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Old
06-26-2006, 07:28 PM
  #26
Marchy79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loadie
No love for Locke I see. This year will be the telling tale I guess, but having him completley out of most lists is an injustice IMO. He's still top 10 for now, I'll wait till the training camp to see how he's progressing.
I agree I cant believe how many are willing to throw him to the wolves already lol...

Locke may take a bit of time, but I do believe he's progressing. It's a question as to how much he's progressing this summer... IMO he can surprise all next year, like he did in Ottawa, and elsewhere's in the past. Corey Locke has always had preserverence. Lets not sell him short, because he is short... He was our top scorer last year, boosted his point totals up nearly 20 points, and played a more responsible game by the end of the year, working on his +/- ratios...

Timmins had a lot of good things to say about him, still... all that is needed is more effort. He's long term, so expecting him in montreal 2 years out of Hamilton is still a bit of a long shot... But I think after a solid year this upcoming season, he can be a nice surprise in camp... Esp. considering he's hitting that 24 yr old mark (shortly) has a tonne of awards to verify his skill level (that is pretty much hard to match in his grouping)... Yes he's a project, but he's got intangibles that make it hard to give up on him IMO.

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Old
06-26-2006, 07:49 PM
  #27
Russeltown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierredagenais
Expect him to be as good as Igor Ulanov
Ulanov was good?

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Old
06-26-2006, 09:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by sYn
Ulanov was good?
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. He brought something to the table, but was too error prone.

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Old
06-26-2006, 10:14 PM
  #29
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loadie
No love for Locke I see. This year will be the telling tale I guess, but having him completley out of most lists is an injustice IMO. He's still top 10 for now, I'll wait till the training camp to see how he's progressing.

I think some people are really hard on Locke. I myself like his skill set but personally I don't have him in the top 10. Imo the Habs are in the upper level of the NHL's farm systems, so this puts a player like Locke much further down. If he was on a team that was lacking skilled centers on a below average farm system then he would be much more talked about. I know he was a great success in juniors, but while it's hard I try to overlook what players do in the CHL. Ribeiro racked up the points, M-A Thinel had some big seasons, Milroy had a jaw dropping 92 pt season as a 17 year old. But it's hard to overlook the success Locke had in the OHL.

For me I had him higher going into his pro career despite the lack of size, strength, skating and speed. Over his 2 years in Hamilton I have come away more disappointed then excited. Yes he's shown he has great skills. He does remind me a good of Ribeiro in that both can slow down the play to their speed. Locke also sees the ice well and makes good passes but I don't think he can dangle like Mike, the lack of a long reach hurts him. His skating and foot speed have improved but the strength in both upper and lower body imo hasn't. I was concerned when he got called out by his coach for his work ethic, and while it imo wasn't the thing to do for a coach to do this on the radio, lack of respect for the player imo. It's the coaches job to get Locke to work harder, not put him down in the media. But that's just my opinion and off topic.

I do think people tend to overlook Locke due to guys like Kostitsyn, Perezhogin, Lats, Price getting so much attention. He did lead the Dogs in scoring and EVERY player that has led the Dogs in scoring has played at least a couple games with the Habs. Plekanec, Ward, Ryder, Gratton, Darby, Landry, Ribeiro, Sevigny, etc.. One problem for Locke is Ribeiro. I can't see the team going with 2 of the 4 centers as Ribs and Locke since they play a similar game imo. I don't think either would be as effective on the wing but I can't say for sure.

It will be interesting to see what happens with him. If he had Grabovsky's speed, I would say he would be in the NHL for sure at some point. But if your not strong, you have to be fast and while he's improved his foot speed, it's hard to say if it's improved enough to compensate for the lack of strength.

This year will be a big one for him since it's his final year of his contract. Same goes for Urquhart, Lambert and Kostitsyn. I could see Locke having a big year, I also think Lambert will step it up, hopefully 20+ goals depending on who's his center. He needs someone to feed him the puck imo but with that shot of his, he might be able to have a big year. Hopefully these guys realize that this summer is their last hope to come to camp ready to make things happen and show what they can do.

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Old
06-26-2006, 11:21 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
I do think people tend to overlook Locke due to guys like Kostitsyn, Perezhogin, Lats, Price getting so much attention. :
There is a world of difference between the top prospects you named and Corey Locke do we agree here? Locke is overlooked cause he has some major weakness that hurt his game at the Pro level...

About every AHL top pts performers playing some games with the Habs in the past... You have to considere the Habs had one of the worst bunch of top 6 fowards if not the worst one in the entire NHL at some point.. They were desesperately lacking skills up front.. When Savage is your best winger there is major a problem, when Perreault is centering your second line you are in big trouble ect ect... Same could be said about our prospects depth chart.. there is a world of difference between the quality of the kids we drafted since 2001 and the ones drafted before... In fact the best guy we drafted before 2001 is Markov and has been a late round pick... Beauchemin is the second best kid drafted, Gainey thought he would clear the waiver...Ribeiro still isnt established in the NHL (26 years old), same could be said about Ryder, Hainsey is now playing with the worst NHL team, Hossa never blossomed, Balej slowed down by injuries...

From the 2001 draft, 3 are already playing with the Habs and are just about to blossom, 1 from the 2002 in Higgins, look for Kostitsyn to make the jump next year, Lapierre, Ferland close to be NHL ready, Grabovski coming overseas, Latendresse.. Remember a kid that had close the impact he had at the main camp as a 18 years old?

Plekanec wasnt only Bulldogs best pts producer, he was with Higgins the best player in every areas of the game doing everything great... Locke has been able to put some decent numbers but so far to be close effective Plekanec used to be... There are areas of the game Locke has to improve a big deal in goal to become a serious prospect and Im not sold on his weakness... A serious lack of strength\speed\grit is usualy unfortunately fatal.


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Old
06-27-2006, 12:17 AM
  #31
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Here is a video of Locke. (51)

He does a nice complimentary play that give Ferland the opportunity to finish off his play. The play is more about Ferland tho , i think he will play a decent share of game with Montreal this year

http://www.moosehockey.com/2004-05/050409/recap.php

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Old
06-27-2006, 12:23 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierredagenais
Pavel Valentenko is simply the best 1987 european d-man ! Great news for ppl who never see Valentenko play : He will play in the lhjmq. (next year)

Expect him to be as good as Igor Ulanov



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Old
06-27-2006, 09:58 AM
  #33
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
There is a world of difference between the top prospects you named and Corey Locke do we agree here? Locke is overlooked cause he has some major weakness that hurt his game at the Pro level...

About every AHL top pts performers playing some games with the Habs in the past... You have to considere the Habs had one of the worst bunch of top 6 fowards if not the worst one in the entire NHL at some point.. They were desesperately lacking skills up front.. When Savage is your best winger there is major a problem, when Perreault is centering your second line you are in big trouble ect ect... Same could be said about our prospects depth chart.. there is a world of difference between the quality of the kids we drafted since 2001 and the ones drafted before... In fact the best guy we drafted before 2001 is Markov and has been a late round pick... Beauchemin is the second best kid drafted, Gainey thought he would clear the waiver...Ribeiro still isnt established in the NHL (26 years old), same could be said about Ryder, Hainsey is now playing with the worst NHL team, Hossa never blossomed, Balej slowed down by injuries...

From the 2001 draft, 3 are already playing with the Habs and are just about to blossom, 1 from the 2002 in Higgins, look for Kostitsyn to make the jump next year, Lapierre, Ferland close to be NHL ready, Grabovski coming overseas, Latendresse.. Remember a kid that had close the impact he had at the main camp as a 18 years old?

Plekanec wasnt only Bulldogs best pts producer, he was with Higgins the best player in every areas of the game doing everything great... Locke has been able to put some decent numbers but so far to be close effective Plekanec used to be... There are areas of the game Locke has to improve a big deal in goal to become a serious prospect and Im not sold on his weakness... A serious lack of strength\speed\grit is usualy unfortunately fatal.

No I don't think there is a world of difference between Locke and our top prospects in terms of skills. Locke is easily one of our most skilled offensive prospects, I don't think any prospect in our system has the vision/playmaking abillity of Locke. The difference comes in the physical department and that's where there's a big difference. Locke is small, not very fast and clearly lacks strength which hurts his game. He's really good on the PP though and if he can get stronger it would help his game a lot. I personally don't have a lot of hope for him with the Habs unless Ribeiro is gone and even then it will take a lot of work for him to get there since there's other guys coming in like Grabovsky who is around the same size but doesn't have the lack of speed, skating and his lower body strength seems more solid then Locke's.

That said the skill is there so who knows what will happen. The Dogs will really need a big season from him, much better then the year he just had. I do agree our team in the past had a weak group of forwards that led to AHLers getting ice time in addition to all of those injury problems. But it's still a fact that every leading scorer of our AHL team has seen some NHL time and while it will be harder for Locke to see any time then it was for Ryder/Ward/Darby/Gratton if he works hard he should get consideration for getting some time. The Habs left Beauchemin in the AHL, never game him a look other then his 1 game or so and now they likely regret that. Granted the lockout may have cost us Beauchemin but who knows what would have happened if they gave him a shot. With Locke I'm not saying he should play some games with us or we risk seeing him excell in the playoffs down the road for some other team, but if he works hard then he deserves a look imo.

Once Grabovsky is signed I think it gets that much tougher for Locke to see any time, although Grabo can be moved to the LW whereas Locke I don't think he would be effective if he's not at center.

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Old
06-27-2006, 10:23 AM
  #34
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It's very disappointing to see that Milroy and Urquhart are so low in the depth chart, especially considering that they were respectively drafted ahead of Jason Pomminville and Patrice Bergeron.

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06-27-2006, 10:57 AM
  #35
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I find it strange to see people with Aubin so far down on their list. He had one of the best seasons of all Habs prospects and doesn't get the talk he deserves. I'm guessing it's because he wasn't a high draft pick.

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06-27-2006, 11:05 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy
I find it strange to see people with Aubin so far down on their list. He had one of the best seasons of all Habs prospects and doesn't get the talk he deserves. I'm guessing it's because he wasn't a high draft pick.
That and the fact he's a bit soft...

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Old
06-27-2006, 11:32 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Star
That and the fact he's a bit soft...
Indeed. I'm afraid of possibly another Urquhart type. But his numbers are good, and it should be interesting to see how he does in Hamilton. Will be a big step. He'll either remain in obscurity, or shoot up the charts.

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Old
06-27-2006, 03:15 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
No I don't think there is a world of difference between Locke and our top prospects in terms of skills. .
There is a reason why Locke never made team Canada Junior even if he quite dominated the OHL in term of pts... While guys like Carter, Getzlaf (both finished the year with about half pts Locke got in the season) were winning the gold medal dominating at a higher level, Locke was racking pts in the OHL.. he had not even been invited the the WJC training camp that year if I remember... The pts he racked in junior mean absoluly nothing, these days you have to be able to play the system, to be able to do the little things needed in the goal to win hockey games.. Winning your battles along the board, be first on the puck, have a good hustle, speed, play smart in the 3 zones... Do you seriously think Mike Ribeiro can last in the 'new' NHL long if he doesnt improve a big deal his quickness and strength? (..what is rather hopeless considering his so skilled frame)

As quality prospects, guys like Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Higgins, Plekanec, Latendresse, Chipchura are in another class, they are just naturally suited for the NHL while a guy like Locke will have to work extremmely hard on his weakness to become a serious prospect..

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Old
06-27-2006, 03:26 PM
  #39
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
There is a reason why Locke never made team Canada Junior even if he quite dominated the OHL in term of pts... While guys like Carter, Getzlaf (both finished the year with about half pts Locke got in the season) were winning the gold medal dominating at a higher level, Locke was racking pts in the OHL.. he had not even been invited the the WJC training camp that year if I remember... The pts he racked in junior mean absoluly nothing, these days you have to be able to play the system, to be able to do the little things needed in the goal to win hockey games.. Winning your battles along the board, be first on the puck, have a good hustle, speed, play smart in the 3 zones... Do you seriously think Mike Ribeiro can last in the 'new' NHL long if he doesnt improve a big deal his quickness and strength? (..what is rather hopeless considering his so skilled frame)

As quality prospects, guys like Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Higgins, Plekanec, Latendresse, Chipchura are in another class, they are just naturally suited for the NHL while a guy like Locke will have to work extremmely hard on his weakness to become a serious prospect..
My point is that skill wise there is not much difference between Locke and our other top prospects. The problem is just what you said about speed, hustle, quickness and strength. This is where the problem comes in for Locke but he's still highly skilled with the puck and IMO as skilled as any of our prospects with his offensive talents. It's his lack of physical abilities (skating/foot speed/strength) that kept from off Team Canada's roster and why he hasn't even gotten a sniff of the NHL yet. But physical things can be improved whereas natural talents with the puck isn't something you can teach or coach.

I agree with a lot of the things you say but I also give him credit for his offensive skills and that there's hope he can work on his speed/strength. I know he's got his work cut out for him but we'll see what he does. He's running out of time since it will be his final contract year next season.

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Old
06-27-2006, 08:13 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
He's running out of time since it will be his final contract year next season.
Time fly, I didnt think he was under contract for only one year remaining... Are Lambert and Urquhart in the same situation?

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Old
06-27-2006, 08:20 PM
  #41
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
Time fly, I didnt think he was under contract for only one year remaining... Are Lambert and Urquhart in the same situation?
Yes all 3 plus Kostitsyn have 1 year left on their contracts.

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