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*ALL* PK Subban talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) III
Couturier has just started centering the 2nd line.
Last year he was on the 4th line while playing with players like Shelley, Wellwood, and Sestito.
He's a fine player with great upside. Absolutely true. But what is that upside? Pavelski type? That'd be great. Pavelski wouldnt land Duncan Keith either though. If you take both players upside, Subban is just worth more. It's that simple.
Chelios traded for one of the top players in the league
Pronger traded for one of the best players in the league
Brewer traded for Hamrlik
Brewer traded for Pronger...
Young defenseman who either are or have a chance to be elite, are worth a ton. Always have been. Subban needs to mature a lot like Pronger did. If he does, he can be a special player. Centers just dont hold that same value unless they're premier scorers. Couturier is not that guy.
Chelios was traded for a washed up Denis Savard in what is still considered among the worst trades Montreal has ever made. In addition, you are comparing Pronger in his prime to Subban? Good lord.
He's a fine player with great upside. Absolutely true. But what is that upside? Pavelski type? That'd be great. Pavelski wouldnt land Duncan Keith either though. If you take both players upside, Subban is just worth more. It's that simple.
Chelios was traded for a washed up Denis Savard in what is still considered among the worst trades Montreal has ever made. In addition, you are comparing Pronger in his prime to Subban? Good lord.
Pronger was a young defenseman who had major growing up to do when he was traded for Shanahan. Very similar to Subban in that regard.
Denis Savard at the time of the trade for Chelios was not thought of at all as over the hill. He was still well over a point a game player.
Obviously the trade turned out great for Chicago but at the time, Savard was still considered a top player in the NHL.
Toews was the captain of his team at 20 years old. He was a first line player on a Stanley Cup team at 22. Toews scored almost double the points at the same age. At 21 Toews became almost a point a game player and has never looked back.
Despres + Tangradi + 1st round pick is about what I'd be willing to offer if they could lock him up long term (4-5) years at around 3.5 / 4 million dollar cap hit.
But yeah, saying he's not a premier scorer at all is pretty ridiculous at this point
Until he proves otherwise, he is NOT a premier scorer. Am I misunderstanding something or are you actually saying that Sean Couturier is a premier scorer in the NHL?
Like that B Schenn is an offensive winger/C and brother Luke is a stalwart-type ...... fills PK's hole responsibly (but does put extreme pressure on Beaulieu to fill PK's offensive role, WHEN he's ready) ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginovegas
schenn schen and a second
for
Subban, Kaberle and Moen
Until he proves otherwise, he is NOT a premier scorer. Am I misunderstanding something or are you actually saying that Sean Couturier is a premier scorer in the NHL?
He wasnt even a point a game player in the AHL this season.
People get so enamored with prospects they put the heaviest of expectations on them.
He wasnt even a point a game player in the AHL this season.
People get so enamored with prospects they put the heaviest of expectations on them.
Yes, 28 points in 31 games. Only about 70-75 points over an 82 game season....very, very far off from PPG on the best AHL team in the league. Flyers ought to just waive Couturier.
Pronger was a young defenseman who had major growing up to do when he was traded for Shanahan. Very similar to Subban in that regard.
Denis Savard at the time of the trade for Chelios was not thought of at all as over the hill. He was still well over a point a game player.
Obviously the trade turned out great for Chicago but at the time, Savard was still considered a top player in the NHL.
Similar in maturity perhaps, but Pronger was infinitely superior at the same age Subban is now. In terms of value, they are not even kind of close.
Savard did not have single PPG season with the Habs. In his final three years in Chicago, he netted 131p/80, 82p/58 and 80p/60 points respective, whereas in Montreal he had 59p/70, 70p/77 and 50p/63.
That is a sharp decline. Respectable player or not, most analyst consider Chelios to Chicago was one of Montreal's worst trades. Therefore, your comparison is lacking.
Toews was the captain of his team at 20 years old. He was a first line player on a Stanley Cup team at 22. Toews scored almost double the points at the same age. At 21 Toews became almost a point a game player and has never looked back.
That's some really heavy expectation.
They were used in totally different roles.
Toews had 18:40 of TOI with almost 3 mins a game of PP time a game. Toews was on a bad team and was playing with a lot better players.
Couturier had 14:08 of TOI with less than 30 seconds of PP time a game and had to work his way up while playing almost 3 mins of PK time a game.
Despres + Tangradi + 1st round pick is about what I'd be willing to offer if they could lock him up long term (4-5) years at around 3.5 / 4 million dollar cap hit.
over-rated city
