HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #701
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
There was a lockout, you can't negotiate during it. He's not supposed to fold now that it's over. Folding would be the worst thing for this organization going forward, both for overpaying a player who hasn't earned it and for broadcasting to the rest of the league that Bergevin will crack if you go at it long enough.
Coldplay, there was plenty of time before the lockout and there has been plenty since to establish a "starting point." Kulikov, Del Zotto and Benn have been through the process and have signed contracts. It's time to hurry up and get to the take it or leave it stage. If Bergevin does, as you posted, intend to get to 4-5 per, now is the time to offer it.

As far as the danger of "broadcasting to the rest of the league that Bergevin will crack if you go at it long enough" - whether Bergevin changes his offer now or in a month, I don't see how a delay will make him look tougher in the eyes of the rest of the league. Keeping his best player off the ice for that month just makes him look foolish.

Roulin is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #702
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaTenderness View Post
Habs shoulda kept O'BYRNE
I could see this one coming.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #703
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
That's hyperbole. The sun doesn't rise and set with Subban.
Some people truly believe that.

Coldplay is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #704
Le depisteur
Registered User
 
Le depisteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Québec
Posts: 3,788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Maybe you're right, but it's not a good offer.
It's not a good offer because maybe Subban is not loved by his teammates and Bergevin doesn't want to give a lot of money to a player not loved by his teammates. We don't know all, and there is surely a good reason why Bergevin made small offer like that...

Le depisteur is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #705
EveryDay
Habs Prospect
 
EveryDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,529
vCash: 500
Bergevin is just as bad as Gainey......

EveryDay is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #706
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Some people truly believe that.
Nobody believes that. Please find me a quote where someone says Subban carries this team.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #707
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Until PK comes down from the 5+ year deal he's looking for, there is no point in upping the money if he won't budge off the term. But then again, I'm no GM.
Subban has already made it known through Stubbs that he would be willing to sign a shorter deal.

Roulin is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:39 PM
  #708
HomaridII
Registered User
 
HomaridII's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,612
vCash: 500
Btw both Gagnon and Stubbs think it ends next week with Subban signing a contract.

HomaridII is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:39 PM
  #709
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
Not moving since May sounds more like stupidity and stubbornness than negotiating :/ unless there's stuff we don't know.
According to RL article, MB feel like he can not lose face and cave in to PK. He still did not see enough from PK and he wanted PK to show him that PK is a Pro. RL accused MB to sit PK until PK yield to his contract offer or PK ask for a trade. If PK asked for the trade then the blood is not on his hand.

JustAHabFan is online now  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:40 PM
  #710
Nedved
Registered User
 
Nedved's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,363
vCash: 500
I want pk signed, but people on here really over value pk.

he didn't make those around him better, he doesn't add any additional tangibles to the team, and he is still young in this league.

he might one day become that true number 1, where his play affects those around but he currently is not there.

pk has over valued himself because of how mtl treats him. i blame the fans for his ego.

Nedved is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:41 PM
  #711
JayKing
Go Habs Go
 
JayKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,055
vCash: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Btw both Gagnon and Stubbs think it ends next week with Subban signing a contract.
Hopefully they're right

JayKing is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:41 PM
  #712
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Coldplay, there was plenty of time before the lockout and there has been plenty since to establish a "starting point." Kulikov, Del Zotto and Benn have been through the process and have signed contracts. It's time to hurry up and get to the take it or leave it stage. If Bergevin does, as you posted, intend to get to 4-5 per, now is the time to offer it.
Kulikov and Del Zotto weren't asking for a long-term deal at big money, by all accounts, so it's no surprise those deals got done faster. As for Benn, the issue wasn't paying him, it was how long to pay him for (according to Friedman).

I do think it's time for Bergevin to up the ante, but I don't think, contrary to others, he should rush to PK's door and give in to everything he's asking for. We're not that desperate (at least, not yet).

Quote:
As far as the danger of "broadcasting to the rest of the league that Bergevin will crack if you go at it long enough" - whether Bergevin changes his offer now or in a month, I don't see how a delay will make him look tougher in the eyes of the rest of the league. Keeping his best player off the ice for that month just makes him look foolish.
It's not about the delay. Bergevin has made it clear he wants a bridge contract for PK to prove himself that he deserves the bigger contract a la Price and Pacioretty. Anything other than a bridge contract at this point would be broadcasting just that.

And we'll agree to disagree on that last point. I don't think PK is the Habs' best player or their best defenseman. Doesn't mean I don't think he could be.

Coldplay is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:43 PM
  #713
MLHS Joe C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
I want pk signed, but people on here really over value pk.

he didn't make those around him better, he doesn't add any additional tangibles to the team, and he is still young in this league.

he might one day become that true number 1, where his play affects those around but he currently is not there.

pk has over valued himself because of how mtl treats him. i blame the fans for his ego.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBjD1bzCAAI-JbH.png:large

MLHS Joe C is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:43 PM
  #714
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Subban has already made it known through Stubbs that he would be willing to sign a shorter deal.
Then Bergevin needs to get it done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Nobody believes that. Please find me a quote where someone says Subban carries this team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Keeping his best player off the ice for that month just makes him look foolish.
"Best player" implies carrying this team. wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
Bergevin is just as bad as Gainey......
You guys are truly unbelievable.

Coldplay is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:44 PM
  #715
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post


Of course, Plekanec being a boss completely bucks the trend! lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
I want pk signed, but people on here really over value pk.

he didn't make those around him better, he doesn't add any additional tangibles to the team, and he is still young in this league.

he might one day become that true number 1, where his play affects those around but he currently is not there.

pk has over valued himself because of how mtl treats him. i blame the fans for his ego.
The chart above says otherwise...

Roulin is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:44 PM
  #716
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Btw both Gagnon and Stubbs think it ends next week with Subban signing a contract.
With the Habs, hopefully.

Habtchum* is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:45 PM
  #717
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLHS Joe C View Post
He doesn't make Plekanec better, trade him!

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:45 PM
  #718
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The chart above says otherwise...
Plekanec doesn't need PK...

Habtchum* is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:46 PM
  #719
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 13,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Kulikov and Del Zotto weren't asking for a long-term deal at big money, by all accounts, so it's no surprise those deals got done faster. As for Benn, the issue wasn't paying him, it was how long to pay him for (according to Friedman)
You're conveniently omitting that the stars wanted long term while Benn wanted short term. In those circumstances it's perfectly understandable that there is a holdout. The opposite ? No. It speaks to the fact our GM has a dumb stance on bridge contracts. Which someone has yet to give me a good argument as to why it's good in Subban's case.

E = CH² is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:47 PM
  #720
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
It's not a good offer because maybe Subban is not loved by his teammates and Bergevin doesn't want to give a lot of money to a player not loved by his teammates. We don't know all, and there is surely a good reason why Bergevin made small offer like that...
Talent on the ice can not be denied but characters can be assassinated. PK is intense during games and during practices. That could rub his teammate the wrong way. Do we have to chase every talented players out of Montreal because of "characters" issues. Everything has two sides. When Yakupov slided across the length of the ice to celebrate his goal, some people accused him of excessive celebration while others praised him for loving the games. We have lost enough good players under the mantra "Nobody is above the team". Stop the madness.

JustAHabFan is online now  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:47 PM
  #721
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The chart above says otherwise...
I was going to post the 97 GF what were scored when PK was on the ice, only getting 38 points out of that, but those charts are even better.

wonder how those charts will look for Markov with a full season under his belt with those same players.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:48 PM
  #722
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Yes, that's what I'm telling you. PK signing a Gorges-esque contract will take him to free agency. Why on earth would the Habs want to hamstring themselves like that? Gorges had to grow into his own before signing his long-term deal, too.



Probably is stuff we don't know, but, again, you can't negotiate during the lockout and the "since May" rhetoric doesn't really work.



Didn't say it was, but I can understand it. Bergevin is not sold on PK deserving the big money over big term, and, frankly, I don't know why anyone would be safe for being madly in love with the guy. This entire process has been clouded with emotion.

PK should watch and learn what an elite defenseman looks like, his name is Andrei Markov. I don't doubt his potential, but doesn't mean we should pay for it just yet. Again, that's just my opinion.
Exactly. PK is way too undisciplined and makes a few too many defensive gaffes to be paid like one of the top Ds in the game. Bergevin just doesn't have much wiggle room to pay him for his high potential right now.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:50 PM
  #723
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You're conveniently omitting that the stars wanted long term while Benn wanted short term.
Did you forget to read the rest of my post?

Quote:
As for Benn, the issue wasn't paying him, it was how long to pay him for (according to Friedman).
Not sure how I conveniently ommitted anything. The opposite is true for PK.

Quote:
In those circumstances it's perfectly understandable that there is a holdout. The opposite ? No. It speaks to the fact our GM has a dumb stance on bridge contracts. Which someone has yet to give me a good argument as to why it's good in Subban's case.
How is that understandable? In both cases there is a discrepancy for term, but there is also a discrepancy for $$$ in PK's case.

Coldplay is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:50 PM
  #724
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Talent on the ice can not be denied but characters can be assassinated. PK is intense during games and during practices. That could rub his teammate the wrong way. Do we have to chase every talented players out of Montreal because of "characters" issues. Everything has two sides. When Yakupov slided across the length of the ice to celebrate his goal, some people accused him of excessive celebration while others praised him for loving the games. We have lost enough good players under the mantra "Nobody is above the team". Stop the madness.
That should definitely be the next thread title.

Mods, please make it happen!

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
01-26-2013, 03:52 PM
  #725
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Exactly. PK is way too undisciplined and makes a few too many defensive gaffes to be paid like one of the top Ds in the game. Bergevin just doesn't have much wiggle room to pay him for his high potential right now.
So he signed Prust for 2.5M and expect PK to be paid the same as Prust? MB will ask PK to be paid much lower and expect PK to accept his offer otherwise everyone here will label PK as "above the team"?

JustAHabFan is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.