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P.K. Subban Thread - MK VIII - 'Week-end of Angst' Edition

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01-26-2013, 06:00 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sure it adds up, if you think PK will only be worth 1M more. But even in your example, you get a higher cap hit of 1M for 4years. If PK feels he's worth 7M, then it doesn't add up at all. 5M difference, and 2.5M difference in cap.
and after 4 years of improvement (assuming all goes well) he will be a safer bet.

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01-26-2013, 06:00 PM
  #902
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wtf you're talking about ?


simple, there will be plenty of cap room in three years (after his bridge contract) with all the guys coming off the books... enough for the Habs to pay their top players at a more than fair price. Assuming Subban remains a very good D, he should worry too much IMO.


Besides, his 2 years bridge contract will actually be a year and a half since there's alreay onlyn 45 games to play this season.
So? We have money now to sign him to a longer deal at a cheaper price than he will be at in 2years.
Why wait if it's only to get him at a higher price? Makes no sense unless you have doubts about the kid.

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01-26-2013, 06:01 PM
  #903
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13 teams this season have 4 or more $5M players. I guess none of them will win the Cup this season.

Nope, none of Vancouver, San Jose, Chicago, New York Rangers, Boston, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Montreal, Buffalo, Minnesota, Washington, Calgary stand a chance.

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01-26-2013, 06:05 PM
  #904
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PK is a big potential player. If we trade him we need to trade him to a Columbus for Ryan Murray and a 1st round pick aka Seth Jones.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:06 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
In another thread, I listed the reasons I think Bergevin is an idiot and was shot down by several people;

However, this 2 years, 5.1 million total offer is confirmation of my view of Bergevin.

Going forward, we can expect 8th place finishes over the next 4 or 5 years at best, during which we won't trade Markov, Plekanec, Cole, Gionta, etc while they'll still have value, and we'll lose a lot of prime years out of Pacioretty, Eller, Gorges, etc.

We are stuck with a bad GM, possibly a worst one than Rejean Houle. It's going to be ugly moving forward.
I say give him some time but there are a few things I don't like about Bergevin thus far. One is the Therrien hire. Although, I can give him a mulligan on that one. But the biggest thing is how he's handled this situation. PK should be playing right now and to hear that it's due to a low ball brdige offer really pisses me off.

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01-26-2013, 06:07 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
the 2% is the difference between 5 Mil on a 56 Mil cap and 5 Mil on a 64 Mil cap... 5/56 vs 5/64.


doesnt change a thing, as long as it's cheap relative to the cap.
lol...

because you're using ONE 5 mil contract. Most teams have several... that's why you have to use the difference itself between the two caps which you avoided doing because it is the ACTUAL difference in % when working with the new cap limit. 8 mil is over a 10% increase in total cap space.

THAT'S the POINT!

Sure if you spread a 40% difference (seen in 7 years of contract over the last full CBA) over the 23 players... for each individual player, it adds up to 2% difference, which makes it seem small, and that's why your way of seeing it is ingenious.

The GM who sees his purse string grow by 8 million will tell you that he sees a much bigger difference than just 2%. He'll tell you that adding up all his biggest salaries together will take a much lesser percentage of his overall cap. Not just ONE 5 mil salary, and then say Oh, it's just a 2% decrease.

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01-26-2013, 06:13 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post
13 teams this season have 4 or more $5M players. I guess none of them will win the Cup this season.

Nope, none of Vancouver, San Jose, Chicago, New York Rangers, Boston, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Montreal, Buffalo, Minnesota, Washington, Calgary stand a chance.
think you can easily scratch those.

Chicago are having a hard time making it past 1st round since their cup.

NYR are a one line team.

Now if you wanna bet on SJ. Go ahead.

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01-26-2013, 06:14 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and after 4 years of improvement (assuming all goes well) he will be a safer bet.
So that's what it is..You have some doubts.

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01-26-2013, 06:16 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
think you can easily scratch those.

Chicago are having a hard time making it past 1st round since their cup.

NYR are a one line team.

Now if you wanna bet on SJ. Go ahead.
I'll take my chances with Vancouver, Boston, Pittsburgh and LA, thank you very much.

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01-26-2013, 06:17 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
lol...

because you're using ONE 5 mil contract. Most teams have several... that's why you have to use the difference itself between the two caps which you avoided doing because it is the ACTUAL difference in % when working with the new cap limit. 8 mil is over a 10% increase in total cap space.

THAT'S the POINT!

Sure if you spread a 40% difference (seen in 7 years of contract over the last full CBA) over the 23 players... for each individual player, it adds up to 2% difference, which makes it seem small, and that's why your way of seeing it is ingenious.

The GM who sees his purse string grow by 8 million will tell you that he sees a much bigger difference than just 2%. He'll tell you that adding up all his biggest salaries together will take a much lesser percentage of his overall cap. Not just ONE 5 mil salary, and then say Oh, it's just a 2% decrease.
doesnt change fact that most teams winning cups nowadays do it cause they have great young players on the rise at a relatively cheap cost... Voynov and Quick in LA, Malkin in Pitts, Kane/Toews in Chicago...

sure, there's Detroit with the best D in the history of the league...


us ? while we havent win anything lately, our young players on the rise will already be making the big money.

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01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
doesnt change fact that most teams winning cups nowadays do it cause they have great young players on the rise at a relatively cheap cost... Voynov and Quick in LA, Malkin in Pitts, Kane/Toews in Chicago...

sure, there's Detroit with the best D in the history of the league...


us ? while we havent win anything lately, our young players on the rise will already be making the big money.
lol, you mention Voynov and Quick in LA, but fail to mention Richards, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter - all making above $5M.

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01-26-2013, 06:20 PM
  #912
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So that's what it is..You have some doubts.
the kid has two seasons under his belt. Think anyone should breathe a little.

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01-26-2013, 06:21 PM
  #913
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lol, you mention Voynov and Quick in LA, but fail to mention Richards, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter - all making above $5M.
reading isnt your thing I guess.

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01-26-2013, 06:23 PM
  #914
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Not sure if anyone linked the Andy Strickland article about the Subban negotiation but here is a rather telling quote.

One NHL Executive recently told me, “You can’t pay Subban more because Markov got hurt.”

Full article here http://t.co/41MSKkNq

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01-26-2013, 06:24 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
doesnt change fact that most teams winning cups nowadays do it cause they have great young players on the rise at a relatively cheap cost... Voynov and Quick in LA, Malkin in Pitts, Kane/Toews in Chicago...

sure, there's Detroit with the best D in the history of the league...


us ? while we havent win anything lately, our young players on the rise will already be making the big money.
Malkin, Toews, Kane and Voynov were all on their ELC. No bridge deals.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:25 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Malkin, Toews, Kane and Voynov were all on their ELC. No bridge deals.
I know.

great performances, cheap contract.

Thanks for gettig it finally.

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01-26-2013, 06:28 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
the kid has two seasons under his belt. Think anyone should breathe a little.
Sure, give him a bridge deal. No issues there. Actually, even PK said there would be no issue. But at 2.2M? Really? 200K more than Emelin?? 700K more than Bouillon?

I mean, offer him 3-3.5M at least. Even Price got 2.5M and 3M for his bridge deal, and he had a losing career record at this point, coming off his worst year..
So, let's not exaggerate here.

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01-26-2013, 06:29 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
reading isnt your thing I guess.
I'm sorry, are you saying that Carter was making under $5M?

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01-26-2013, 06:29 PM
  #919
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Really ? Did i miss something ?
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
well he said that he is gone

that should be quite enough
You think this story has a happy ending?

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:30 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sure, give him a bridge deal. No issues there. Actually, even PK said there would be no issue. But at 2.2M? Really? 200K more than Emelin?? 700K more than Bouillon?

I mean, offer him 3-3.5M at least. Even Price got 2.5M and 3M for his bridge deal, and he had a losing career record at this point, coming off his worst year..
So, let's not exaggerate here.
meh, it's for a year and a half, dont think signing for below what he think he's worth is such a big deal.

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01-26-2013, 06:30 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
doesnt change fact that most teams winning cups nowadays do it cause they have great young players on the rise at a relatively cheap cost... Voynov and Quick in LA, Malkin in Pitts, Kane/Toews in Chicago...

sure, there's Detroit with the best D in the history of the league...


us ? while we havent win anything lately, our young players on the rise will already be making the big money.
uhn? I'm scratching my head at that one.

You're using 2-3 examples on a very small sample of years as the cap structure is relatively new (7 cup winners). But now that Toews, Kane, Quick and all of them will have signed those big contracts, suddenly they won't win cups?

You're also using examples that are at the bottom slope of an upward curve of cap inflation. These occurrences you see are small gaps in the long run and that logic won't fit in 4-5 years when the cap will be close to 75 mil and all the existing contracts that extend further than that point in time will take a much lesser part of the overall cap, leaving enough space for a much more dynamic turn around of veterans vs young players, all making a lot of money.

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01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I know.

great performances, cheap contract.

Thanks for gettig it finally.
And they all got huge raises after their ELC. PK is coming off his ELC. What's your point?
He should agree to a cheap deal because we made the mistake of giving over the hill vets cash they didn't deserve?? Instead of investing in the kids that actually deserve it?

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01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
  #923
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I think 3 for the 1st year and 3.5 for the 2nd would be a good deal for both sides.

2.2 and 2.9 though? Is Bergevin serious?

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01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
  #924
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I'm sorry, are you saying that Carter was making under $5M?
Carter cost the Kings 1.2 Mil last season.

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01-26-2013, 06:32 PM
  #925
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And they all got huge raises after their ELC. PK is coming off his ELC. What's your point?
He should agree to a cheap deal because we made the mistake of giving over the hill vets cash they didn't deserve?? Instead of investing in the kids that actually deserve it?
none of these teams repeated.

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