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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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01-26-2013, 05:04 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Roy, one of the best goalie in history...
Chelios, 3X Norris winner...
Carbonneau, the best defensive C of his era...


that's who you're comparing Subban to...
So you wait until he won multiple Norris and Stanley Cups and only then you will point the finger at MB?

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01-26-2013, 05:05 PM
  #752
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Gomez was a "proven" vet when we traded for him too, if anything that was another case of underrating our own farm to rely on veteran "leadership" The whole reason they are concerned about cap space to begin with is because the Habs have been overpaying free agent vets due to a history of mistreating our own prospects.



The Islanders have been to the lotto for the past two years with Taveres as their number 1 center. What a bum, they should trade him to us for Desharnais or Eller.

5.5 cap hit until 2018-2019 season.

great value for tavares.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:06 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Because you have a hypothesis that Subban has a big attitude issue does not mean that "surely" there is a problem with him that we don't understand.

Your post presumes that MB is being reasonable with the information, and that the offer itself is reasonable. Which is quite problematic when trying to decide just who is or is not being unreasonable.
I trust Bergevin. If he is hard with Subban, I assume he has good reasons that we don't understand well...

If you are not agree, you can send your CV to Geoff Molson, you are surely a good candidate...

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01-26-2013, 05:06 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Chelios and Roy were also far bigger cancers than Subban is.
Roy was the best goalie in the ENTIRE LEAGUE...

Chelios was voted the best D in the ENTIRE LEAGUE for a few years...

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01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
11 mil with 7 players to sign, looks like we're the next TB Bolts...
You're really not getting it. We don't have any big budget ticket to spend money on next season. The top 2 lines are in place with only Desharnais being an RFA but there is a stock pile at centre so one will have to go anyway.

Kaberle bought out makes it over 15 million to sign 6-7 players of which 2-3 spots will be ELC or low contracts from our farm team and one is a back up goalie.

The cap is not an issue, at all.

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01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
So you wait until he won multiple Norris and Stanley Cups and only then you will point the finger at MB?
Kris Letang, the best Pens D is making 3,5 this year, and 3,5 next year. Last year, before his injury, he was about to be the second most productive D-man in the whole NHL.

So, Subban is worthing more than Letang ?

Go to the NHL stats pages for the 2011-12 season and seen how PK is far from being in the top twenty in any categories.. except penalties (mostrly indiscipline) and giveaways for a defenseman.

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01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
So you wait until he won multiple Norris and Stanley Cups and only then you will point the finger at MB?
So, you expect Subban to be the best D in the ENTIRE LEAGUE for a few yeas ?? really ??

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01-26-2013, 05:08 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
I trust Bergevin. If he is hard with Subban, I assume he has good reasons that we don't understand well...

If you are not agree, you can send your CV to Geoff Molson, you are surely a good candidate...
Why do you trust MB and not Subban? You probably know both about the same amount but because one is the GM you trust him more?

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01-26-2013, 05:08 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
5.5 cap hit until 2018-2019 season.

great value for tavares.
He didn't sign a bridge contract. Cancer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Kris Letang, the best Pens D is making 3,5 this year, and 3,5 next year. Last year, before his injury, he was about to be the second most productive D-man in the whole NHL.

So, Subban is worthing more than Letang ?

Go to the NHL stas pages for the 2011-12 season and seen how PK is far from being in the top twenty in any categories.. except penalties (mostrly indiscipline) and giveaways)
It's well known that giveaways are counted generously at the Bell Centre.

And if you look at Subban's company in giveaways? He's tied with Karlsson and Spezza, the league leader is Kovalchuk. Actually if we are going to pay Subban based on the top twenty in giveaways, he's going to be in some very rich company. Everyone in the top 20 for giveaways is a top tier player except Kuba.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:10 PM
  #760
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He didn't sign a bridge contract. Cancer.
Poorest work-ethic in the NHL as well, or close to it.

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01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #761
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It's understandable that a player wants a shorter term with high dollar amount coming off his ELC so he can cash in later with a stronger statistical case. That's why teams tend to want to ink their talented players coming off ELC to longer deals because they can offer security and negotiate from a position of strenght since the player has not proven himself yet.

But Bergevin is doing the opposite, negotiating against himself trying to get PK to sign short term, only to have to inevitably pay the big bucks later. It's really dumb.
That's the head scratched right from the start for me, and that's why I initially didn't believe the rumors that MB wanted a short term deal while PK wanted the long one. It didn't make any sense as you mentioned.
The point of a bridge deal is that you have doubts about skills/progression/development. Attitude is not even a factor because if he truly is this horribly difficult player to coach, but highly skilled, you will always find a taker to give this kid a 2nd chance.
That's why it's a bit scary to me, I have no idea what Bergevin is thinking and nothing of what we hear makes any sense.
He wants short term so he can pay him more later?
His offer has apparently not changed, one bit, since May?
He wants PK to accept to less money than Brandon freaking Prust for his first year?
To make it clear, we're talking about 200K more than Emelin this year, and 700K more than Bouillon. Really Bergevin..? In what world does this make sense?

I seriously hope that all rumors leaked are just wrong, completely. Otherwise, really, I'm scared a bit to have Bergevin.

Also, say PK decides that it's simply won't work and asks to be traded. You have Bergevin now seeking offers for a trade, but he evaluated this kid to be worth 2.2M dollar for this year, and not even 3M for next season. So, if you valuated an asset to be worth this little, how can you then seek out a huge return for him??
I am really not confident in Bergevin's evaluation here (if all we heard is true), so I feel the return would be absolutely horrendous.
My only hope is that Molson blocks any trade talks.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
All the reports about him over the last two years are false... The fact that he was sent to the pressbox 4 times in two years means nothing ?

Talk about blind love.
Well this is very simple. What I'm going to ask you for is those reports, and then you'll post some rubbish hearsay, and it'll get torn apart, like it always has been. Then numerous counter-examples of Subban exhibiting an exemplary attitude will be posted, prompting you to slink back into your hole until you wish to try your luck with your next pot-shot.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #763
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So let me understand, talent not an issue but his character is?

Does he take shifts off on the ice? No
Is he a warrior? Yes
Can he carry a heavy workload? Yes
Does he work hard off ice? Incredibly
Is he accessible to media and fans? Incredibly
Has he ever been mentioned in any scandalous type behavior?No
Does he come from a close-knit good family? Tes

To me that above shows character. What you are referring to is his personality. This is where the slippery slope of racism comes from. Yes he is brash, flashy, exuberant, slightly immature (but not unlike 22 year olds) but he does not deserve the character assassinations that haters seems to bestow on him.
Please, stop making so much sense. This is a bash PK or MB thread.

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01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
He didn't sign a bridge contract. Cancer.
Tavares, 1st overall pick, most important Isles player. Period.

If you compare PK to him, you're in the left field big time.

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01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #765
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You're really not getting it. We don't have any big budget ticket to spend money on next season. The top 2 lines are in place with only Desharnais being an RFA but there is a stock pile at centre so one will have to go anyway.

Kaberle bought out makes it over 15 million to sign 6-7 players of which 2-3 spots will be ELC or low contracts from the minors.

The cap is not an issue, at all.
the Cap is always an issue when it's time to add depth. Always.

Besides, every team who wins the cup nowadays have a few players on the cheap that plays important roles (see Voynov and Quick last year, Kane and Toews on the Hawks), mostly young players on the rise...

if you're young players on the rise are all already making big bucks, where will you get those players on the cheap that allow you to pay for depth ?

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01-26-2013, 05:12 PM
  #766
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He didn't sign a bridge contract. Cancer.
Garth Snow: Better hockey player *and* better GM than Bergevin?

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01-26-2013, 05:12 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Roy was the best goalie in the ENTIRE LEAGUE...

Chelios was voted the best D in the ENTIRE LEAGUE for a few years...
You sound like if we can chase Roy and Chelios our of Montreal, it's not a big deal to chase PK out neither. Have we seen the Cup after these guys left? If you keep chasing out these good players, who is going to win the Cup for us?

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01-26-2013, 05:13 PM
  #768
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Apparently Flyers made a proposal to Bergevin that includes Couturier..

Doug MacLean @ “Vancouver Radio” : «Je confirme que les #Flyers ont déposé une offre pour P.K. Subban qui inclue Sean Couturier.» #Habs

https://twitter.com/NicolasPoulin/st...76723920715776


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01-26-2013, 05:13 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Roy was the best goalie in the ENTIRE LEAGUE...

Chelios was voted the best D in the ENTIRE LEAGUE for a few years...
They also made a lot more cash than what PK is asking. Different era, but still, PK isn't asking for Norris trophy money. Unless you think he lied about this.

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01-26-2013, 05:13 PM
  #770
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I have listened to PK’s contract situation and this Bridge Contract policy that the Habs seem to want to push on PK.

An example that is always brought up is Price and Pacioretty took the Bridge contract, which is true, however I believe it is fallacy to compare that to PK’S present contract situation.

Price was at the lowest point in his career, had just come off a season where Halak took the Habs to the third round of playoffs, hardly in a great position to demand a huge contract commitment.

Pacioretty was very inconsistent during his first 3 years, spending much time with Hamilton during that span. His NHL numbers were (123 games, 49 pts.). Much of those pts came in a small sample size before Chara injured him, (37 games, 24 pts.). So although he was beginning to show promise, was hardly in a position to ask for a huge money deal.

PK came into the league during the 2010 playoffs in a pressure packed environment, played 14 games, had 8 pts and averaged almost 21 mins a game.
Over the past two years has played 160 games, scored 76 pts., and averaged over 24 mins a game last year while also being a respectable +9.

While I will agree that PK still has things to prove, to take this stance that PK must take the 2 year bridge contract, I believe the Habs are potentially making a big mistake. Especially since they gave Max a 6 year 4.5 million per year deal when he isn’t even a RFA until this summer and has essentially played one full year as a top 6 player.

The Habs are playing a dangerous game with one of our young star players

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01-26-2013, 05:14 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
He didn't sign a bridge contract. Cancer.
i don't agree with the bridge contract. that said, a long-term deal at 4 million would be more than ideal and I think pk deserves that.

but some hab fans are making me feel like the leafs where they over value their players. pk is very good, but he still has a lot to prove to make the big money. some people are talking 5-6 mill and he doesn't do enough to deserve it.

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01-26-2013, 05:14 PM
  #772
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Apparently Flyers made a proposal to Bergevin that include Couturier..

Doug MacLean @ “Vancouver Radio” : «Je confirme que les #Flyers ont déposé une offre pour P.K. Subban qui inclue Sean Couturier.» #Habs

https://twitter.com/NicolasPoulin/st...76723920715776
I would cry

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01-26-2013, 05:14 PM
  #773
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Well this is very simple. What I'm going to ask you for is those reports, and then you'll post some rubbish hearsay, and it'll get torn apart, like it always has been. Then numerous counter-examples of Subban exhibiting an exemplary attitude will be posted, prompting you to slink back into your hole until you wish to try your luck with your next pot-shot.
Why in hell would reporters and own teamates invent some stuff about PK ?

Jealousy, racism, Name it for Godsake !

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01-26-2013, 05:14 PM
  #774
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Garth Snow: Better hockey player *and* better GM than Bergevin?
Garth Snow was NOT a better hockey player than Marc Bergevin. Come on, now.

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01-26-2013, 05:14 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Apparently Flyers made a proposal to Bergevin that include Couturier..

Doug MacLean @ “Vancouver Radio” : «Je confirme que les #Flyers ont déposé une offre pour P.K. Subban qui inclue Sean Couturier.» #Habs

https://twitter.com/NicolasPoulin/st...76723920715776
Do NOT want.

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