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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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01-26-2013, 06:10 PM
  #851
Habit11
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I'd believe that if MB had budged at all. But word is PK came off the long term to a 2 year deal and MB hasn't moved on term or dollars since his original offer in May.

It sounds like he's trying to run him out of town to me.
Where did you hear that? Lavoie and others have said he wants 5 years minimum.

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01-26-2013, 06:11 PM
  #852
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Not sure what you're getting at.

The short term is inconsequential.
The only benefit to a short term contract for a team that isn't looking to contend in that time frame is that you won't be saddled with an albatross if that player ends up sucking. Either way, it's not a way to lock in talented players for cheap in order to win a championship.

Overpaying Subban now on a long-term contract in the 5 million dollar range is the type of move you make in the hopes of contending down the road. If it pays off, you have a number 1 defenseman at a very reasonable price for several years. If it doesn't, the gamble didn't work and the team is in the same position as it is in now. It's not like the fans haven't put up with horrid contracts in the past. At least this one would be worth the gamble.

There is zero benefit for the Habs in signing Subban to a short contract at this stage in their development unless Bergevin delusionally thinks they can go for the Cup next year.
simple, let's say he was looking for 4.5 per over 6 years, total 27 mil... compared to lets say, the 5 mil over 2 years now and then another 4 years at 5.5 per (wanting to make up for what he lost on his bridge contract. You end up paying him 27 Mil over the next 6 years anyway... in both cases it's the same total amount, there is no bargain whatsoever.


IT IS a way to contend, and pretty much the only way nowadays...


So, what you're saying it's worth gambling since, as you said, worst thing to happen is you're back to where we are now.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:11 PM
  #853
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Where did you hear that? Lavoie and others have said he wants 5 years minimum.
PK said it himself in the Stubbs interview. He'd take the short term, but it's not his preference. Either way, the $$$ have to be "fair".

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01-26-2013, 06:12 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Why would we not want a Benn contracT?
because pk is a pomme pourrie!!!!!DJD!O!

honestly, i really hate to speculate put you put it all together either MB is a terrible evaluator of talent or we are trying to push him out.

i mean if cam freaking fowler who was a -25 on a team where the number 1D was +32 can get 4 mil a year surely pk is worth more than 2.5?

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01-26-2013, 06:15 PM
  #855
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PK is LONG gone. It's unfortunate.
You should also ask Mr Gazoo who's gonna win the next Stanley cup.


troll

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:16 PM
  #856
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We just better not be stupid enough to trade him. Simple as that.

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01-26-2013, 06:17 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Was listening to XM Hockey and they were interviewing Andy Strickland. Here were his thoughts.

PK is a number one only by virtue of him being on the Canadiens. If he were on New York he'd be behind McD, Staal and wouldn't be ahead of Delzotto. So Strickland sees him as being the equivalent to MDZ and feels that's what his monetary worth is.

I uh, disagree.

If we're lucky, he knuckles under now. I agree though, if he does this he kills us next time his contract is due. No question about it. And I won't blame him one bit. This is not the way to negotiate.

Maybe he's of the Strickland mindsight. There seem to be some people out there that agree with him.

I felt he played much better in the 2nd half. He didn't put up the points I was hoping he would last year but that's also partly due to our forwards not producing. I felt like he developed very well last season and I liked the fact that he didn't seem to be making the unforced errors that I'd seen earlier in his career. He's come a long way.

We haven't heard anything about immaturity. Unlike other players he's been an angel off the ice. We've heard people blast him for trash talking on the ice and there were some dust ups in practice but that's about it.

Nothing to see here man, move on. Hockey is full of REAL troublemakers and they still do very well. What matters is what they do on the ice. PK has done nothing to suggest that we need to deal him.

I guess... but haven't we seen enough from PK? I get the bridge move and I would've thought PK would accept it. Then again I thought we were offering him some decent cash. Now we've heard from his agent that he's okay with the term it's just the cash.

Why are we messing around with this?
Andy Strickland has obviously never seen PK Subban play, or has only in small portions.
I find it funny how everyone is saying that he is only a number one by virtue of him playing on a bad team. You don't think PK would look better if he was playing for a better team? And in a system that actually tried to play in the offensive zone from time to time?
Listen folks, if PK had been traded to the Rangers instead of McDonaugh, PK would be on par with Staal and would be ahead of Girardy (maybe not in terms of minutes, but in terms of importance). And it's not even debatable in my mind.
If he was traded to them today he would be considered at the same level as the other 3 before the trade deadline.
There's a reason why Komisarek looked so good playing with Markov. Playing with good players usually makes you look better.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:17 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
PK said it himself in the Stubbs interview. He'd take the short term, but it's not his preference. Either way, the $$$ have to be "fair".
Not seeing a PK quote relating to length. All I've read is Stubbs saying this
Quote:
preferably but not necessarily linked to a long-term deal, and the Canadiens are seemingly inflexible with their plan to offer short term,
Stubbs' words, not PK.

That doesn't mean PK agreed to a 2 year deal.

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01-26-2013, 06:18 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
But what's wrong with that?..
I'll gladly wish for Gally to be locked up at a cheaper price after his ELC if he became our #1 center, as opposed to paying him bigger bucks when he reaches 4-5years of experience and is even better.
what's the last team to have won a cup with 4 or 5 players making an average of 5 or Mil ?

(Kings arent them, Carter cost them 1.2 Mil on the cap)

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01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
because pk is a pomme pourrie!!!!!DJD!O!

honestly, i really hate to speculate put you put it all together either MB is a terrible evaluator of talent or we are trying to push him out.

i mean if cam freaking fowler who was a -25 on a team where the number 1D was +32 can get 4 mil a year surely pk is worth more than 2.5?
He would be, however, PK is the devil incarnate in the locker room. It is said his head started to rotate while vomiting green gatorade and doing the Joel last season. This brings his value down.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
what's the last team to have won a cup with 4 or 5 players making an average of 5 or more ?

(Kings arent them, Carter cost them 1.2 Mil on the cap)
edit: typo

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:20 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And it matches Bob Mac's hints earlier too. It's becoming credible-ish, and fits with an explanation for why PK isn't signed and is having such a hard time with this.

I think PK has to give up the dream and move on. *IF* $2.2 and $2.9M is real, then the organization really is basically pushing him out. It's too much of a lowball to be taken as anything else. I'm amazed PK is even taking time to think about it, a real testament to his desire to play for the Habs. If he does take it, wow, that was taking one for the team in a way we haven't seen in a long time.

Habs new management is going to take a big ding with this saga, alas, unless PK comes through and takes their insulting offer and saves face for them. For the good of all of us, please take it PK! We can't survive the fallout otherwise, the endless trade threads, the future angst, the looks back in hindsight.
Even if PK takes the 2 year deal, once that is over he will be 2 years away from UFA. Having already been "Cheated" he might no longer be interested in signing long term with the Habs and instead just go to arbitration until he becomes UFA and then go sign with a team that "appreciates" him.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:21 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And it matches Bob Mac's hints earlier too. It's becoming credible-ish, and fits with an explanation for why PK isn't signed and is having such a hard time with this.

I think PK has to give up the dream and move on. *IF* $2.2 and $2.9M is real, then the organization really is basically pushing him out. It's too much of a lowball to be taken as anything else. I'm amazed PK is even taking time to think about it, a real testament to his desire to play for the Habs. If he does take it, wow, that was taking one for the team in a way we haven't seen in a long time.

Habs new management is going to take a big ding with this saga, alas, unless PK comes through and takes their insulting offer and saves face for them. For the good of all of us, please take it PK! We can't survive the fallout otherwise, the endless trade threads, the future angst, the looks back in hindsight.
I'm not really optimistic about PK's future here, if those numbers are true.
I mean, if they find a just middle, bridge contract 3.5-4.5M per, then it may salvage the relationship. But if he takes a 2.5M cap hit for 2 years, I think that in the next contract he will really ask for the moon that time either through negotiation or arbitration. If that's the case, he might just sign another short deal and wait for UFA to get out of hear.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:23 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
what's the last team to have won a cup with 4 or 5 players making an average of 5 or Mil ?

(Kings arent them, Carter cost them 1.2 Mil on the cap)
Wings
Zets-Dats-Lids-Raf

Pens
Crosby-Malkin-Fleury-Gonchar

And Crosby and Malkin made more than 5m

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01-26-2013, 06:24 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
You should also ask Mr Gazoo who's gonna win the next Stanley cup.


troll
He is gone. The Habs do not think highly of him. His maturity issues have been overstated. They are basically lowballing him because they feel his attitude is more important than his productivity on the ice.

Whether PK signs or not, the damage is done. I believe he will be traded even if he signs a contract.

All this posturing over a 1 year deal essentially to show "maturity" (this season's pretty much done). It's unfortunate.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:26 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Wings
Zets-Dats-Lids-Raf

Pens
Crosby-Malkin-Fleury-Gonchar

And Crosby and Malkin made more than 5m
Crosby and Malkin making 8.7 each and our highest player is Price at 6.5. Like Fleury makes 5.5 ffs

Krejci, Bergeron, Tim Thomas, Chara, unless Krecji got his contract afterwards, can't remember.

Gionta and Pleky make 5 right on and only Price and Markov are making over it.

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01-26-2013, 06:28 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
what's the last team to have won a cup with 4 or 5 players making an average of 5 or Mil ?

(Kings arent them, Carter cost them 1.2 Mil on the cap)
Well first off, 5m 4 years ago is completely different than 5M today. I mean, the cap is 30M more today than it was after the last lockout.
So, you can't really go by that.

Second, who do we have that makes 5M or +? Plekanec, Gionta, Price and Markov. So, we already have four of them. Then we have Cole, at 4.5M. Not to mention Kaberle at 4.25M.
If we have to alienate PK from the Habs because of stupid contracts to Cole, Kaberle and Gionta, then it's just sad. Get rid of all those guys. What are the chances we'll win a cup with Gionta here at 5M? Or kaberle?
If it's them or PK, I'll chose PK 100% of the time.

As for your question, right at the top of my head, pretty sure Detroit and Pittsburgh won the cup with 4 guys over 5M, and again, that's with lower caps. Maybe even Boston, and damn close with Chicago too.

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01-26-2013, 06:29 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He is gone. The Habs do not think highly of him. His maturity issues have been overstated. They are basically lowballing him because they feel his attitude is more important than his productivity on the ice.

Whether PK signs or not, the damage is done. I believe he will be traded even if he signs a contract.

All this posturing over a 1 year deal essentially to show "maturity" (this season's pretty much done). It's unfortunate.
OMG. since you've said so, there's no other choice than to believe your great wisdom.

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01-26-2013, 06:30 PM
  #869
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Well first off, 5m 4 years ago is completely different than 5M today. I mean, the cap is 30M more today than it was after the last lockout.
So, you can't really go by that.

Second, who do we have that makes 5M or +? Plekanec, Gionta, Price and Markov. So, we already have four of them. Then we have Cole, at 4.5M. Not to mention Kaberle at 4.25M.
If we have to alienate PK from the Habs because of stupid contracts to Cole, Kaberle and Gionta, then it's just sad. Get rid of all those guys. What are the chances we'll win a cup with Gionta here at 5M? Or kaberle?
If it's them or PK, I'll chose PK 100% of the time.

As for your question, right at the top of my head, pretty sure Detroit and Pittsburgh won the cup with 4 guys over 5M.
And at the worst, Gionta and Kaberle are here for 1 more year after this season. 9.25 million in cap right there, and with the way things are going right now the cap is bound to go up again after next year.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Wings
Zets-Dats-Lids-Raf

Pens
Crosby-Malkin-Fleury-Gonchar

And Crosby and Malkin made more than 5m
if my memory serves me right, Malkin wasnt at the salary he is no in 08/09, think he was at 3.5 or something...



besides, look at the players, on one side you have Crosby - Malkin, on the other you have Datsuyk alongside one of the best D in history...

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:33 PM
  #871
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OMG. since you've said so, there's no other choice than to believe your great wisdom.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:33 PM
  #872
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Well first off, 5m 4 years ago is completely different than 5M today. I mean, the cap is 30M more today than it was after the last lockout.
So, you can't really go by that.

Second, who do we have that makes 5M or +? Plekanec, Gionta, Price and Markov. So, we already have four of them. Then we have Cole, at 4.5M. Not to mention Kaberle at 4.25M.
If we have to alienate PK from the Habs because of stupid contracts to Cole, Kaberle and Gionta, then it's just sad. Get rid of all those guys. What are the chances we'll win a cup with Gionta here at 5M? Or kaberle?
If it's them or PK, I'll chose PK 100% of the time.

As for your question, right at the top of my head, pretty sure Detroit and Pittsburgh won the cup with 4 guys over 5M, and again, that's with lower caps. Maybe even Boston, and damn close with Chicago too.
Nope, Kane/Toews were at a way lower salary than they are now... they also had Buff and Keith on the cheap (well, relatively cheap)

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:33 PM
  #873
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Even if PK takes the 2 year deal, once that is over he will be 2 years away from UFA. Having already been "Cheated" he might no longer be interested in signing long term with the Habs and instead just go to arbitration until he becomes UFA and then go sign with a team that "appreciates" him.
That would be his right.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:34 PM
  #874
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PK is LONG gone. It's unfortunate.
Really ? Did i miss something ?

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01-26-2013, 06:36 PM
  #875
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Really ? Did i miss something ?
well he said that he is gone

that should be quite enough

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