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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:25 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Not as much as you.
You actually wrote, why would reporters invent stuff ? Am i right ?

I think you should open a new thread and ask this question. Make a poll.

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01-26-2013, 05:26 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Go into work on Monday and tell your boss you'll work for 1/2 your regular pay. Then 2 years later go back and tell him you want 6x that and see how it goes for you.
2,5M$ is 3 times more the last year Subban's salary...

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01-26-2013, 05:27 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
This is a ridiculous argument. How many P.K. Subban's are out there? None, he's unique in what he brings on and off the ice and to alienate him to the point he wants a trade is the worst thing you could possibly do. Massive black eye for the organization and will set them back years.

lol, so ridiculous. Beaulieu "P.K. Subban asks for fair value so you have to overpay me what I'm worth because I said so you meanie".

Please
how about Galchenyuk ?

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01-26-2013, 05:27 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
28 in points(tied with 4 others.), 1st in PIM, 12th in PP goals, 7th in shots, 18th in TOI, 105 hits, Scrub.


Pay tha man. MT can keep him in line.
1st in PIM is great for you ? It's not likie he would be the main policeman on this team. he can barely fight. Half of these penalties were bad.

Third in giveaways mean what to you ? The guy give the puck to opponents way too much

He is about 75th and 85Th in hits and blocked shots while his teamates Gorges and Emelin are sacrificing their bodies beside him. Hitting and blocking shots are part of a defenseman's job.

I like PK, but he has some flaws to work on. Ansd a two-year deal is just perfect for that.

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01-26-2013, 05:27 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
how about Galchenyuk ?
Galchenyuk is a #1 23 year old defenseman? Never knew, interesting.

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01-26-2013, 05:28 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
2,5M$ is 3 times more the last year Subban's salary...
He was on his ELC, which had no bonuses because he wasn't a first round pick.

Galchenyuk with bonuses would bring home 3.25 million and has played 3 games, you think he should be paid more than the #1 defenseman by a million?

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01-26-2013, 05:29 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
You actually wrote, why would reporters invent stuff ? Am i right ?

I think you should open a new thread and ask this question. Make a poll.
Why would they ? If they are so off the wall, why does Subban and the Habs don't sue the ****ing medias ?

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01-26-2013, 05:29 PM
  #808
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The more I think about it the more I can't believe we're so close to actually losing him. Players like him are extremely rare and he also happens to be a player that we desperately need. Yes, he may be a pain in the ass to deal with but so what? We can't keep trading away players because of their "bad" attitudes.

3 years/$13.5M... Come on. Get it done.

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01-26-2013, 05:30 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Galchenyuk is a #1 23 year old defenseman? Never knew, interesting.

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01-26-2013, 05:30 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
He was on his ELC, which had no bonuses because he wasn't a first round pick.

Galchenyuk with bonuses would bring home 3.25 million and has played 3 games, you think he should be paid more than the #1 defenseman by a million?
Too bad for PK to have been selected in the second round.

30 teams passed on him in the first round and some of the same in the second. What have they seen or not seen in PK to not select him earlier ?

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01-26-2013, 05:30 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
1st in PIM is great for you ? It's not likie he would be the main policeman on this team. he can barely fight. Half of these penalties were bad.

Third in giveaways mean what to you ? The guy give the puck to opponents way too much

He is about 75th and 85Th in hits and blocked shots while his teamates Gorges and Emelin are sacrificing their bodies beside him. Hitting and blocking shots are part of a defenseman's job.

I like PK, but he has some flaws to work on. Ansd a two-year deal is just perfect for that.
You do realize he drew the most penalties in the league, and also had a top 15 Corsi-rating in the NHL?

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01-26-2013, 05:31 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you give up whatever PK asks for you better hope these kids wins you a cup within the next two years or so...

cause if you "crack" for P.K., you have to "crack" for the others if they perform well...
wrong. you trade pk because grown ass men like gio and cole find him annoying then you better hope those 2 win us a cup within the next 2 years.

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01-26-2013, 05:31 PM
  #813
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You do realize he drew the most penalties in the league, and also had a top 15 Corsi-rating in the NHL?
numbers please.

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01-26-2013, 05:32 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
wrong. you trade pk because grown ass men like gio and cole find him annoying then you better hope those 2 win us a cup within the next 2 years.
highly doubt MB would trade PK for that reason...

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01-26-2013, 05:33 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Too bad for PK to have been selected in the second round.

30 teams passed on him in the first round and some of the same in the second. What have they seen or not seen in PK to not select him earlier ?
Re-do the 2007 draft and I bet you get 3 maybe 4 players you'd pick before Subban.

Go look at the draft an find more than 4 players you'd take before him and post them.

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01-26-2013, 05:33 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Just go to CAPGGEK and check out the budget for the habs this year and next year.

This year they have already - without PK - almost 64 million $, and just 6 million in cap space.

Next year, the cap space will be at 64 million. Of course they can buy out Kaberle and let some fringe players like Armstrong and Noke walk away, but they have only 16 players under contract and about 10 milion $ to deal with.

That is a MAJOR reason why bergevin wants PK at the best price as possible.
Okay, say the Habs sign PK to a $3M deal for the next two years. That saves space up until the end of 2014. But big deal -- Galchenyuk and Gallagher are still on ELC, as Tinordi and Beaulieu likely will be, too. Those are the important guys we'll be adding and we won't have to pay them much yet. We will HAVE the space for the next two years. And that doesn't count the possibility of dumping an existing salary.

But what do we do after PK's 'bridge' ends? It's two years in the future, he's still a RFA, but now he's become two years more valuable, salaries have gone up, and suddenly market value on a great defenseman in his prime is in the neighbourhood of $7M per season. Signing that future PK long-term would cost more money for more years than if we'd signed the present PK now for about $4.5 - $5M per season.

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01-26-2013, 05:33 PM
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
1st in PIM is great for you ? It's not likie he would be the main policeman on this team. he can barely fight. Half of these penalties were bad.
Once again, he drew more penalties than he conceded. He can and probably should learn to tone it down a bit, but he's a pest and getting under the opposition's skin means taking some ticky tacky penalties.

Quote:
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Third in giveaways mean what to you ? The guy give the puck to opponents way too much
It's actually a pretty meaningless stat since different arenas count it differently. Besides that, if you look at the other players leading the league in giveaways - they are all elite players. Because if you control the puck more frequently, you give away the puck more frequently. Hal Gill hardly gives away the puck because he doesn't touch it for more than a few seconds. There's a direct correlation between Corsi and giveaways.

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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
He is about 75th and 85Th in hits and blocked shots while his teamates Gorges and Emelin are sacrificing their bodies beside him. Hitting and blocking shots are part of a defenseman's job.
Division of labor. It's why him and Gorges play together, because while Subban plays a more assertive role, Gorges can do what he does best - stay at home and do the little things like block shots. If everyone in your defense is blocking a ton of shots, it means you aren't controlling the puck and are being shelled in front of your own net. There's a reason Jacques Martin teams blocked a lot of shots. Just as puck possession increases giveaways, it decreases blocked shots. You can't block a shot if your opponent isn't shooting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
I like PK, but he has some flaws to work on. Ansd a two-year deal is just perfect for that.
He's far from perfect, and if he works on his flaws, he's going to be worth even more money.

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01-26-2013, 05:34 PM
  #818
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Would you trade Subban + Eller for Couturier + Simmonds?

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01-26-2013, 05:35 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Kris Letang, the best Pens D is making 3,5 this year, and 3,5 next year. Last year, before his injury, he was about to be the second most productive D-man in the whole NHL.

So, Subban is worthing more than Letang ?

Go to the NHL stats pages for the 2011-12 season and seen how PK is far from being in the top twenty in any categories.. except penalties (mostrly indiscipline) and giveaways for a defenseman.
Letang signed his contract in March 2010 he had 27 points that season.

If you read up on the situation a bit before talking out of thin air you'd see opinions like Dregger saying that if he was offered 3.5-4 million he thinks Subban would take it. So the number are around the same adjusting for 2 extra years of growth, both have made similar impacts in the league at time of signing, I'd maybe even say Subban a bit more. Not to mention that Subban is much more marketable then Letang so yeah if Subban is actually asking for 4 million that seems very ok to me.

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01-26-2013, 05:36 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
He was on his ELC, which had no bonuses because he wasn't a first round pick.

Galchenyuk with bonuses would bring home 3.25 million and has played 3 games, you think he should be paid more than the #1 defenseman by a million?
Galchenyuk has to get his bonus, which is very difficult...

By the way, Subban is not a #1 defenseman, except in a very bad team

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01-26-2013, 05:36 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by ScottFC View Post
Letang signed his contract in March 2010 he had 27 points that season.

If you read up on the situation a bit before talking out of thin air you'd see opinions like Dregger saying that if he was offered 3.5-4 million he thinks Subban would take it. So the number are around the same adjusting for 2 extra years of growth, both have made similar impacts in the league at time of signing, I'd maybe even say Subban a bit more. Not to mention that Subban is much more marketable then Letang so yeah if Subban is actually asking for 4 million that seems very ok to me.
If Subban is asking for Kaberle money and Bergevin won't even give him that...then it could only mean they are trying to drive him out of town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Galchenyuk has to get his bonus, which is very difficult...

By the way, Subban is not a #1 defenseman, except in a very bad team
Subban would be the #1 defenseman on the Flyers. Is that a very bad team?

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01-26-2013, 05:37 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
unless the shortterm contract is VERY reasonnable, it will never be a bargain.
Not sure what you're getting at.

The short term is inconsequential. The only benefit to a short term contract for a team that isn't looking to contend in that time frame is that you won't be saddled with an albatross if that player ends up sucking. Either way, it's not a way to lock in talented players for cheap in order to win a championship.

Overpaying Subban now on a long-term contract in the 5 million dollar range is the type of move you make in the hopes of contending down the road. If it pays off, you have a number 1 defenseman at a very reasonable price for several years. If it doesn't, the gamble didn't work and the team is in the same position as it is in now. It's not like the fans haven't put up with horrid contracts in the past. At least this one would be worth the gamble.

There is zero benefit for the Habs in signing Subban to a short contract at this stage in their development unless Bergevin delusionally thinks they can go for the Cup next year.

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01-26-2013, 05:38 PM
  #823
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If Renaud Lavoie is right:

http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/60.../154013/public

Then Bergevin is offering 2 years at 2.55/y while PK is seeking for 5+ years, probably around 5.5 or 6.

I'm more on PK's side if this is true. I'd offer 6y/30 million for sure.

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01-26-2013, 05:38 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
The more I think about it the more I can't believe we're so close to actually losing him. Players like him are extremely rare and he also happens to be a player that we desperately need. Yes, he may be a pain in the ass to deal with but so what? We can't keep trading away players because of their "bad" attitudes.

3 years/$13.5M... Come on. Get it done.
My feeling is that that figure is around what MB can live with, and he just low balled them to compromise near that figure. I think that's the case in part because PK/Meehan came in long term/higher dollar, so MB countered really low... imo anyway. Neither side has blinked, so here we are, much like where we were in October - January with the lockout. I personally am not concerned about a trade happening because it's a riskier move than signing PK to a less than desired (from mgmt's perspective) contract. I think they'll overpay him a little (in their eyes anyway) before trading him.

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01-26-2013, 05:38 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
highly doubt MB would trade PK for that reason...
If you treated PK like now, why do you think MB would not trade him? Renauld Lavoie think MB wanted to trade PK and using this contract negotiation to force PK to ask for a trade.

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