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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:28 PM
  #1001
rune74
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I think Colorado could maybe use a goalie as well.

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01-26-2013, 04:29 PM
  #1002
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Or a player who seldom reached his true potential and had the bonehead melt downs if all time, a solid defence man and a back up goalie. Allen=Kracek so it was a largely the over the hill Bert and Auldie for a much younger Lou!
So... Joffrey Lupul?

You do not get to cherry pick only the negatives. But let's assume you can.

Kulemin = Bertuzzi
Gunnarson = Allen
Reimer = Auld

Doubt Toronto likes that, which is why people should stop bringing up this trade.

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01-26-2013, 04:30 PM
  #1003
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They gave Nonis a 2 year deal. Isn't that what they gave Ron Wilson?
Nonis had this year and next remaining on his contract and when hired as GM mentioned that his contract was going to be extended and merged.

You can stop pushing Luongo to Toronto because they are desperate for playoff games and that everyone under management will get fired if they don't make it.

Please, just stop.

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01-26-2013, 04:32 PM
  #1004
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What do you think happens if the Leafs do poorly this year? And do you tell a guy he is going to get replaced until you find someone else, otherwise the guy getting fired wont necessarily have the teams best interests in mind. They gave Nonis a 2 year deal. Isn't that what they gave Ron Wilson? So far Nonis has nothing to help or hurt the team. If ownership does not see improvement he could easily be fired, don't kid yourself. I think he has this year to show he can improve the team, if not look for wholesale house cleaning. Ownership wanted Burke out of there, and this is the only guy they could hire at this point without disrupting this season even more then they have.
Nothing happens to Dave Nonis if the Leafs do poorly this year. But the goal of every ownership group in the NHL, and professional sports for that matter, is to field a winning team. If Nonis doesn't put a winning group on the ice in a few years, he'll face the same fate as Brian Burke.

Nonis is now the only voice that really matters in personnel decisions. He can now be judged just like Brian Burke was.

BTW, Dave Nonis is not the only guy they could have slapped an interim label on. The Leafs' front office is one of the biggest in the NHL with a lot of bright minds. The board could have picked from a number of guys to lead the team for a shortened season before finding an eventual replacement.

Dave's appointment to GM was not out of convenience. . .

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01-26-2013, 04:34 PM
  #1005
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Nonis had this year and next remaining on his contract and when hired as GM mentioned that his contract was going to be extended and merged.

You can stop pushing Luongo to Toronto because they are desperate for playoff games and that everyone under management will get fired if they don't make it.

Please, just stop.
No not at all, I'm not pushing Luongo to Toronto. I was purely commenting on expectations for Nonis. At this point I don't think Luongo will be traded to Leafs, though I do expect Nonis to do some things to help improve the team, otherwise what is he being paid for? If you aren't interested in Luongo anymore what is the point of being in this thread?

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01-26-2013, 04:36 PM
  #1006
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No not at all, I'm not pushing Luongo to Toronto. I was purely commenting on expectations for Nonis. At this point I don't think Luongo will be traded to Leafs, though I do expect Nonis to do some things to help improve the team, otherwise what is he being paid for? If you aren't interested in Luongo anymore what is the point of being in this thread?
Well so far today, letting you know that the expectations you think Nonis has are completely wrong.

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01-26-2013, 04:38 PM
  #1007
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Nothing happens to Dave Nonis if the Leafs do poorly this year. But the goal of every ownership group in the NHL, and professional sports for that matter, is to field a winning team. If Nonis doesn't put a winning group on the ice in a few years, he'll face the same fate as Brian Burke.

Nonis is now the only voice that really matters in personnel decisions. He can now be judged just like Brian Burke was.

BTW, Dave Nonis is not the only guy they could have slapped an interim label on. The Leafs' front office is one of the biggest in the NHL with a lot of bright minds. The board could have picked from a number of guys to lead the team for a shortened season before finding an eventual replacement.

Dave's appointment to GM was not out of convenience. . .
That is your opinion. I think something different. Just because you are a Leafs fan does not mean your insight is the truth. The same goes for me. One of the reasons I view things this way is because MLSE is starting to be run like a public corporation. If you done believe me do some research and compare some of these management appointments to other big companies.

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01-26-2013, 04:39 PM
  #1008
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Well so far today, letting you know that the expectations you think Nonis has are completely wrong.
How do you know this, are you on the board?

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:41 PM
  #1009
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion Numbers but that doesn't mean they are equally valid or supported.

Nonis has been given the reigns to run The Toronto Maple Leafs outside of this one season. It has been stated as much by several sources. It is also supported by his contract extension as well. Also, expecting a GM who was hired for 6 months and then fired as a common occurrence is out to lunch.

EDIT: It has been communicated expressly by MLSE and by Dave Nonis himself.


Last edited by marty111: 01-26-2013 at 04:44 PM. Reason: edit: To post above.
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Old
01-26-2013, 04:44 PM
  #1010
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion Numbers but that doesn't mean they are equally valid or supported.

Nonis has been given the reigns to run The Toronto Maple Leafs outside of this one season. It has been stated as much by several sources. It is support by his contract extension as well. Also, expecting a GM who was hired for 6 months and then fired as a common occurrence is out to lunch.

EDIT: It has been communicated expressly by MLSE and by Dave Nonis himself.
We'll see. This wasn't someone outside the organization brought in...this was a person who was the right hand of burke. I think an extremely short leash is here.

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01-26-2013, 04:44 PM
  #1011
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Well so far today, letting you know that the expectations you think Nonis has are completely wrong.
Thanks Dave for letting us know that. I wouldn't have believed it if not for Dave Nonis himself telling us that the expectations we think he has are completely wrong. Here I was assuming that being a GM in a big hockey market, after seeing the previous GM get fired after his entire tenure led to zero playoff appearances would mean that there's pressure from ownership to make the playoffs soon. Guess I was wrong, and Leafs ownership doesn't have that pressure on Nonis.

So what are the expectations in TO? They go another 4-5+ years in rebuilding mode? It's only been what 8 years since their last appearance in the playoffs, surely ownership won't put pressure on Nonis to make it back there anytime soon?

btw, I do find it a little amusing that we were told the same thing from Leafs fans about Burke this past offseason before his firing... supposedly there was no way that Burke was going to get fired anytime soon, and he didn't have that pressure from ownership to be in the playoffs by now. Maybe all that however was Burke's own fault? Seeing as how he came in and said he doesn't believe in rebuilding, and would only retool the Leafs, hence give up top picks for a key player and try to win sooner rather than later. Just shows though that fans aren't always the most in the know when it comes to pressures that ownership puts on management.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:48 PM
  #1012
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Oh I got it... pending means as long as Gillis wants it to mean because he was just trying to pump the market and really doesn't have a deal done.

Well I guess it's my fault for not using common sense and trusting most people's opinions in here.
hmmm what nonis says is gospel but not what Gillis says?

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01-26-2013, 04:49 PM
  #1013
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How do you know this, are you on the board?
No kidding. I'm so sick of T.O. fans confusing their own personal opinions with facts.

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01-26-2013, 04:55 PM
  #1014
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So what are the expectations in TO? They go another 4-5+ years in rebuilding mode? It's only been what 8 years since their last appearance in the playoffs, surely ownership won't put pressure on Nonis to make it back there anytime soon?
#1. No GM, ownership committee or current group of players should be held accountable for what hasn't been accomplished by groups of individuals who are currently no longer with the team. Let's get that out of the way. For example, Dave Nonis is not under increasing pressure to make the playoffs because Burke didn't or because JFJ didn't. That analogy makes absolutely no sense.

#2. The expectations that the fans have? We expect the Leafs to be turned into perennial contenders for the Stanley Cup. Much like the Cancuks have been the last five years or so. The majority of Leaf fans are patient enough to make sure we reach that level. What are the expectations of the ownership group? Well considering they have extended Nonis contract for multiple years it is expected that they see gradual improvement over his tenure to reach the status that the fans expect. What are my expectations? I think 4-5 years more is laughable as I assume you mean that as a joke. The Leafs have been stockpiling young talent over the last three to four years already and we are already seeing the effect that is having. We need more top end talent and I am okay with getting it through this years draft or hopefully through FA this off-season as well. As long as I see gradual improvement I am a satisfied fan.

Nonetheless, Dave Nonis isn't going to get fired this year if he doesn't make the playoffs. That's absurd and in no way shape or form makes any sense if ownership wants to meet the fans expectations.

Furthermore, that is exactly why Dave Nonis has gone on record to suggest he will be patient with the team moving forward in order to reach such expectations.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:55 PM
  #1015
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nonis scored us a 26 year old luongo for a 28 year old bertuzzi. Both on final year of deals. Nonis had to give Luongo 6.75mil a year with an NTC to get him to stay in Vancouver instead of walk out a UFA. Not bad for a guy who had never won an NHL award or even played a playoff game.

Nonis is not about to re purchase a 34 .....im sorry, hes only 33 and 9/10ths ........goalie with a 10 year contract and a 5.3 mil cap hit .

The cap hit is not GREAT right now. Its good. Next year, it should still be good. In 2015 it will be fair to annoying. In 2016 it will be annoying. In 2017 and beyond it will outright suck please get rid of this guy.

I have no idea why some people on here think the other GMs are stupid and wil throw out excellent cheap young talent for a goaltender which carries the baggage that Luongo now has at his age.

He was 12th in save percentage and 16th in GAA. Thats GOOD. His back up posted far better numbers with the same team, but this is about Luongo.

Luongo is NOT an elite goalie now. Hes a SOLID goalie.

Still say Ashton , Colbourne and an unprotected 1st in 2014 is way too little for this overpaid albatross?

No? Need Kadri plus plus ?

We need to move Luongo. Everyone knows it. We can put up with it until the summer but the clock runs out at that point. GMs all know it. They can just wait until then and offer us DOG CRAP knowing we cant enter next year with him.

It may not be what we Canuck fans wanna hear, but its a very educated projection of what will probably occur.

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01-26-2013, 04:58 PM
  #1016
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That is your opinion. I think something different. Just because you are a Leafs fan does not mean your insight is the truth. The same goes for me. One of the reasons I view things this way is because MLSE is starting to be run like a public corporation. If you done believe me do some research and compare some of these management appointments to other big companies.
What exactly do you think disagree with in my post? The fact that Dave Nonis will not be fired based on a 48 game season? Or is it that his voice is now the voice in personnel decisions? Or could it possibly be that the Leafs have a big front office?

Hmmm. . . I'm certainly not analyzing this with a biased perspective, if that's even possible. I'm looking at the situation in a logical, rational manner. I have absolutely no emotional ties to who is in charge of the Leafs; I simply love the team, not the management.

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01-26-2013, 05:09 PM
  #1017
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Surprised that a deal is taking as long as it has.

I think we can all accept that Luongo needs to be traded, and that TO needs Luongo. Anyone saying, "Bernier's a better option" or "We can go a whole season with Lu" is missing the point. Like sure, both those options are possible, but they're not great.

Whatever it turns out to be, Kadri + 1st or Gunnarson + 1st + 2nd or whatever they work out with picks and whatnot, TO can get back to competing for games and Vancouver can stop interviewing the goalies after every game like their job is on the line after every shift. Be good to see them pull the trigger and stop this game of chicken.

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01-26-2013, 05:12 PM
  #1018
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No kidding. I'm so sick of T.O. fans confusing their own personal opinions with facts.
Ohh yea cause it only Leaf fans doing that.

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01-26-2013, 05:16 PM
  #1019
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#1. No GM, ownership committee or current group of players should be held accountable for what hasn't been accomplished by groups of individuals who are currently no longer with the team. Let's get that out of the way. For example, Dave Nonis is not under increasing pressure to make the playoffs because Burke didn't or because JFJ didn't. That analogy makes absolutely no sense.

#2. The expectations that the fans have? We expect the Leafs to be turned into perennial contenders for the Stanley Cup. Much like the Cancuks have been the last five years or so. The majority of Leaf fans are patient enough to make sure we reach that level. What are the expectations of the ownership group? Well considering they have extended Nonis contract for multiple years it is expected that they see gradual improvement over his tenure to reach the status that the fans expect. What are my expectations? I think 4-5 years more is laughable as I assume you mean that as a joke. The Leafs have been stockpiling young talent over the last three to four years already and we are already seeing the effect that is having. We need more top end talent and I am okay with getting it through this years draft or hopefully through FA this off-season as well. As long as I see gradual improvement I am a satisfied fan.

Nonetheless, Dave Nonis isn't going to get fired this year if he doesn't make the playoffs. That's absurd and in no way shape or form makes any sense if ownership wants to meet the fans expectations.

Furthermore, that is exactly why Dave Nonis has gone on record to suggest he will be patient with the team moving forward in order to reach such expectations.
1) I don't understand how that doesn't make sense. Sure you can't be held accountable for what a previous GM has done, but why can't any business in any market expect that the losing for years and years has to stop and a quick turn-around is needed? In the end it comes down to financial impact - again as I've said something that fans just never appreciate. But if I'm the Leafs owner and I see my franchise out of the playoffs for 8 years and I see how much money I can make with consistent playoff appearances, I'm going to want to make that money and have my team consistently in the playoffs.

2) Again, fans expectations are always ignorant of money earned for the franchise. So why would ownership have any care at all for fan expectations? Especially in a market like Toronto? If the Leafs go for it and try and make the playoffs, and still suck, they will still sell-out every game, just won't make it to the playoffs. If they go for it and have 1st round playoff exists for the next 5 years, they make more money, and guess what, regardless of fan expectations, they will still sell-out every game. Ownership knows this - hell anyone who's seen what's happened in TO over the last decade knows this. So why would ownership just be happy catering to fan expectations when those expectations don't mean squat when it comes to actual revenue earned by the franchise? Of course they will say all the right things to the media and the fans, but the reality is that regardless of whatever direction they choose - whether they fire Nonis next week, next month or in 5 years, fans will keep coming, and keep paying. How much you make off those fans will depend more on how far the team can go. If the Leafs sucked for the last 8 years and had 1st round exists every year, but made the playoffs, they would have made considerably more money then they have for those 8 years, and the fans would still be going to games today at no less numbers than they have those 8 years. Bottom line, it always - in every business - comes down to money, not fan expectations. That only matters when you actually risk losing fans if you don't meet those expectations. Toronto isn't a city that has to worry about that.

And how do you know that Nonis won't get fired if they don't make the playoffs this year? Is that a written guarantee given by the ownership? Or is that just confidence the same way we heard the masses of Leafs fans declare that there's no way that Burke would get fired this season and he would have at least another year if not more to get that team to the next level? Like I said, we've heard it all before.

As far as Nonis' contract extension, didn't he just get a 3 yr extension? That's hardly a long-term vote of confidence. Most teams building with a new direction know that such rebuilding plans take at least 5 years, and most teams confident with their GMs usually give that kind of term to their GMs. Nonis has 3 years, and it's not like GMs haven't been fired well before the end of their contract terms, many, many times in the past.

And finally, as far as Nonis going on record saying he will be patient - this isn't a "exactly why he's gone on record" situation because he feels secure. Nonis went on record during his last year in Vancouver preaching patience as well, and refusing to make quick fixes to improve the team. He was fired soon after that. He's already been in a situation where he's preached patience and got fired for it, so why would you assume that he's going on record now preaching patience because he feels secure?

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01-26-2013, 05:24 PM
  #1020
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Surprised that a deal is taking as long as it has.

I think we can all accept that Luongo needs to be traded, and that TO needs Luongo. Anyone saying, "Bernier's a better option" or "We can go a whole season with Lu" is missing the point. Like sure, both those options are possible, but they're not great.

Whatever it turns out to be, Kadri + 1st or Gunnarson + 1st + 2nd or whatever they work out with picks and whatnot, TO can get back to competing for games and Vancouver can stop interviewing the goalies after every game like their job is on the line after every shift. Be good to see them pull the trigger and stop this game of chicken.
They're not great options but it's better then overpaying for Luongo. I think anything with Kadri or our first is stupid to give up, it really is, playoffs or no playoffs. Anyone who's followed Kadri knows that he's really starting to come into his own, he's dominated play so far this year 5 its in 4 games and he'' continue to get better. Our first round pick will more than likely be a lottery pick if all predictions go to plan so once again that is tremendous value to give up. Is it worth giving up (MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin possibly) for Luongo, of course not. It's ludicrous. We need a #1 center more so a goalie IMO

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01-26-2013, 05:24 PM
  #1021
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1) I don't understand how...
1) I can't explain it any better then I have. If you fold under pressure like you suggest then the LEAFS will NEVER improve for the better.

2) Making the playoffs consistently and going deep in the playoffs is the biggest profitable situation ownership could be in. It make sense that they would want that.

3) I believe a three year extension on top of the two years still remaining, pretty standard if you ask me. And of course I can't tell you unequivocally what will happen in the future but it's completely absurd to think Nonis would be given millions of dollars to only be fired 48 games later. Probably as likely as Roberto Luongo wanting to quit hockey and become an astronaut. No one makes that argument because it's silly. Much like the argument Numbers was making to facilitate his opinion on Luongo's trade value.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn't make as valid or supported as someone elses. That's the point of reason and research and so on.

If you ask me, your idea of Luongo to the NYI makes so much sense on so many levels. Well thought out.


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01-26-2013, 05:25 PM
  #1022
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I meant points*

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01-26-2013, 05:26 PM
  #1023
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Ohh yea cause it only Leaf fans doing that.
Not saying it is... But when T.O. fans come in here just to tell everyone what the board has in mind and what the mandate is then it's crossed over to ridiculous. I never said Leafs fans were the only ones. But they are the overwhelming majority who seem to know exactly what the rest of us don't.

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01-26-2013, 05:35 PM
  #1024
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Not saying it is... But when T.O. fans come in here just to tell everyone what the board has in mind and what the mandate is then it's crossed over to ridiculous. I never said Leafs fans were the only ones. But they are the overwhelming majority who seem to know exactly what the rest of us don't.
I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Teams do not give interim GMs two year extensions. Teams also do not fire GMs based on 48 game seasons.

It's not about what the board has planned, it's about looking at the situation logically.

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01-26-2013, 05:38 PM
  #1025
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I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Teams do not give interim GMs two year extensions. Teams also do not fire GMs based on 48 game seasons.

It's not about what the board has planned, it's about looking at the situation logically.
This ^

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