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*ALL* PK Subban talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) II

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01-26-2013, 12:37 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
If they're sure to match, why not just offer the contract now? Hell, they'll probably get a better deal than in an offer sheet situation. Is the bridge contract that much of a hold up?
Because they don't have to give in to Subban's demands. Subban's negotiating stance is weak as he is a RFA. This changes obviously if he signs an offersheet but a GM can't operate out of fear when he is in the driver's seat. No GM would make a panic move out of fear of an offersheet. They are rare and few / far between. It takes a desperate team to offersheet another. The Habs have the cap space and means to match pretty much any offersheet (or just take the 4 first round picks).

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01-26-2013, 12:37 PM
  #927
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They need to compromise - not swallow their pride. Big difference. MB needs to establish his mark on the Habs with this signing much like he did with MaxPac's. If Subban gets everything that he wants then all future RFA's will follow suit.
Agreed. But at this point, they're not even close to it. That offer is pretty bad. They want him on an MDZ deal, but honestly, he's better and much more vital to the team than MDZ is to the Rangers.

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01-26-2013, 12:40 PM
  #928
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Agreed. But at this point, they're not even close to it. That offer is pretty bad. They want him on an MDZ deal, but honestly, he's better and much more vital to the team than MDZ is to the Rangers.
I'm not 100% certain that the report of 2.5M/season is what was offered. If that is what MB offered him and is sticking to then i agree - that's just ridiculous on MB's part.

I think there is much more to the negotiation than what the rumors are. No one really knows as neither Subban's agent of MB have discussed any of this with the media. They are professionals.

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01-26-2013, 12:40 PM
  #929
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Because they don't have to give in to Subban's demands. Subban's negotiating stance is weak as he is a RFA. This changes obviously if he signs an offersheet but a GM can't operate out of fear when he is in the driver's seat. No GM would make a panic move out of fear of an offersheet. They are rare and few / far between. It takes a desperate team to offersheet another. The Habs have the cap space and means to match pretty much any offersheet (or just take the 4 first round picks).
But they would probably save a lot of money, face, and cap if they just came to a long term deal. If a team offer sheets him for 7 X 6.5 million and they match, then they have really taken it on the chin. I think a deal would already be done if they gave him 5 X 5 million.

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01-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #930
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I'm not 100% certain that the report of 2.5M/season is what was offered. If that is what MB offered him and is sticking to then i agree - that's just ridiculous on MB's part.

I think there is much more to the negotiation than what the rumors are. No one really knows as neither Subban's agent of MB have discussed any of this with the media. They are professionals.
I do agree with this. That offer just seems to ridiculous to be taken serious. I do think it was a two year offer, but for more money.

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01-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #931
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Subban to Philly close to happening.

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01-26-2013, 12:43 PM
  #932
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Subban to Philly close to happening.
Just like Weber too, right? Please with this nonsense.

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01-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #933
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But they would probably save a lot of money, face, and cap if they just came to a long term deal. If a team offer sheets him for 7 X 6.5 million and they match, then they have really taken it on the chin. I think a deal would already be done if they gave him 5 X 5 million.
The point is that GM's don't make their decisions out of fear of an offersheet. They may save money (in the longterm) with a longterm deal. But they may also save money in the immediate with a short-term deal. (MDZ as an example).

You don't make a deal or cave in to a RFA's demands out of fear of an offersheet. That's just bad GM'ing. I can see Subban signing a 5 year 5M/year deal though in a compromise. I'm sure he's looking for 6.5M/year on a 7 or 8 year.

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01-26-2013, 12:46 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Subban to Philly close to happening.
Giroux to the Habs close to happening...

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01-26-2013, 12:49 PM
  #935
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Giroux to the Habs close to happening...
Thats about what it would take.

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01-26-2013, 12:50 PM
  #936
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It's based off the cap numbers so it SHOULD be the 60m numbers. The final numbers will get posted once the CBA is published.

As for the 64.3m cap next year, here should be the numbers :

2011/12 season Cap of 63.4 mil:
$1,034,249 or below None
Over $1,034,249 to $1,567,044 Third-round choice
Over $1,567,044 to $3,134,098 Second-round choice
Over $3,134,098 to $4,701,132 First-round and third-round choice
Over $4,701,132 to $6,268,176 First-round, second-round and third-round choice
Over $6,268,176 to $7,835,220 Two first-round choices, one second- and one third-round choice
Over $7,835,220 Four first-round choices

So if a team sent an offersheet to Subban this year these would be the salary numbers used for compensation purposes then?

It's just that I was told the cap this year was still 70.2M and doesn't drop until next season so that any offersheet sent Subban's way would still use the 70.2M numbers for compensation purposes.

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01-26-2013, 12:51 PM
  #937
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The point is that GM's don't make their decisions out of fear of an offersheet. They may save money (in the longterm) with a longterm deal. But they may also save money in the immediate with a short-term deal. (MDZ as an example).

You don't make a deal or cave in to a RFA's demands out of fear of an offersheet. That's just bad GM'ing. I can see Subban signing a 5 year 5M/year deal though in a compromise. I'm sure he's looking for 6.5M/year on a 7 or 8 year.
Why haven't they offered that yet then? I'm not trying to be a ****, it just seems like everybody knows that this is the way it has to end, except for the two most important sides involved. The Habs need to come off of this bridge contract idea, and PK needs to bring his money numbers back down to Earth. Management wants him long term, why not make it happen? It's one thing to take a hardline approach, but jeez, this is getting absurd.

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01-26-2013, 12:51 PM
  #938
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Thats about what it would take.


really..

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01-26-2013, 12:52 PM
  #939
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Coming out of this lock-out i don't see many GM's throwing out offersheets. I think the prevailing winds are around more fiscally responsible contracts. With that said i would love to see someone offersheet Subban so that we can end this once and for all. It also opens up a revenge offer in the future which i would love to see (ala Davidson).

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01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #940
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really..
Why do you disagree? Dmen like Subban don't come around often.

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01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #941
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Nonis throw a offersheet!

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01-26-2013, 12:54 PM
  #942
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Why do you disagree? Dmen like Subban don't come around often.
wait you are serious

so you are telling me for philly to get subban they have to give up giroux... this is great stuff

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01-26-2013, 12:55 PM
  #943
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Why haven't they offered that yet then? I'm not trying to be a ****, it just seems like everybody knows that this is the way it has to end, except for the two most important sides involved. The Habs need to come off of this bridge contract idea, and PK needs to bring his money numbers back down to Earth. Management wants him long term, why not make it happen?
My feeling is that the lockout had a lot to do with the firm stance MB is taking. The Habs are looking for responsible contracts for RFA's through bridge deals. Perhaps they should make an exception for PK Subban because he is special but as PK is an RFA the Habs hold all of the cards. They are taking a hard-line stance. It would be nice to see more GMs taking this kind of stance so that we don't have another lockout.

I think a compromise will be had somewhere. I'm guessing 5 year 5M/year or 4 year 4.5M/year. Something like that. If its a 8 year deal then i can see 6M/year.

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01-26-2013, 12:57 PM
  #944
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wait you are serious

so you are telling me for philly to get subban they have to give up giroux... this is great stuff
No. I said it is about what it would take. That type of value.

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01-26-2013, 12:58 PM
  #945
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No. I said it is about what it would take. That type of value.
not even close to giroux type of value..

giroux is a top 5 NHL player....

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01-26-2013, 12:59 PM
  #946
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not even close to giroux type of value..
In your opinion. Opinions are not facts. I guess I rate Subban much higher.

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01-26-2013, 12:59 PM
  #947
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Montreal should just give him the money. I agree with PK that $5 mil/2 years is not enough, and at this point they aren't going to recieve fair trade value that justifies losing him.

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01-26-2013, 01:00 PM
  #948
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I don't see a trade with the Flyers as an option. If MB decided to trade Subban it would likely be to a Western Conference team. The Flyers don't have any bluechip prospects, their depth on wing is weak and they can't afford to trade any dmen in return.

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01-26-2013, 01:00 PM
  #949
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What a joke the Habs are right now. 5 mil over 2 years?? Hilarious.

Obviously the organization doesn't value Subban like the posters on here do. Giroux?? hahahaha

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01-26-2013, 01:00 PM
  #950
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Quote:
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In your opinion. Opinions are not facts. I guess I rate Subban much higher.
i think your the only one on this board to think subban will bring back value of a player like giroux...

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