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Gulutzan/Jerrad Fired + New Coaching Search Discussion

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01-26-2013, 06:05 PM
  #51
Troy McClure
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
It is really worrying considering how guys like grossman, niskanen and fistrics never took the next step needed. Hell Goligoski has regressed. There may be something wrong with the way the organization coaches Dmen.
Maybe. It could be player development or coaching. Who knows. It could also be these guys aren't that good. It's not like any of them have gone elsewhere to be anything but bit players. Even Goligoski was a 5 or 6 for the Pens.

I want Larsen to get PP time like everyone else, but that desire is probably due to my wishful thinking of what I want him to become. It's not like he's shown flashes of being anything special.

I hate the way Gully overuses Morrow and Robidas, but I don't think I'd fire him for failing to play Larsen when Larsen hasn't exactly looked good.

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01-26-2013, 06:09 PM
  #52
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Then, wouldn't it be better Willie's in-charge of honing the prospects' skills and we seek elsewhere for a coaching change?
That's 1 choice, but it's temporary. Good AHL coaches typically become NHL coaches. If DAL doesn't give him the chance, someone in the next 2 or so years will.

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01-26-2013, 06:12 PM
  #53
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Willie seems like the perfect prospect coach. Keep him there as long as we can.

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01-26-2013, 06:13 PM
  #54
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Maybe. It could be player development or coaching. Who knows. It could also be these guys aren't that good. It's not like any of them have gone elsewhere to be anything but bit players. Even Goligoski was a 5 or 6 for the Pens.

I want Larsen to get PP time like everyone else, but that desire is probably due to my wishful thinking of what I want him to become. It's not like he's shown flashes of being anything special.

I hate the way Gully overuses Morrow and Robidas, but I don't think I'd fire him for failing to play Larsen when Larsen hasn't exactly looked good.
Niskanen and Grosmann are both in the top 4 on their respective teams, and Goose was putting up 40 points (pace) consistently in Pittsburgh.

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01-26-2013, 06:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Maybe. It could be player development or coaching. Who knows. It could also be these guys aren't that good. It's not like any of them have gone elsewhere to be anything but bit players. Even Goligoski was a 5 or 6 for the Pens.

I want Larsen to get PP time like everyone else, but that desire is probably due to my wishful thinking of what I want him to become. It's not like he's shown flashes of being anything special.

I hate the way Gully overuses Morrow and Robidas, but I don't think I'd fire him for failing to play Larsen when Larsen hasn't exactly looked good.
What? Larsen has a fantastic shot, crisp passes, and can get into the slot and create chaos when given the chance.

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01-26-2013, 06:15 PM
  #56
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What? Larsen has a fantastic shot, crisp passes, and can get into the slot and create chaos when given the chance.
At the NHL level?

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01-26-2013, 06:17 PM
  #57
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At the NHL level?
Everything but the slot presence, yes!

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01-26-2013, 06:18 PM
  #58
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That's 1 choice, but it's temporary. Good AHL coaches typically become NHL coaches. If DAL doesn't give him the chance, someone in the next 2 or so years will.
Valid point.

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01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
  #59
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He also has players who are geared towards the roles they're playing. So basically he's selecting lines correctly, and putting players in positions where they will succeed. Not just going off of whoever has tenure.

I personally would rather see him stay here in Austin because his track record with young players is outstanding. Could it transfer to the NHL? Who knows after Gully.
I love watching the baby Stars now. Hadn't seen them until I moved down here but I try to go to games as often as I can. That's the only reason I'd want to keep Willie down here, so the games keep being good

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01-26-2013, 06:25 PM
  #60
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Everything but the slot presence, yes!
I wish you were correct. It would be awesome to have a young d-man on the roster who did all of those things.

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01-26-2013, 06:27 PM
  #61
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I wish you were correct. It would be awesome to have a young d-man on the roster who did all of those things.
Man I was doing so good today.

Your talent evaluations suck. Sorry.

edit-

Tell you what. How about you tell me what you see in Larsen and we can compare notes. Sound good?


Last edited by Cin: 01-26-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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01-26-2013, 06:36 PM
  #62
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Man I was doing so good today.

Your talent evaluations suck. Sorry.
Come on, if Larsen was as awesome as you want him to be, he wouldn't be getting scratched.

Quote:
Tell you what. How about you tell me what you see in Larsen and we can compare notes. Sound good?
At this point, I have no idea. He gets pushed around easily, loses more puck battles than he wins, skates well enough, has a decent shot that he seldom seems to use, can pass okay but doesn't show much offensive creativity, etc.

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01-26-2013, 06:38 PM
  #63
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Him being scratched is more about penalties than talent. He also hasn't looked as good as normal to start the season.

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01-26-2013, 06:38 PM
  #64
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Come on, if Larsen was as awesome as you want him to be, he wouldn't be getting scratched.
Are you Brandon Worley?

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:40 PM
  #65
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Come on, if Larsen was as awesome as you want him to be, he wouldn't be getting scratched.
That's terrible logic and you know it.

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01-26-2013, 06:42 PM
  #66
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Are you Brandon Worley?
No. I just don't agree with your sureness about Larsen.

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01-26-2013, 06:45 PM
  #67
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Come on, if Larsen was as awesome as you want him to be, he wouldn't be getting scratched.


At this point, I have no idea. He gets pushed around easily, loses more puck battles than he wins, skates well enough, has a decent shot that he seldom seems to use, can pass okay but doesn't show much offensive creativity, etc.
Is he worse than Robidas? Especially enough so to be scratched? If anyone on D should be scratched consistently it should be Robidope.

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01-26-2013, 06:50 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Him being scratched is more about penalties than talent. He also hasn't looked as good as normal to start the season.
I agree. He's taking dumb penalties and playing below his capability, so why jump down Gully's throat (and mine) for agreeing with you?

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01-26-2013, 06:52 PM
  #69
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Come on guys. Pack it in. We started this too soon.

Brenden Morrow has been demoted to the 4th line.

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01-26-2013, 06:52 PM
  #70
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Because Larsen has demonstrated an exceptional capability to learn from his mistakes so there's no need to take him off the ice. If you seriously believe Larsen is worse than the other 6 defensemen in the lineup tonight, even on his worst night, then well.. I don't use the word retarded often, but I might have dust that one off.

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01-26-2013, 06:55 PM
  #71
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Come on guys. Pack it in. We started this too soon.

Brenden Morrow has been demoted to the 4th line.
It'll last two shifts.

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01-26-2013, 06:55 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by hairylikebear View Post
Because Larsen has demonstrated an exceptional capability to learn from his mistakes so there's no need to take him off the ice. If you seriously believe Larsen is worse than the other 6 defensemen in the lineup tonight, even on his worst night, then well.. I don't use the word retarded often, but I might have dust that one off.
Seriously. I'd put him above Goligoski and Robidas.

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01-26-2013, 10:14 PM
  #73
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Larsen's development is being ruined by the organization. He is a smart player that is more than willing to be physical with players despite his size. He gets the least amount of TOI and virtually zero PP itme. It is a joke.
Couldn't agree more.

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As per Brandon Worley on DBD:

Larsen has not been good this season.

Hes getting the scratch not because of the penalties, but because hes struggled with getting pushed off the puck and hes not moving it well right now. Rome goes with Daley, he can provide more physical presence on 2nd pair and give Dillon and Benn a game to work together again who may be a better pairing anyway.
DBD has been losing credibility on their player evals for a while. Larsen hasn't been getting pushed off the puck; that's just not true.

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01-26-2013, 10:19 PM
  #74
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DBD has been losing credibility on their player evals for a while. Larsen hasn't been getting pushed off the puck; that's just not true.
I don't know of any other place for information on player/prospect evaluation. If you'd point me to a source, I'd appreciate it.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:28 PM
  #75
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I'd say Larsen has been the Stars 2nd best dman this year behind Daley.
Agreed.

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Regarding a potential new coach, I think they'd go outside of the organization.

IDK how many people agree about this, but I think Willie is making a damn good case for himself if they hired from within. I know most people don't agree with how Austin Smith was handled, but Willie, while not entirely his own doing, has one of the Top PP's in the AHL, the best team in the AHL, and several players making huge strides (Eakin, R. Smith, Chiasson, Oleksiak, etc). Those players deserve most of the credit though for their progress, but after last season you can see how a coach can have negative impact on development. Last year was essentially a lost season with the exception of Fraser and Dillon.
There's a big point to be made here. A lot of times, players already have what it takes to succeed within them, they simply need the proper care. An organization's job is to spot talent that they can draft or sign as undrafted players later, then give those players the best environment to continue to progress. They shouldn't be trying to make a good player, they should have identified a good player who needs time, experience, and a pointer here or there.

This also goes for the NHL level, where young players must be given opportunities to fail, so long as you really believe in their longterm potential. If it weren't for the change of GM's from Armstrong to Jackson years ago we very well may never have seen the Loui Eriksson we currently do. Until Jackson gave Tippett the directive to play Eriksson and Grossman even though they will definitely make mistakes, Eriksson was being treated like Larsen has been through his entire time in the NHL.

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