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Quebec City Part VII: Si J'avais les ailes d'un ange

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01-26-2013, 10:52 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Coramoor View Post
It took the Wild 3 seasons to get to the playoffs, I really think Quebec fans would be extremely happy if it only took that long
The wild did ok, and yes 3 years was great. But it took 9 seasons for the Blue Jackets to make the playoffs and never made them ever again. They also have never won a playoff game in their 12year history. I'm not sure Quebec fans would be too happy about that.

Again, given the choice, the Coyotes, if they have to relocate, is by far the best solution for QC.

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01-26-2013, 10:59 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
The wild did ok, and yes 3 years was great. But it took 9 seasons for the Blue Jackets to make the playoffs and never made them ever again. They also have never won a playoff game in their 12year history. I'm not sure Quebec fans would be too happy about that.

Again, given the choice, the Coyotes, if they have to relocate, is by far the best solution for QC.
exceptional mismanagement and terrible drafting

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01-26-2013, 12:13 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
The wild did ok, and yes 3 years was great. But it took 9 seasons for the Blue Jackets to make the playoffs and never made them ever again. They also have never won a playoff game in their 12year history. I'm not sure Quebec fans would be too happy about that.

Again, given the choice, the Coyotes, if they have to relocate, is by far the best solution for QC.
The best thing of all would have been if the Nords never moved and won the Stanley Cup in Québec... (forget about the whole Patrick Roy thing )

Having a current NHL team that you can root for is the best thing of all; it's a worthless cause to complain that you got an expansion team rather than a relocated team.

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01-26-2013, 12:35 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
The best thing of all would have been if the Nords never moved and won the Stanley Cup in Québec... (forget about the whole Patrick Roy thing )

Having a current NHL team that you can root for is the best thing of all; it's a worthless cause to complain that you got an expansion team rather than a relocated team.
We'll never know if the Nordiques would have won had they stayed in QC. We can discuss all night long it won't change that fact. What we do know, is that this team moved and won.

Now, if the NHL relocates a team to Seatle and give an expansion to Quebec city, which the point I've been trying to make for a while now, it will be one last jab from Bettman to QC. Like saying, ok you get a team, but it'll suck.

The mood I'm feeling from QC fans is no matter what as long as we have a team. In my mind, if the NHL would relocate a team anywhere but QC first and then offers an expansion team to QC, its just Bettman's way to say fu QC.

Again, you may disagree. It's just how I view it. Just under a week before we know if the Coyotes are saved. Then we'll know where the NHL stands vs QC.

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01-26-2013, 01:27 PM
  #480
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I guess that's the case considering QC is more "ready" than Seattle for an NHL team right now (Colisée > KeyArena and I think everyone would say a more rabid hockey fanbase), but I'll wait for the NHL's explanation.

Like you said though, this discussion only matters if the Coyotes move.

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01-26-2013, 05:19 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Shawa666 View Post
Sure a Relocation is a better option, but in internet parlance, Doesn't matter, Had sex.
Guys, don't kill the meme, it could be a good thread title if we get an expansion team

I have mixed feelings about whether PKP would get into a bidding war for an expansion team. I don't think it's relevant that he didn't overbid for the Habs. Back then the Thrashers, Coyotes, Isles and perhaps the Lightning (don't quite remember the timeline) were realistic relocation targets, so he could afford to pass on the Habs as his network wasn't quite ready either. Now, if the Coyotes issues is settled somehow (Arizona or Seattle), expansion is the end of the line so he may need to be aggressive.

On the other hand, bidding against RDS/Bell for Habs TV rights might prove cheaper than going up against Markham or wherever. But the again, RDS without the Habs probably isn't worth much so it wouldn't be that cheap.

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01-26-2013, 05:31 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
The mood I'm feeling from QC fans is no matter what as long as we have a team. In my mind, if the NHL would relocate a team anywhere but QC first and then offers an expansion team to QC, its just Bettman's way to say fu QC.
You DO realize that Gary Bettman isn't "out to get" Quebec right? There is no "vendetta" against Canada. From a business standpoint it makes more sense to put a ready made playoff team in a new market and put an expansion team in a proven market that will sell out regardless.

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01-26-2013, 05:38 PM
  #483
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You DO realize that Gary Bettman isn't "out to get" Quebec right? There is no "vendetta" against Canada. From a business standpoint it makes more sense to put a ready made playoff team in a new market and put an expansion team in a proven market that will sell out regardless.
Actually you relocate the team to a proven market (QC) with an adequate (15K) temporary arena and new arena ALREADY under construction BEFORE an unproven market (Seattle) where NHL hockey may or may NOT work with NO adequate temporary arena and with NO guarantee a new arena will even be built!

Does anyone really believe they would have started building a brand new 18K arena in QC without assurances from the NHL that a NHL team would go into it?

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01-26-2013, 05:44 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Actually you relocate the team to a proven market (QC) with a adequate (15K) temporary arena and new arena under construction BEFORE an unproven market (Seattle) where NHL hockey may or may NOT work with NO adequate temporary arena and with no guarantee a new arena will even be built!
The whole idea is the get the new market interested right away. The best way to do that is with a competitive team. The proven market is going to sell out regardless of whether the team stinks or not. You're going to maximize profits in the proven market right away regardless. In a fresh market you want to hook people in ASAP to maximize your profits. Columbus is a perfect example of how NOT to go into a new market.

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01-26-2013, 05:45 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Does anyone really believe they would have started building a brand new 18K arena in QC without assurances from the NHL that a NHL team would go into it?
Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

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01-26-2013, 05:55 PM
  #486
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The tv market in quebec is huge we have biases some don't like certain types of people but please in terms of economic strength Quebec City is one of the better areas for a nhl team and yes Seattle in terms of pop and corporate power.Houston kansascity and even portland oregon would be interesting sites

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01-26-2013, 06:00 PM
  #487
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The tv market in quebec is huge we have biases some don't like certain types of people but please in terms of economic strength Quebec City is one of the better areas for a nhl team and yes Seattle in terms of pop and corporate power.Houston kansascity and even portland oregon would be interesting sites
I'd be shocked if Kansas City got a team. I just don't see the interest there. Portland is problematical because Allen's never shown any interest in owning an NHL team and he basically controls sports in Portland. Houston worries me as it's always been a "boom or bust" town.

Push comes to shove I figure the most likely markets are Quebec, Seattle, and a second team in Toronto.

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01-26-2013, 06:08 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Actually you relocate the team to a proven market (QC) with an adequate (15K) temporary arena and new arena ALREADY under construction BEFORE an unproven market (Seattle) where NHL hockey may or may NOT work with NO adequate temporary arena and with NO guarantee a new arena will even be built!

Does anyone really believe they would have started building a brand new 18K arena in QC without assurances from the NHL that a NHL team would go into it?
Btw Seattle is also aiming to get a NBA team. If NBA BOG approves Kings sale to Seattle's group the arena will get built. If that happens shovel meets ground could potentially happen as early as this September/October once final approval by city and county post EIS review.

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01-26-2013, 06:21 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
I'd be shocked if Kansas City got a team. I just don't see the interest there. Portland is problematical because Allen's never shown any interest in owning an NHL team and he basically controls sports in Portland. Houston worries me as it's always been a "boom or bust" town.

Push comes to shove I figure the most likely markets are Quebec, Seattle, and a second team in Toronto.
Allen put in a bid for the Pittsburgh Penguins when they were in bankruptcy. I think it was $85 million IIRC

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01-26-2013, 06:41 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
You DO realize that Gary Bettman isn't "out to get" Quebec right? There is no "vendetta" against Canada. From a business standpoint it makes more sense to put a ready made playoff team in a new market and put an expansion team in a proven market that will sell out regardless.
I have my doubts about Bettman. IF the Coyotes deal falls through AND are relocated anywhere but in QC, there's nothing that will convince me that it isn't Bettman's last FU to Canadian market and QC.

As far as Seattle goes, it is an unproven market and hockey will be behind the NFL, NBA, MLB and possibly MLS Soccer. If I was the NHL, I would let things go for a while and be careful before putting a new franchise in this already crowded market. The last thing they want is another Arizonian fiasco. I'm not saying it will. Just that it could. Plus they wouldn't have a decent place to play for at least the next two season. Time will tell I guess.

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01-26-2013, 06:45 PM
  #491
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Allen put in a bid for the Pittsburgh Penguins when they were in bankruptcy. I think it was $85 million IIRC
That was a while ago though. From everything I've heard of late he isn't interested anymore.

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01-26-2013, 06:46 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Actually you relocate the team to a proven market (QC) with an adequate (15K) temporary arena and new arena ALREADY under construction BEFORE an unproven market (Seattle) where NHL hockey may or may NOT work with NO adequate temporary arena and with NO guarantee a new arena will even be built!

Does anyone really believe they would have started building a brand new 18K arena in QC without assurances from the NHL that a NHL team would go into it?
If the Maloof to Hansen deal for the Kings goes through, a new arena's getting built, so that's a non-issue. As for temporary arena, it may be woefully insufficient, but they'd use Key Arena. And finally, as for unproven market.... it may be, but it's also a very large market with a huge amount of corporate sponsorship capacity and in area of the U.S. untapped by the NHL, so the possible benefits very likely well outweigh the risks in the league's mind for Seattle.

All that being said though, the prospect of any market getting an NHL and an NBA team at the same time seems like it's just asking for both to suffer from split disposable income.

If the Yotes deal does fall through, I'd still rank Quebec City as the frontrunner for getting them, especially as you can better believe that PKP would be willing to spend a lot more to buy the team and pay relocation fees than a Seattle-based group. Then, in a few years, Seattle and Houston will land expansion teams.

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01-26-2013, 06:49 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
If the Maloof to Hansen deal for the Kings goes through, a new arena's getting built, so that's a non-issue. As for temporary arena, it may be woefully insufficient, but they'd use Key Arena. And finally, as for unproven market.... it may be, but it's also a very large market with a huge amount of corporate sponsorship capacity and in area of the U.S. untapped by the NHL, so the possible benefits very likely well outweigh the risks in the league's mind for Seattle.

All that being said though, the prospect of any market getting an NHL and an NBA team at the same time seems like it's just asking for both to suffer from split disposable income.

If the Yotes deal does fall through, I'd still rank Quebec City as the frontrunner for getting them, especially as you can better believe that PKP would be willing to spend a lot more to buy the team and pay relocation fees than a Seattle-based group. Then, in a few years, Seattle and Houston will land expansion teams.
Phoenix to Seattle makes the most sense with an NBA/NHL team under one owner.

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01-26-2013, 06:49 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
If the Maloof to Hansen deal for the Kings goes through, a new arena's getting built, so that's a non-issue. As for temporary arena, it may be woefully insufficient, but they'd use Key Arena. And finally, as for unproven market.... it may be, but it's also a very large market with a huge amount of corporate sponsorship capacity and in area of the U.S. untapped by the NHL, so the possible benefits very likely well outweigh the risks in the league's mind for Seattle.

All that being said though, the prospect of any market getting an NHL and an NBA team at the same time seems like it's just asking for both to suffer from split disposable income.

If the Yotes deal does fall through, I'd still rank Quebec City as the frontrunner for getting them, especially as you can better believe that PKP would be willing to spend a lot more to buy the team and pay relocation fees than a Seattle-based group. Then, in a few years, Seattle and Houston will land expansion teams.
NHL will get more on expansion fee alone for QC than what they would get from PKP in sale and relocation of the coyotes.

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01-26-2013, 06:50 PM
  #495
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Phoenix to Seattle makes the most sense with an NBA/NHL team under one owner.
Hansen will not be majority owner the team. Minority owner yes but not majority owner. He clearly said he wants a hockey guy as majority owner of the team.

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01-26-2013, 06:50 PM
  #496
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I have my doubts about Bettman. IF the Coyotes deal falls through AND are relocated anywhere but in QC, there's nothing that will convince me that it isn't Bettman's last FU to Canadian market and QC.
That's because you're letting your emotions run the show instead of being rational about it.


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As far as Seattle goes, it is an unproven market and hockey will be behind the NFL, NBA, MLB and possibly MLS Soccer. If I was the NHL, I would let things go for a while and be careful before putting a new franchise in this already crowded market. The last thing they want is another Arizonian fiasco. I'm not saying it will. Just that it could. Plus they wouldn't have a decent place to play for at least the next two season. Time will tell I guess.
Seattle is a great market with a ton of interest in hockey. MLS isn't really a competitor as it appeals to an entirely different market. As for the "big three", there are plenty of US markets that do just fine with the NHL being behind NFL, MLB, and NBA. While it may rankle certain people, where you rank among the major sports leagues isn't really an issue as long as team is making money and drawing a sufficient number of fans.

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01-26-2013, 06:52 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
NHL will get more on expansion fee alone for QC than what they would get from PKP in sale and relocation of the coyotes.
Problem is that if they expand, they'd almost assuredly expand by two, and no other Canadian markets are really likely to land a team (Hamilton will be opposed enough by Buffalo and Toronto that they sway enough votes in the BoG and there's no sufficient arena elsewhere in the GTA after the Markham deal seemingly fell apart). Doubt that they'd be able to charge massively more for Quebec City then, say.... Houston, if done at the same time.

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01-26-2013, 06:55 PM
  #498
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Problem is that if they expand, they'd almost assuredly expand by two, and no other Canadian markets are really likely to land a team (Hamilton will be opposed enough by Buffalo and Toronto that they sway enough votes in the BoG and there's no sufficient arena elsewhere in the GTA after the Markham deal seemingly fell apart). Doubt that they'd be able to charge massively more for Quebec City then, say.... Houston, if done at the same time.
Then Seattle could be waiting for quite some time cause who knows when the NHL will expand. Problem with expansion to seattle. New franchise thus could be a few loosing seasons before they come up with a very good team compared to the coyotes which is already a play-off team. Quebec city fans will be more patient than Seattle fans.

Both Seattle and QC deserve teams but with 1 team potentially available at the moment its really hard to say who ends up with Coyotes if that plan to keep where they are at fails.


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01-26-2013, 07:19 PM
  #499
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Then Seattle could be waiting for quite some time cause who knows when the NHL will expand. Problem with expansion to seattle. New franchise thus could be a few loosing seasons before they come up with a very good team compared to the coyotes which is already a play-off team. Quebec city fans will be more patient than Seattle fans.

Both Seattle and QC deserve teams but with 1 team potentially available at the moment its really hard to say who ends up with Coyotes if that plan to keep where they are at fails.
Key Arena being able to house only 10000 people, it's doomed to be a financialy losing team until the new arena is built. On the other hand, Winnipeg is proof that Quebec with it's old arena that can get in 15000 will be able to make at least even if not quite a nice profit.

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01-26-2013, 07:32 PM
  #500
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Key Arena being able to house only 10000 people, it's doomed to be a financialy losing team until the new arena is built. On the other hand, Winnipeg is proof that Quebec with it's old arena that can get in 15000 will be able to make at least even if not quite a nice profit.
Actually 15k but with seats that have obstructions. The team "could" do fine at Key depend on how much the hockey team gets in a RSN which covers 5 states. It really depends on the owner of said team. Team immediately (coyotes) or wait who knows how many years till the next team is available or expansion.

We don't even know what Key would look seat wise like post NHL/NBA renovations i mean if it looks the same or not as much seats that have obstructions. If NHL wants team now there immediately, they have no choice but to accept Key arena.


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