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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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Old
01-26-2013, 01:41 PM
  #476
Des Louise
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Whitesnake brought up the Martin Leclerc article, and I went ahead and read it and he hit the nail on the head :
http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/blogu...de-transition/

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01-26-2013, 01:41 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
I have a question.

Why wasn't Subban skating with his teammates in Montreal during the lockout? To me, that's always been sort of weird. Contract or not. During the lockout, that didn't matter, nobody played.

He didn't play in another league.

The fact that he wanted to skate closer to home can't be a good excuse, a whole lot of other guys from outside of town stayed in town during the whole lockout except the holidays to be with their teammates who hadn't left for Europe. As a matter of fact, LARS ELLER reported all the way from Denmark and stayed here until he signed in Europe.

The fact that he didn't want to report to the team doesn't make sense either. It was a lockout, and they were player-organized workouts that included non-Habs. And yet, Subban preferred working out with the Leafs instead of working and enjoying himself with the guys he's been sharing the room with.

If he would have been MY teammate, I would have been pissed at that. I share Marc Bergevin's interrogations about the man's character.
uhmmm, simple enough. Unlike all the other players on the team, he didn't have a contract.

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01-26-2013, 01:41 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
I have a question.

Why wasn't Subban skating with his teammates in Montreal during the lockout? To me, that's always been sort of weird. Contract or not. During the lockout, that didn't matter, nobody played.
Neither was Carey Price. Price trains in British Columbia and Washington.

Gosh, this team is full of individuals!



(Subban actually did a commercial with Boston Pizza where he made the Canadiens logo in pepperoni slices and messed with a guy because he was wearing a Leafs sweater. While not under contract. But I guess he doesn't want to be a Hab.)

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01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
I have a question.

Why wasn't Subban skating with his teammates in Montreal during the lockout? To me, that's always been sort of weird. Contract or not. During the lockout, that didn't matter, nobody played.

He didn't play in another league.

The fact that he wanted to skate closer to home can't be a good excuse, a whole lot of other guys from outside of town stayed in town during the whole lockout except the holidays to be with their teammates who hadn't left for Europe. As a matter of fact, LARS ELLER reported all the way from Denmark and stayed here until he signed in Europe.

The fact that he didn't want to report to the team doesn't make sense either. It was a lockout, and they were player-organized workouts that included non-Habs. And yet, Subban preferred working out with the Leafs instead of working and enjoying himself with the guys he's been sharing the room with.

If he would have been MY teammate, I would have been pissed at that. I share Marc Bergevin's interrogations about the man's character.
Exactly, they want to see what they are getting before they sign him long term, if he's a problem in the room there may be better options.

Subban gets in more fights in practise then he does in real games!

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01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Neither was Carey Price. Price trains in British Columbia and Washington.

Gosh, this team is full of individuals!

Price was here for a while though, he did that charity tour thing.

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01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
I have a question.

Why wasn't Subban skating with his teammates in Montreal during the lockout? To me, that's always been sort of weird. Contract or not. During the lockout, that didn't matter, nobody played.

He didn't play in another league.

The fact that he wanted to skate closer to home can't be a good excuse, a whole lot of other guys from outside of town stayed in town during the whole lockout except the holidays to be with their teammates who hadn't left for Europe. As a matter of fact, LARS ELLER reported all the way from Denmark and stayed here until he signed in Europe.

The fact that he didn't want to report to the team doesn't make sense either. It was a lockout, and they were player-organized workouts that included non-Habs. And yet, Subban preferred working out with the Leafs instead of working and enjoying himself with the guys he's been sharing the room with.

If he would have been MY teammate, I would have been pissed at that. I share Marc Bergevin's interrogations about the man's character.
Huge risk for him to play hockey without a contract. If he gets hurt he's screwed. And I don't think he could report to the team without a contract.

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01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
It would be optimal because (1) it would mean that Subban would have become the complete player we all know he can be and (2) the team would avoid the short terms risk (example: long terms deal sometime result in a player playing with less urgency; a short terms contract may help Subban reach his full potential => more$$$) associated with giving him a long terms deal now.

Regarding “What ? ”: more than what Price received 2 years ago but not a “lot more” than what Price received 2 years ago = more than 2,75M$ per season but less than 5M$ per season.

As for Gorges, you can bash him all you want but the guy is a level-headed vet with solid leadership abilities. I for one, respect his opinion.

And yes, I don’t think the Canadiens should completely overlook the fact that Subban is a RFA with no rights to arbitration. If they give him a blank check now, it would imply reaching a cap related hell as soon as guys like Galchenyuk reach the same stage. The question here is: “Is Subban willing to make a little sacrifice (à la Pacioretty, Brodeur, Jackman, Hossa...) in an effort to play for and build a contender?”.
lol.here we go again.who said anything about a blank check?what is carlson makin bud?myers??hedman?i can do this all day if you guys want.

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01-26-2013, 01:45 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
uhmmm, simple enough. Unlike all the other players on the team, he didn't have a contract.
So, not having a contract means that he couldn't train with his teammates in workouts that had nothing to do with the team. Makes sense.

Also, Hamrlik, Darche & Fleury trained with PK's teammates because they were contracted to the Habs, right?

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01-26-2013, 01:46 PM
  #484
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If MB ends-up losing us Subban, it will be the worst thing since Roy left.

I know rookie GMs make mistakes, but that's just too big of a mistake, especially if he uses our best young player to set an example... what's more important, the example, or keeping that friggin player?

At least Gainey and Gauthier always ended-up re-signing the players they wanted to keep. With them, Markov never left when he could've hit the bank on the free market.

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01-26-2013, 01:46 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
And yes, I don’t think the Canadiens should completely overlook the fact that Subban is a RFA with no rights to arbitration. If they give him a blank check now, it would imply reaching a cap related hell as soon as guys like Galchenyuk reach the same stage. The question here is: “Is Subban willing to make a little sacrifice (à la Pacioretty, Brodeur, Jackman, Hossa...) in an effort to play for and build a contender?”.
Nobody is suggesting they give him a blank check.

Subban could give a little sacrifice if he wants to but he's not obligated to. And we should remember this. If he wants to be paid what he's worth, then I think it's a reasonable position don't you?

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01-26-2013, 01:46 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
So, not having a contract means that he couldn't train with his teammates in workouts that had nothing to do with the team. Makes sense.

Also, Hamrlik, Darche & Fleury trained with PK's teammates because they were contracted to the Habs, right?
Hamrlik and Fleury already had contracts in their pockets.

And well Darche is Darche. He still doesn't have a contract.

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Old
01-26-2013, 01:47 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Huge risk for him to play hockey without a contract. If he gets hurt he's screwed. And I don't think he could report to the team without a contract.
But the workouts during the lockout had nothing to do with the team. They were player organized.

Working out is no risk, I hope he's been doing it contract or not, otherwise that's another reason why he should rot.

But I really think he has. Just being facetious on that last one.

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01-26-2013, 01:47 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
I thought the same as you but it was pointed out to me last night that it was wrong so I don't know what's correct now.
according to this the cap's 70.2m for this year and then drops to 64.3m next year. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle7029575/

it doesn't make sense they'd drop the cap for this season - the drop comes for next season.

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01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
  #489
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jesus man for the ******* millionth time look around at what other players of his calibre are making.OK?do you want me too spell it out again?he wants market value!and market value is between 4 and 5 mil per.i didnt set those standards ,other gms did.so why should pk not get fair value?between hedman and myers is fair value.
P.K. Subban (Mtl): 81 - 7 - 29 - 36 - 24:18

K. Shattenkirk (Col): 81 - 9 - 34 - 43 - 21:36 elc: 1.3 m$

O. Ekman-Larsson (Pho): 82 - 13 - 19 - 32 - 22:06 elc : 1.75 m$

M. Del Zotto (NYR): 77 - 10 - 31 - 41 - 22:26 second contract : 2 years 5.1 m$

J. Carlson (Wash): 82 - 9 - 23 - 32 - 21:51 second contract: 6 years 23.8 m$

Z. Bogosian (Win): 65 - 5 - 25 - 30 - 23:18 second contract: 2 years 5 m$

These are the comparable.

2 of them are in a elc contract, 2 are in a 2 years contract just like the one being offered and only one will make 4 m$ a year. I Still think it is best for PK to sign 5 m$ 2 years and then 6 to 7 m$ for 6 to 7 years, instead of signing 4 m$ for 6 years or something like that.

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Old
01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Hamrlik and Fleury already had contracts in their pockets.

And well Darche is Darche. He still doesn't have a contract.
Then PK can't stay in shape if he doesn't have a contract? Or hang out with his teammates in workouts that have nothing to do with the team?

I'm still looking for a good answer: Why wasn't PK training with his teammates during the lockout? He did train with the Leafs though, so I guess skating with an NHL team wasn't an issue, especially during a lockout, where the workouts had nothing to do with the team and everything to do with staying in shape and hanging out with the boys, and sign a few autographs to the people who buy tickets to pay your salary that are bigger victims of the lockout than the players are.

Gorges, Cole, Gionta were here the whole time. Eller was here until he signed in Finland to get himself some game time for the season. Price was here until the holidays. And PK wasn't here. Ever.

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01-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #491
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Price was here for a while though, he did that charity tour thing.
Subban did the charity game in Toronto along with Tomas Kaberle at the old Maple Leaf Gardens.

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01-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
So, not having a contract means that he couldn't train with his teammates in workouts that had nothing to do with the team. Makes sense.

Also, Hamrlik, Darche & Fleury trained with PK's teammates because they were contracted to the Habs, right?
Hamrlik and Fleury were both under contract.

See LG's reponse to further understand the risk Subban would've taken.

Darche on the other hand, well it's a completely different situation. He probably has a paycheck from the PA.

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01-26-2013, 01:50 PM
  #493
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Wow, that is a lowball offer, Bergevin. Give him $4.5M per for 8-years.

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01-26-2013, 01:50 PM
  #494
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You seriously think that Bergevin refuses to sign him because he's an english canadian?


That's a very stupid thing to say.
no whats stupid is hiring someone based on the language they speak instead of actual abilty to do the job properly.same movie over and over in montreal.dont get me wrong i understand the importance of a bilingual gm,but has it worked in the last 20 years ?no.could geoff have hired a guy with brains and integrity that doesnt speak french ?yes.then hire him a freakin translator.lol.why this franchise handycaps itself decade after decade is very odd.and then the fans whine and complain cause the team is weak?if you want success you must hire the best man for the job,otherwise.............................

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01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
  #495
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You seriously think that Bergevin refuses to sign him because he's an english canadian?


That's a very stupid thing to say.
I never said because he's an english canadian. He could be european, russian, chinese, mexican etc.. it would not change anything.

What I am saying is that he would be signed if he spoke french and grew up in Quebec.

See the difference? Can you honestly dispute this?

@GMolsonCHC #signsubban

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01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Whitesnake brought up the Martin Leclerc article, and I went ahead and read it and he hit the nail on the head :
http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/blogu...de-transition/
Thanks for the link.

"Si Bergevin n’a pas confiance en Subban, s’il perçoit que sa valeur sur la patinoire est entachée par son comportement ou ses habitudes de vie, qu’il cesse de nager entre deux eaux et qu’il s’en débarrasse!

Et s’il considère Subban comme un rouage important de son équipe, qu’il cesse d’invoquer une politique salariale (le contrat de transition) que ses prédécesseurs ont implantée et qui, de toute manière, ne s’applique pas à Subban!

Ça fait huit mois que ça dure. D’une manière ou d’une autre, ce cirque devrait être terminé depuis longtemps."

"If Bergevin do not believe in Subban and think that his on ice achievement was tarnished by his behaviour, he should stop swimming between two waters and get rid of Subban

If he consider Subban like important part of his team, he should stop to use the bridge contract policy created by the previous GM which should not be applicable to Subban

It's has been 8 months.One way or the other this circus should have finished a long time ago."

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01-26-2013, 01:53 PM
  #497
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That's an interesting point. Meehan represents so many players, that it's in his best interest to up the ante. That being said, I hope PK isn't just a toy for both Meehan and Bergevin to get their points across.
Even worse would be using PK as toy for leftover issues from the union and owners/NHL. If so, both are toting what would be expected. All speculaion on my part.

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01-26-2013, 01:54 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by jrk View Post
P.K. Subban (Mtl): 81 - 7 - 29 - 36 - 24:18

K. Shattenkirk (Col): 81 - 9 - 34 - 43 - 21:36 elc: 1.3 m$

O. Ekman-Larsson (Pho): 82 - 13 - 19 - 32 - 22:06 elc : 1.75 m$

M. Del Zotto (NYR): 77 - 10 - 31 - 41 - 22:26 second contract : 2 years 5.1 m$

J. Carlson (Wash): 82 - 9 - 23 - 32 - 21:51 second contract: 6 years 23.8 m$

Z. Bogosian (Win): 65 - 5 - 25 - 30 - 23:18 second contract: 2 years 5 m$

These are the comparable.

2 of them are in a elc contract, 2 are in a 2 years contract just like the one being offered and only one will make 4 m$ a year. I Still think it is best for PK to sign 5 m$ 2 years and then 6 to 7 m$ for 6 to 7 years, instead of signing 4 m$ for 6 years or something like that.
And Carlson is the closest comparable.

If Bergevin is sticking to his bridge contract and loses Subban because of that, it'll be the worst move since Peanut set back the organization for over 20 years.

Bergevin is seriously putting the majority of the fanbase to his back for a matter or principle when signing our most promising young defenseman.

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01-26-2013, 01:55 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I never said because he's an english canadian. He could be european, russian, chinese, mexican etc.. it would not change anything.

What I am saying is that he would be signed if he spoke french and grew up in Quebec.

See the difference? Can you honestly dispute this?

@GMolsonCHC #signsubban
nobody can dispute it because it s true.if pk grew up in quebec and spoke french marc bergevin would be nothing more than a charred corpse at this point.

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01-26-2013, 01:55 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
uhmmm, simple enough. Unlike all the other players on the team, he didn't have a contract.
What does a contract have to do with skating on your own time with guys you have played with? Instead he skated with the Laffs and guys he didn't play with. These weren't team run workouts so it wasn't like he was doing this for the team. He did what HE wanted to do as a possible team mate that would leave a bad taste in my mouth knowing he didn't want to skate or workout with the rest of them.

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