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Old
01-26-2013, 03:28 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD View Post
We're losing Green, Ovechkin, and Backstrom by the second.

If you want to wait for Jones be my guest. Long term it won't even make that much of a difference if our forwards are ****.

You're going to pay more for forwards than a mid-aged defenseman. If you draft Jones you're attempting on plugging the holes on offense which we can't effectively do with the cap. Grab a guy like Drouin or MacKinnon and the top 6 is solid when performing at it's potential. No excuses then about talent around Ovechkin. If you have Ovi, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Forsberg, MacKinnon/Drouin, and someone else on the top 6 there is virtually no excuse for that group.

Be my guest though. Hell, even Barkov is a better idea than Seth Jones at this point. If we were starting over this would be a good idea but we're not. We're not one defense piece from a Cup, we're one defense piece and many on offense. I count about 3/4.
OMG IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE WINNING PANIC STATIONS!!!

So according to your plan, draft only forwards (because you pay more for them) and acquire defensemen through free agency and trades? Welcome to the Edmonton Oilers.

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01-26-2013, 03:29 PM
  #102
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I'm sure glad neither of you are George McPhee.

I think...



I'm not basing it off "EA Sports" here. There are defenseman we can pick up in FA or trade for. What did we great Wideman for? Oh that's right, a third round pick.

If MacKinnon is expected to be the next Tavares or Toews you take him. You guys forget we have pieces we can trade for a decent defenseman AT LEAST. One our netminders easily fetches that and a backup goaltender.

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01-26-2013, 03:30 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
I'm sure glad neither of you are George McPhee.

I think...



I'm not basing it off "EA Sports" here. There are defenseman we can pick up in FA or trade for. What did we great Wideman for? Oh that's right, a third round pick.

If MacKinnon is expected to be the next Tavares or Toews you take him. You guys forget we have pieces we can trade for a decent defenseman AT LEAST. One our netminders easily fetches that and a backup goaltender.
So Wideman is your "suitable partner" for Green?

I mean come on. You even SAY it like EA Sports. "We need a mid-aged defenseman..."

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01-26-2013, 03:31 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
OMG IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE WINNING PANIC STATIONS!!!

So according to your plan, draft only forwards (because you pay more for them) and acquire defensemen through free agency and trades? Welcome to the Edmonton Oilers.
Not what I said at all.

If you have Carlson/Alzner/Green/Orlov and possibly Kundratek it makes virtually no sense to go out and chase a defenseman if your top 6 consists of:

Wojtek Wolski
Troy Brouwer

And currently:

Jay Beagle
Joey Crabb



lol.

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01-26-2013, 03:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
So Wideman is your "suitable partner" for Green?
I'm making a point you can find some defenseman through trades and FA.

Wideman obviously did not work. He's not a one of a kind situation here. For crying out loud if you traded Holtby/Neuvirth you get a quality defenseman already. You then pick up one of the best if not the best prospect forward in the draft if you're there.

5 defenseman = Green, Alzner, Carlson, Orlov, Kundratek.
Top 6 quality forwards on the roster: Ovechkin, Backstrom, Ribeiro


That's it.


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01-26-2013, 03:45 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
Not what I said at all.

If you have Carlson/Alzner/Green/Orlov and possibly Kundratek it makes virtually no sense to go out and chase a defenseman if your top 6 consists of:

Wojtek Wolski
Troy Brouwer

And currently:

Jay Beagle
Joey Crabb



lol.
First of all, teams don't "chase" prospects. They draft and develop them into (hopefully) the best players they can be. This takes time. Again, when do you think these players are going to make an impact? Do you think Carlson, Alzner, Green, and Orlov will all still be on the roster at that time?

Do you think the top six as it stands is built that way because it's the best offensive players on the roster, or is it built that way to try to generate some chemistry while the players are learning a new system? Or is it built that way to shake things up?

You seem to be stuck on the idea that the lineup should consist entirely of all-stars and blue-chip prospects. That only happens (surprise) in EA Sports.

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01-26-2013, 03:49 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
I'm making a point you can find some defenseman through trades and FA.

Wideman obviously did not work. He's not a one of a kind situation here. For crying out loud if you traded Holtby/Neuvirth you get a quality defenseman already. You then pick up one of the best if not the best prospect forward in the draft if you're there.

5 defenseman = Green, Alzner, Carlson, Orlov, Kundratek.
Top 6 quality forwards on the roster: Ovechkin, Backstrom, Ribeiro


That's it.
Yes, you can find some defensemen through trades. My point is that the defensemen you get through trades are more similar to Wideman than to a "suitable partner for Green".

Name one defenseman traded since Neuvirth/Holtby came into the league that a) is a suitable partner for Green and b) would have cost Neuvirth/Holtby. Then, tell me how you feel about throwing all your eggs into the other's proverbial "basket". We're not talking about established NHL goalies. These are kids, and by some definitions Holtby is still a prospect. Neither is a sure thing.

I'm glad you're not McPhee.

lol.

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01-26-2013, 04:00 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
First of all, teams don't "chase" prospects. They draft and develop them into (hopefully) the best players they can be. This takes time. Again, when do you think these players are going to make an impact? Do you think Carlson, Alzner, Green, and Orlov will all still be on the roster at that time?

Do you think the top six as it stands is built that way because it's the best offensive players on the roster, or is it built that way to try to generate some chemistry while the players are learning a new system? Or is it built that way to shake things up?

You seem to be stuck on the idea that the lineup should consist entirely of all-stars and blue-chip prospects. That only happens (surprise) in EA Sports.
Baha. I like how you continue to accuse me of being an "EA Sports GM". Look at the past Cup rosters and you'll see what i'm talking about.

If you're trying to win a Cup ASAP or "now" like they claim they are they will draft the player that can help them out as soon as possible.

In this draft that is MacKinnon or Drouin. I'm not expecting any of those players to make an "All-Star team" but if your top 6 is so weak that Troy Brouwer and Wojtek Wolski are on it then you need some help. Clearly.

You won't know how good your defense truly is until you improve the scoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Yes, you can find some defensemen through trades. My point is that the defensemen you get through trades are more similar to Wideman than to a "suitable partner for Green".

Name one defenseman traded since Neuvirth/Holtby came into the league that a) is a suitable partner for Green and b) would have cost Neuvirth/Holtby. Then, tell me how you feel about throwing all your eggs into the other's proverbial "basket". We're not talking about established NHL goalies. These are kids, and by some definitions Holtby is still a prospect. Neither is a sure thing.

I'm glad you're not McPhee.

lol.
If you were McPhee you'd probably draft Jones and trade for Subban.

Next you'll tell me when we finally do get some forward and defense help that we need to completely whipe the starting goaltender clean and take a goalie in the first round. Please.

Your attitude is that of "we don't have enough defenseman" yet I named at least four starters and possibly five that aren't going anywhere for the near seeable future.

Our defense is no where near as far off as our forward group. Johansson could be on the chopping block, Ribeiro is 33 and expecting a long term deal, and Ovi/Backstrom are not producing.

If you really gave two ***** about Ovi getting back to form you'd give him as much help as possible. Even if our defense was really stellar, we'd STILL struggle because their backs are against the wall every night because we can't score.

An offense, like another poster said, can make a defense worse. We've scored 7 goals in 4 games. That's less than 2 goals a game

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01-26-2013, 04:04 PM
  #109
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You can have the Rangers defense for all I care but if you can't score it's worthless.

It's called balance. The more immediate need here is scoring goals and alleviating the pressure from the defense.

You can pick up a mid-aged defenseman to be a quality partner with Green for years if you don't dish him after 1 season because no one can score.

There are multiple upcoming FA defenseman. Go look at it.

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01-26-2013, 04:42 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD View Post
Baha. I like how you continue to accuse me of being an "EA Sports GM". Look at the past Cup rosters and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Show me what you're talking about. I don't see it.

Quote:
If you're trying to win a Cup ASAP or "now" like they claim they are they will draft the player that can help them out as soon as possible.
When has anyone from the Caps organization ever claimed that they are trying to win the Cup ASAP or "now"? Quote with link please. In fact, quotes from the organization indicate quite the opposite. They are content to be competitive year after year and hope to win one just by being in it long enough.

Quote:
In this draft that is MacKinnon or Drouin. I'm not expecting any of those players to make an "All-Star team" but if your top 6 is so weak that Troy Brouwer and Wojtek Wolski are on it then you need some help. Clearly.
What makes Brouwer and Wolski not top 6 wingers? It sure isn't their point production.

Quote:
You won't know how good your defense truly is until you improve the scoring.
I don't know where you got this idea, but it's patently false. What is true is that you don't know how good you are in any aspect of the game until you're established in your systems.

Quote:
If you were McPhee you'd probably draft Jones and trade for Subban.

Next you'll tell me when we finally do get some forward and defense help that we need to completely whipe the starting goaltender clean and take a goalie in the first round. Please.

Your attitude is that of "we don't have enough defenseman" yet I named at least four starters and possibly five that aren't going anywhere for the near seeable future.
Go ahead and quote where I said anything that indicated any of this.

Quote:
Our defense is no where near as far off as our forward group. Johansson could be on the chopping block
Link please.

Quote:
Ribeiro is 33 and expecting a long term deal
Link please.

Quote:
and Ovi/Backstrom are not producing.
This part is actually true. Well done.

Quote:
If you really gave two ***** about Ovi getting back to form you'd give him as much help as possible. Even if our defense was really stellar, we'd STILL struggle because their backs are against the wall every night because we can't score.

An offense, like another poster said, can make a defense worse. We've scored 7 goals in 4 games. That's less than 2 goals a game
I don't give two ***** about Ovi getting back to form, nor have I ever claimed to. The day he puts full effort in (yes, in all three zones) is the day he'll get back to form. Replacing Backstrom with some rookie isn't going to help. He needs to be engaged, and that means not deliberately disengaging on D. I don't care if he's any good at it, he just needs to try in order to stay involved and maintain rhythm.

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01-26-2013, 04:47 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD View Post
You can have the Rangers defense for all I care but if you can't score it's worthless.
Tell that to the Rangers, who made the Eastern Conference Finals last season (yes, with the Rangers defense).

Quote:
It's called balance. The more immediate need here is scoring goals and alleviating the pressure from the defense.

You can pick up a mid-aged defenseman to be a quality partner with Green for years if you don't dish him after 1 season because no one can score.

There are multiple upcoming FA defenseman. Go look at it.
Who are you suggesting, and how much are you suggesting he be paid? How much money are you prepared to spend on the defense, considering Green and Carlson already make 10M between them. Will Orlov stay cheap on his second contract? Will Alzner be cheap on his third? Keep in mind that the cap actually decreases from this year to next year, Ovechkin makes nearly $10M, Backstrom makes $6.7M, and Laich makes $4.5M. If you plan to extend Ribeiro, he makes $5M.

Or are we playing with the cap off?

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01-26-2013, 05:00 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BradD
Baha. I like how you continue to accuse me of being an "EA Sports GM". Look at the past Cup rosters and you'll see what i'm talking about.


Show me what you're talking about. I don't see it.

Those teams are completely deep and not just based on defense? Their 2nd lines were spectacular?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
If you're trying to win a Cup ASAP or "now" like they claim they are they will draft the player that can help them out as soon as possible.


When has anyone from the Caps organization ever claimed that they are trying to win the Cup ASAP or "now"? Quote with link please. In fact, quotes from the organization indicate quite the opposite. They are content to be competitive year after year and hope to win one just by being in it long enough.

Capitals have made deadline and off-season moves to get further to the playoffs and the Stanley Cup. If it was "the opposite" alot of these players would never have been acquired. You make virtually no sense here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
In this draft that is MacKinnon or Drouin. I'm not expecting any of those players to make an "All-Star team" but if your top 6 is so weak that Troy Brouwer and Wojtek Wolski are on it then you need some help. Clearly.


What makes Brouwer and Wolski not top 6 wingers? It sure isn't their point production.

Um, really? No one else in the entire league believes Brouwer or Wolski is a Top 6 forward long term. They are plugs for now until Forsberg/Kuznetsov come and we add a high quality forward.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
You won't know how good your defense truly is until you improve the scoring.


I don't know where you got this idea, but it's patently false. What is true is that you don't know how good you are in any aspect of the game until you're established in your systems.

Baha, no. The offense can make the defense worse by not scoring and not playing well in their own zone. I play hockey, clearly you don't.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Our defense is no where near as far off as our forward group. Johansson could be on the chopping block


Link please.

Our defense is no where near as far off? What link do you want? Johansson is on the chopping block because he was replaced as the 2nd line center and isn't be used as the third line center. He's played weak on the wing. If they stick him on the third and he sucks, he's as good as gone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Ribeiro is 33 and expecting a long term deal


Link please.

Ribeiro has already indicated he wants to continue to play here long term.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
If you really gave two ***** about Ovi getting back to form you'd give him as much help as possible. Even if our defense was really stellar, we'd STILL struggle because their backs are against the wall every night because we can't score.

An offense, like another poster said, can make a defense worse. We've scored 7 goals in 4 games. That's less than 2 goals a game


I don't give two ***** about Ovi getting back to form, nor have I ever claimed to. The day he puts full effort in (yes, in all three zones) is the day he'll get back to form. Replacing Backstrom with some rookie isn't going to help. He needs to be engaged, and that means not deliberately disengaging on D. I don't care if he's any good at it, he just needs to try in order to stay involved and maintain rhythm.

Baha, Ovechkin will never be a good defensive player while putting up numbers of old. Never. That is not the problem we have, it's that he can't put up any points.

I'm not going to replace Backstrom with some rookie actually read my posts. I bet you think Crosby was replacing Malkin too.

MacKinnon would start as the third center and work his way up to the 2nd line if you drafted him. Ribeiro or Johansson would be on the third, preferably Johansson in my mind because I feel he can get it done. That's what Pittsburgh has done and guess what, IT WORKED.

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01-26-2013, 05:02 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
If you're trying to win a Cup ASAP or "now" like they claim they are they will draft the player that can help them out as soon as possible.
No if the object is to win the cup asap you trade the pick...

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01-26-2013, 05:03 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD View Post
Originally Posted by BradD
Baha. I like how you continue to accuse me of being an "EA Sports GM". Look at the past Cup rosters and you'll see what i'm talking about.


Show me what you're talking about. I don't see it.

Those teams are completely deep and not just based on defense? Their 2nd lines were spectacular?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
If you're trying to win a Cup ASAP or "now" like they claim they are they will draft the player that can help them out as soon as possible.


When has anyone from the Caps organization ever claimed that they are trying to win the Cup ASAP or "now"? Quote with link please. In fact, quotes from the organization indicate quite the opposite. They are content to be competitive year after year and hope to win one just by being in it long enough.

Capitals have made deadline and off-season moves to get further to the playoffs and the Stanley Cup. If it was "the opposite" alot of these players would never have been acquired. You make virtually no sense here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
In this draft that is MacKinnon or Drouin. I'm not expecting any of those players to make an "All-Star team" but if your top 6 is so weak that Troy Brouwer and Wojtek Wolski are on it then you need some help. Clearly.


What makes Brouwer and Wolski not top 6 wingers? It sure isn't their point production.

Um, really? No one else in the entire league believes Brouwer or Wolski is a Top 6 forward long term. They are plugs for now until Forsberg/Kuznetsov come and we add a high quality forward.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
You won't know how good your defense truly is until you improve the scoring.


I don't know where you got this idea, but it's patently false. What is true is that you don't know how good you are in any aspect of the game until you're established in your systems.

Baha, no. The offense can make the defense worse by not scoring and not playing well in their own zone. I play hockey, clearly you don't.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Our defense is no where near as far off as our forward group. Johansson could be on the chopping block


Link please.

Our defense is no where near as far off? What link do you want? Johansson is on the chopping block because he was replaced as the 2nd line center and isn't be used as the third line center. He's played weak on the wing. If they stick him on the third and he sucks, he's as good as gone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Ribeiro is 33 and expecting a long term deal


Link please.

Ribeiro has already indicated he wants to continue to play here long term.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
If you really gave two ***** about Ovi getting back to form you'd give him as much help as possible. Even if our defense was really stellar, we'd STILL struggle because their backs are against the wall every night because we can't score.

An offense, like another poster said, can make a defense worse. We've scored 7 goals in 4 games. That's less than 2 goals a game


I don't give two ***** about Ovi getting back to form, nor have I ever claimed to. The day he puts full effort in (yes, in all three zones) is the day he'll get back to form. Replacing Backstrom with some rookie isn't going to help. He needs to be engaged, and that means not deliberately disengaging on D. I don't care if he's any good at it, he just needs to try in order to stay involved and maintain rhythm.

Baha, Ovechkin will never be a good defensive player while putting up numbers of old. Never. That is not the problem we have, it's that he can't put up any points.

I'm not going to replace Backstrom with some rookie actually read my posts. I bet you think Crosby was replacing Malkin too.

MacKinnon would start as the third center and work his way up to the 2nd line if you drafted him. Ribeiro or Johansson would be on the third, preferably Johansson in my mind because I feel he can get it done. That's what Pittsburgh has done and guess what, IT WORKED.
Thanks for not bothering to address anything I said.

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01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Tell that to the Rangers, who made the Eastern Conference Finals last season (yes, with the Rangers defense).

Rangers offense is still better than ours at the moment.

Who are you suggesting, and how much are you suggesting he be paid? How much money are you prepared to spend on the defense, considering Green and Carlson already make 10M between them. Will Orlov stay cheap on his second contract? Will Alzner be cheap on his third? Keep in mind that the cap actually decreases from this year to next year, Ovechkin makes nearly $10M, Backstrom makes $6.7M, and Laich makes $4.5M. If you plan to extend Ribeiro, he makes $5M.

Or are we playing with the cap off?

We're not playing with the cap off. With Orlov's play he is going to be a third pair defenseman on the team. He should accept pay as a third defenseman.

Alot of people here estimate you could fit in one or two free agents and by trading several players. We likely will cut ties with Schultz and possibly Chimera.

You're not going to be paying both goaltenders in Holtby/Neuvirth. One of them will be gone by next season. Get a cheap backup and find some solutions.



10char

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01-26-2013, 05:09 PM
  #116
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No if the object is to win the cup asap you trade the pick...
For?

This is an option but it depends who you are getting at what cost. I've looked at rebuilding teams and the pieces aren't that attractive. What pieces would you get? I can't find a single piece I would want.


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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Thanks for not bothering to address anything I said.
I addressed everything you said.

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01-26-2013, 05:20 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
For?

This is an option but it depends who you are getting at what cost. I've looked at rebuilding teams and the pieces aren't that attractive. What pieces would you get? I can't find a single piece I would want.
There may be options outside of "rebuilding" teams.

Quote:
I addressed everything you said.
No, you didn't. I asked for links and you provided none. I asked for expanded explanations and you responded with short nondescriptive answers. I asked for reasoning and you responded with insults. I asked you to quote me to prove your assertions about my stance and you didn't. Lastly, in the final point, you blasted me for not reading your post, and proved that you hadn't read mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky
The day he puts full effort in (yes, in all three zones) is the day he'll get back to form. Replacing Backstrom with some rookie isn't going to help. He needs to be engaged, and that means not deliberately disengaging on D. I don't care if he's any good at it, he just needs to try in order to stay involved and maintain rhythm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradD
Baha, Ovechkin will never be a good defensive player while putting up numbers of old.

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01-26-2013, 06:35 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
For?

This is an option but it depends who you are getting at what cost.
If the object is to win the cup as soon as possible there is a 100% chance that the already NHL assets you get in return would make you better sooner than whatever 18 year old you would draft with that pick.

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01-30-2013, 04:35 PM
  #119
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McKeen's midterm top 30. I wonder if the combination of a lousy junior team and a non-flashy game may cause Monahan to drop.

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01-30-2013, 04:39 PM
  #120
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It seems that all of the scouting lists released in the past 2 weeks have put Jones ahead of MacKinnon. I mean he did just recently win gold, and his skill set was obvious every time he stepped on the ice during the WJC, but he also seemed to make a lot of mistakes. I'm a big Jones fan, but it's still interesting to note.

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01-30-2013, 05:21 PM
  #121
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01-30-2013, 08:28 PM
  #122
SimplySensational
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Bob McKenzie's "mid season" rankings tonight at 10:30. Thread in prospects board will probably have people posting it as it happens.

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01-30-2013, 09:37 PM
  #123
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http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

Top 60 from McKenzie.

Jones first. MacKinnon 2nd. Drouin 3rd.

Says Barkov is a very good skater.

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01-30-2013, 10:11 PM
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I was mighty impressed by Wennberg's hockey sense at the WJC but 11 comes at a bit of a surprise. Solid player, though.

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01-30-2013, 10:27 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

Top 60 from McKenzie.

Jones first. MacKinnon 2nd. Drouin 3rd.

Says Barkov is a very good skater.
Jones already has a DC connection, his dad is Popeye Jones the former Wizards player.

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