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Old
01-26-2013, 04:19 AM
  #376
CBJWennberg41
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Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on Murray being a 'franchise defenseman.'

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01-26-2013, 04:27 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on Murray being a 'franchise defenseman.'
His upside has been said to be that of a lidstrom with a downside of neidermeyer. I'd say that's a franchise potential.

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01-26-2013, 04:32 AM
  #378
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His upside has been said to be that of a lidstrom with a downside of neidermeyer. I'd say that's a franchise potential.
Uh, no. That's preposterous. Talk about Dan Hamhuis or Ryan Suter... maybe. First pairing defenseman, but not franchise. And that's if he develops perfectly.

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01-26-2013, 04:37 AM
  #379
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Uh, no. That's preposterous. Talk about Dan Hamhuis or Ryan Suter... maybe. First pairing defenseman, but not franchise. And that's if he develops perfectly.
His offensive upside is way underrated, and his intangibles will only get better every year. You don't just make Team Canada during your draft year by being just another 1st D pairing defensemen.

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01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
  #380
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Barkov wouldnt make a run?
Not for me, no. Top-4 or 5, but not #1.

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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Uh, no. That's preposterous. Talk about Dan Hamhuis or Ryan Suter... maybe. First pairing defenseman, but not franchise. And that's if he develops perfectly.
He'll be a top-4 defenseman in the NHL next year. He won't need to develop much more, as he would have been ready to step in this year if not for the lockout and his injury. He's already on par with a guy like Dan Hamhuis, and anyone who has actually watched him play would know that. And I'm not talking about just highlights or clips.

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His offensive upside is way underrated, and his intangibles will only get better every year. You don't just make Team Canada during your draft year by being just another 1st D pairing defensemen.
This is how I feel. Ryan Murray is an excellent player, and the fact that a "fan" of the team that drafted him puts him down so often really makes me question whether or not that person is actually a fan. We didn't draft Nail Yakupov, get over it.

Murray has every bit of a chance to be a Duncan Keith type player, or better, in this league.

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01-26-2013, 04:29 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
His offensive upside is way underrated, and his intangibles will only get better every year. You don't just make Team Canada during your draft year by being just another 1st D pairing defensemen.
He only made that team because the Oilers wanted to see how he would look against the men (Lowe was GM). I do agree his offense is underrated, but it's still not elite or close to it. I see Murray as a guy you place on your first pairing and he sticks there for a while. Very valuable, but not franchise. Ryan Suter type.

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Not for me, no. Top-4 or 5, but not #1.



He'll be a top-4 defenseman in the NHL next year. He won't need to develop much more, as he would have been ready to step in this year if not for the lockout and his injury. He's already on par with a guy like Dan Hamhuis, and anyone who has actually watched him play would know that. And I'm not talking about just highlights or clips.



This is how I feel. Ryan Murray is an excellent player, and the fact that a "fan" of the team that drafted him puts him down so often really makes me question whether or not that person is actually a fan. We didn't draft Nail Yakupov, get over it.

Murray has every bit of a chance to be a Duncan Keith type player, or better, in this league.
Putting Murray down? I have called him a first pairing defenseman, how is that an insult? Just because I didn't call him the next Lidstrom or next best defenseman to ever play in the NHL doesn't mean im bashing him. Some people have different opinions on him, just because it isn't yours doesn't mean you can question my fanship.

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01-26-2013, 05:48 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Putting Murray down? I have called him a first pairing defenseman, how is that an insult? Just because I didn't call him the next Lidstrom or next best defenseman to ever play in the NHL doesn't mean im bashing him. Some people have different opinions on him, just because it isn't yours doesn't mean you can question my fanship.
While you may not have mentioned it in those words, from the moment Ryan Murray's name was called at the podium, you've done nothing but beat down anyone who has anything positive to say about him. Please, give the kid a chance - I know he's no Derick Brassard, but he's still a very good player.

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01-26-2013, 06:08 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
While you may not have mentioned it in those words, from the moment Ryan Murray's name was called at the podium, you've done nothing but beat down anyone who has anything positive to say about him. Please, give the kid a chance - I know he's no Derick Brassard, but he's still a very good player.
Yep. Im really beating him down by calling him a first pairing defender. My bad.

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01-26-2013, 07:05 PM
  #384
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Murray isn't like Hamhuis because Hamhuis's game is much more physical. Murray uses his stick and positioning much more.

I have heard his upside is Niedermeyer-esque. 50 points and big minutes every night. Morelikely he seems like Bouwmeester without the character concerns.

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01-26-2013, 09:53 PM
  #385
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Murray isn't like Hamhuis because Hamhuis's game is much more physical. Murray uses his stick and positioning much more.

I have heard his upside is Niedermeyer-esque. 50 points and big minutes every night. Morelikely he seems like Bouwmeester without the character concerns.
I'd say his play style is Niedermayer-like ... current Jackets coach Craig Hartsburg was his coach in Everett before, and this is who he compared him to. While I don't know that he'll be that level of dominant, his skating is up around that level, and his vision is excellent. You're right, he's not a real physical guy, but he is solid at separating player from puck.

Hunter Shinkaruk and the Medicine Hat Tigers visit the Spokane Arena tonight. I don't dare visit that place on a Saturday night with my two little girls, but I will be keeping a close watch on the game from the comfort of my home. Shinkaruk is a guy we should be really watching also; if we don't land one of the big 4, he's a guy that's right on that next level. Coming into the season, I thought he would be a real contender for a top-3 pick, but with a slow start and some inconsistencies (not to mention being beaten out by Jonathan Drouin for a spot on Team Canada at the WJCs), he has fallen a bit. Still, he's a dynamic forward that has top line potential (if not size).

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01-26-2013, 10:08 PM
  #386
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I'd say his play style is Niedermayer-like ... current Jackets coach Craig Hartsburg was his coach in Everett before, and this is who he compared him to. While I don't know that he'll be that level of dominant, his skating is up around that level, and his vision is excellent. You're right, he's not a real physical guy, but he is solid at separating player from puck.

Hunter Shinkaruk and the Medicine Hat Tigers visit the Spokane Arena tonight. I don't dare visit that place on a Saturday night with my two little girls, but I will be keeping a close watch on the game from the comfort of my home. Shinkaruk is a guy we should be really watching also; if we don't land one of the big 4, he's a guy that's right on that next level. Coming into the season, I thought he would be a real contender for a top-3 pick, but with a slow start and some inconsistencies (not to mention being beaten out by Jonathan Drouin for a spot on Team Canada at the WJCs), he has fallen a bit. Still, he's a dynamic forward that has top line potential (if not size).
Hey the way it's looking we could get jones/Mackinnon Barkov and Shinkaruk!

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01-27-2013, 11:19 AM
  #387
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Even though a part of me is beginning to say "hey, if Jones is a franchise D-man go for him if given a chance", after watching Kane and Toews last night the need for first line offensive talent equal to their's is so critical that unless we pick 7th and all the top O's are gone, I think it has to be the BOPA.

You can make an argument that Joey and CAM are 1st line guys but I don't see them in the class of Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. Think how good this team could be if Joey and CAM anchored the 2nd line? That is probably a pipe dream but it is a pleasant dream.

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01-27-2013, 12:05 PM
  #388
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Even though a part of me is beginning to say "hey, if Jones is a franchise D-man go for him if given a chance", after watching Kane and Toews last night the need for first line offensive talent equal to their's is so critical that unless we pick 7th and all the top O's are gone, I think it has to be the BOPA.

You can make an argument that Joey and CAM are 1st line guys but I don't see them in the class of Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. Think how good this team could be if Joey and CAM anchored the 2nd line? That is probably a pipe dream but it is a pleasant dream.
Exactly. Also its not a pipe dream it is how good teams are built. look at the best teams across the league:

Penguins: Malkin/Crosby/Neal
Chicago: Toews/Kane/Sharp/Hossa
San Jose: Thorton/Marleau/Couture/Pavelski

Teams are built on being good in all phases. The "defense wins championships" maxim is all well and good, but first you need to score. Besides I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who wouldn't mind a bit of fire wagon hockey.

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01-27-2013, 01:58 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Even though a part of me is beginning to say "hey, if Jones is a franchise D-man go for him if given a chance", after watching Kane and Toews last night the need for first line offensive talent equal to their's is so critical that unless we pick 7th and all the top O's are gone, I think it has to be the BOPA.

You can make an argument that Joey and CAM are 1st line guys but I don't see them in the class of Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. Think how good this team could be if Joey and CAM anchored the 2nd line? That is probably a pipe dream but it is a pleasant dream.
Thing is, Seth Jones is such a great player, he will provide offense as well. He won't be an Erik Karlsson type player, but Shea Weber comes to mind when I watch him play. And I think he's a better skater.

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Exactly. Also its not a pipe dream it is how good teams are built. look at the best teams across the league:

Penguins: Malkin/Crosby/Neal
Chicago: Toews/Kane/Sharp/Hossa
San Jose: Thorton/Marleau/Couture/Pavelski

Teams are built on being good in all phases. The "defense wins championships" maxim is all well and good, but first you need to score. Besides I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who wouldn't mind a bit of fire wagon hockey.
Those teams aren't exactly bums on defense either though

Penguins: Letang, Martin, Orpik
Chicago: Keith, Seabrook
San Jose: Boyle, Burns, Stuart, Vlasic

It isn't just about defense anymore, but it also cannot be overlooked.

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01-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #390
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Ik everyone is screaming offense right now, but we have a opportunity to lock down our D this draft of we have a chance at Jones. Our D obviously isn't as good as we think it is. Jones + Murray would seal up any doubts about having a solid D. Than we still have 2 picks to get offense. It really is going to depend on where the Kings and Rangers are picking.

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01-27-2013, 02:41 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
Ik everyone is screaming offense right now, but we have a opportunity to lock down our D this draft of we have a chance at Jones. Our D obviously isn't as good as we think it is. Jones + Murray would seal up any doubts about having a solid D. Than we still have 2 picks to get offense. It really is going to depend on where the Kings and Rangers are picking.
I still think Mackinnon is the way to go. But if we are at #2 and aren't sold on Barkov or Drouin, take Jones.

If they think Barkov is a sure thing 80 point beast, sure take him whatever. But we are no worse off taking Jones IMO even if we are deep at D and really lacking forwards.

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01-27-2013, 02:49 PM
  #392
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would obviously be awesome to get MacKinnon AND Jones...

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01-27-2013, 02:53 PM
  #393
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would obviously be awesome to get MacKinnon AND Jones...

if the we're high enough i would go for Jones+Barkov

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01-27-2013, 03:31 PM
  #394
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I know that it is early but LA and NYR are both in the bottom 10, I know it won't stay like that but if it did that sure would help your team's rebuild. Thre top 10 picks would be fantastic.

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01-27-2013, 03:50 PM
  #395
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Thing is, Seth Jones is such a great player, he will provide offense as well. He won't be an Erik Karlsson type player, but Shea Weber comes to mind when I watch him play. And I think he's a better skater.



Those teams aren't exactly bums on defense either though

Penguins: Letang, Martin, Orpik
Chicago: Keith, Seabrook
San Jose: Boyle, Burns, Stuart, Vlasic

It isn't just about defense anymore, but it also cannot be overlooked.
Very true, and I did mention that it is about being good in all phases of the game. Right now our best area in the organization is Defense (Murray, Erixon, etc), Goaltending (Dansk, Korpisalo, Forsberg), and Offense (crickets). I would not at all mind adding a D prospect that projects as a all around or shutdown guy with a 2nd or later pick, but I feel with elite offensive talent on the board there isn't another way to go. (However, if Mackinnon is not on the Board I would support Jones as the pick because I feel those two are level above the others)

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Ik everyone is screaming offense right now, but we have a opportunity to lock down our D this draft of we have a chance at Jones. Our D obviously isn't as good as we think it is. Jones + Murray would seal up any doubts about having a solid D. Than we still have 2 picks to get offense. It really is going to depend on where the Kings and Rangers are picking.
I agree, so long as Mackinnon is off the Board. I think Mack and Jones are neck and neck for BPA, but with the organizational depth being so bare on the forward side I think Mack is an equal talent that fills a greater need.

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01-27-2013, 04:01 PM
  #396
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5 Games into the season, Draft picks if they were today

4th
6th
8th

at best, according to ISS December Board our draft would look like
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spect-rankings

Jonathon Drouin LW
Elias Lindholm C
Hunter Shinkaruk LW

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01-27-2013, 04:02 PM
  #397
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Ik everyone is screaming offense right now, but we have a opportunity to lock down our D this draft of we have a chance at Jones. Our D obviously isn't as good as we think it is. Jones + Murray would seal up any doubts about having a solid D. Than we still have 2 picks to get offense. It really is going to depend on where the Kings and Rangers are picking.

why isn't our D as good as we think it is? we havent seen Savard, Murray, or Erixon or Reilly yet and Moore is only 22, dont you think you're about 2-3 years off from making that assumption?

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01-27-2013, 04:29 PM
  #398
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5 Games into the season, Draft picks if they were today

4th
6th
8th

at best, according to ISS December Board our draft would look like
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spect-rankings

Jonathon Drouin LW
Elias Lindholm C
Hunter Shinkaruk LW
That would be amazing

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01-27-2013, 07:25 PM
  #399
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I'd say his play style is Niedermayer-like ... current Jackets coach Craig Hartsburg was his coach in Everett before, and this is who he compared him to. While I don't know that he'll be that level of dominant, his skating is up around that level, and his vision is excellent. You're right, he's not a real physical guy, but he is solid at separating player from puck.

Hunter Shinkaruk and the Medicine Hat Tigers visit the Spokane Arena tonight. I don't dare visit that place on a Saturday night with my two little girls, but I will be keeping a close watch on the game from the comfort of my home. Shinkaruk is a guy we should be really watching also; if we don't land one of the big 4, he's a guy that's right on that next level. Coming into the season, I thought he would be a real contender for a top-3 pick, but with a slow start and some inconsistencies (not to mention being beaten out by Jonathan Drouin for a spot on Team Canada at the WJCs), he has fallen a bit. Still, he's a dynamic forward that has top line potential (if not size).
What would you say about a comparison to Chris Chelios as he matured?

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01-27-2013, 08:36 PM
  #400
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why isn't our D as good as we think it is? we havent seen Savard, Murray, or Erixon or Reilly yet and Moore is only 22, dont you think you're about 2-3 years off from making that assumption?
Well at least this year, Aucoin is just a stopgap and a leaky one at that. There's just something about wiz, I think he'll be traded sometime next season. And I honestly don't know how Erixon and Reilly will turn on. Now you take Murray and pair him with JJ. (if) we draft Jones pair him with Moore on the 2nd and tyuts and nik on the 3rd and still have Erixon as a 7th and Reilly still a few years away. Plus we try to get offense back for wiz, and the other 2 picks in the first. Like I said though who we take (if we pick 1st) is all gonna depend on where LA & NYR end up at. If we end up (somehow) with two top 5 or 8 picks... I could see us taking Jones. Jones is a play making TWD that will play a huge role in both zones. With Jenner making the team next year that takes up another roster spot. Hopefully Johansen moves up the chart. And we still have an opportunity to pick up some serious playmakers like shinkaruk, Monahan, lindholm, etc etc. Who will push out players like Boll Dorsett and Mackenzie, keeping them firmly placed on the 4th line or scratched where they should be.
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That would be amazing
My thoughts as well...

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