going to trade for quick fixes. And now that Nonis is incharge, still the feeling is that his job is secure and the Leafs won't give up anything of the future for short-term success. The cycle just continues. I find it hard to believe that an organization with as much earning potential as Toronto would be that patient waiting for potential to be realized - especially considering they've had the longest playoff futility of any organization in the league.

I fully realize that this is HF, and here prospects and picks are considered gold. But I'd rather look at what actually happens in the NHL, like deadline rentals going almost every year for 1st rounders, and the reality of league finances and ownerships wanting to make money, and not what HF fans discuss as their definition of value. Fans have no appreciation for revenues earned through playoffs and what players can boost local marketing and bring more $$ to an organization. Fans are patient because the shiny new potential in that future pick gives them more hope than trying to go for it now. Maybe it if was our own money that we're losing - or seeing our own money not being maximized where we could earn so much more - we'd have more of an appreciation for the business side of this game. But that's not realistic at HF. Here's it's always been about the future, and potential seems to have more value than actual dollars earned.

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01-26-2013, 12:40 PM
  #921
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That was a good post, NFITO. Excellent read

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01-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #922
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The reality is that more teams are starting out slow who were supposed to win. I am willing to bet Gillis has a few teams doing more than kicking tires. These GM's are just as competitive as we all are. Somebody will anti up
I can appreciate the idea of teams struggling so lui can find a home.

But we cant just 'wish' teams would suck to the point of panic whereas they need to make a lopsided trade. That is a tough way to plan for a future trade.

If this is all we can wish for to get value for Lui, perhaps we should become more realistic about his value.


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Old
01-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #923
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10/10, would read again.

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01-26-2013, 12:45 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
I can appreciate the idea of teams struggling so lui can find a home.

But we cant just 'wish' teams would suck to the point of panic whereas they need to make a lopsided trade. That is a tough way to plan for a future trade.

If this is all we can wish for to get value for Lui, perhaps we should become more realistic about his value.

It's not really wishful thinking though. It happens every year. Teams need to make the playoffs for a variety of reasons. Every year we see GM's give up more then any of us would have thought. I don't think it's a bad play for Gillis to hold onto his cards until somebody feels the pressure.

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01-26-2013, 01:03 PM
  #925
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1st round picks have always been considered "gold" on these boards.. it is hockeys future after all, and many posters here value potential and prospects more than actual performances and current competitiveness. That's not new here. Been reading about the overrated value of 1st round picks on these boards since I first started posting here.

In reality, GMs don't value 1st round picks as highly as posters here do. We see 1st round picks dealt all the time, and the excuses then are that the team was desperate so they moved it. Reality check - teams are often desperate and fans have no idea about the pressures that are on management to succeed now because we don't see the real $$ that come with success. Even a single playoff showing brings in tons of revenue. Fans often are oblivious to this. But given the number of so-called desperation moves we see around the league all the time, it's pretty clear that ownerships around the league aren't that oblivious to it. In many markets, and for many ownership groups, those $$ earned by short-term success means more than the potential of a 1st round pick possibly turning out.

We saw this with Burke.. this under the same organization that has already been burned before by dealing 1st rounders and top picks... go back to what the Leafs gave up for Kurvers.. then what they gave up for Raycroft. And with that history, ownership still had no problems giving up top picks for Kessel. And just a few months ago when people were arguing that Burke's job should be on the line given his disappointing tenure, most Leafs fans, even just a few months ago, believed that Burke's job is secure and there's no way they're going to trade for quick fixes. And now that Nonis is incharge, still the feeling is that his job is secure and the Leafs won't give up anything of the future for short-term success. The cycle just continues. I find it hard to believe that an organization with as much earning potential as Toronto would be that patient waiting for potential to be realized - especially considering they've had the longest playoff futility of any organization in the league.

I fully realize that this is HF, and here prospects and picks are considered gold. But I'd rather look at what actually happens in the NHL, like deadline rentals going almost every year for 1st rounders, and the reality of league finances and ownerships wanting to make money, and not what HF fans discuss as their definition of value. Fans have no appreciation for revenues earned through playoffs and what players can boost local marketing and bring more $$ to an organization. Fans are patient because the shiny new potential in that future pick gives them more hope than trying to go for it now. Maybe it if was our own money that we're losing - or seeing our own money not being maximized where we could earn so much more - we'd have more of an appreciation for the business side of this game. But that's not realistic at HF. Here's it's always been about the future, and potential seems to have more value than actual dollars earned.

But, but, but . . . his contract suuxxxx!!!!

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