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New Lines at Practice Today 1/26

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:35 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post

Wasn't our with/without him record lopsided like that last year too? Dude is obviously just a winner.
I don't think it held up quite as well last year, but definitely the year(s?) before it was a crazy split.

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01-26-2013, 08:35 PM
  #52
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I'm just surprised Ruff broke up Stafford - Ennis..... thought they needed each other.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Leino - Ennis - Foligno line once Leino gets back:

Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Leino- Ennis - Foligno
Ott -Grigorenko - Stafford
Gerbe - Hecht - Kaleta

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01-26-2013, 08:36 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Ennis and Stafford have been far more of a problem than foligno
No, Foligno has been meh to blah. I think we all expected more. He looks way too complacent.

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01-26-2013, 08:38 PM
  #54
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Before the season, even before Hecht was signed, I thought Ruff needed a three scoring line set-up if three scoring type Cs were on the roster. Grigorenko is that guy now, since IMO Hecht is not a "scoring type" and should be more of a 4th line C or 3rd line W (or wherever a hole opens up). Also, since IMO there's nothing to lose this season (no big expectations) Ruff may as well play Grigorenko in any/all scenarios to speed up his learning curve. I don't believe in a young player getting "ruined" by hard knocks early on. If that's so he probably isn't mentally tough enough to be a great player anyway.

So for the above reasons I'd like to see three balanced lines by breaking up Vanek and Pominville. It was working fine late last season during their run. I'd like...

26-19-9...Ott is a better version of Tropp, and they played well down the stretch.
23-25-29...when Leino gets back, see what they can do with a combo of board work, rookie playmaker, and good veteran two-way play.
82-63-21...they were great last season because other teams couldn't match-up to three scoring lines.
32/42-55/37-36...switch Scott and Gerbe depending on the team, but either way that's a great 4th line.

I would LOVE to see what those lines could do, with no particular line being "#1", "#2", or "#3".

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01-26-2013, 09:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Before the season, even before Hecht was signed, I thought Ruff needed a three scoring line set-up if three scoring type Cs were on the roster. Grigorenko is that guy now, since IMO Hecht is not a "scoring type" and should be more of a 4th line C or 3rd line W (or wherever a hole opens up). Also, since IMO there's nothing to lose this season (no big expectations) Ruff may as well play Grigorenko in any/all scenarios to speed up his learning curve. I don't believe in a young player getting "ruined" by hard knocks early on. If that's so he probably isn't mentally tough enough to be a great player anyway.

So for the above reasons I'd like to see three balanced lines by breaking up Vanek and Pominville. It was working fine late last season during their run. I'd like...

26-19-9...Ott is a better version of Tropp, and they played well down the stretch.
23-25-29...when Leino gets back, see what they can do with a combo of board work, rookie playmaker, and good veteran two-way play.
82-63-21...they were great last season because other teams couldn't match-up to three scoring lines.
32/42-55/37-36...switch Scott and Gerbe depending on the team, but either way that's a great 4th line.

I would LOVE to see what those lines could do, with no particular line being "#1", "#2", or "#3".
While I actually kind of like those lines, there's no way to justify breaking up VHP at the moment. Wait for them to fall back to earth for a few games before blowing them up.

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01-26-2013, 10:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Before the season, even before Hecht was signed, I thought Ruff needed a three scoring line set-up if three scoring type Cs were on the roster. Grigorenko is that guy now, since IMO Hecht is not a "scoring type" and should be more of a 4th line C or 3rd line W (or wherever a hole opens up). Also, since IMO there's nothing to lose this season (no big expectations) Ruff may as well play Grigorenko in any/all scenarios to speed up his learning curve. I don't believe in a young player getting "ruined" by hard knocks early on. If that's so he probably isn't mentally tough enough to be a great player anyway.

So for the above reasons I'd like to see three balanced lines by breaking up Vanek and Pominville. It was working fine late last season during their run. I'd like...

26-19-9...Ott is a better version of Tropp, and they played well down the stretch.
23-25-29...when Leino gets back, see what they can do with a combo of board work, rookie playmaker, and good veteran two-way play.
82-63-21...they were great last season because other teams couldn't match-up to three scoring lines.
32/42-55/37-36...switch Scott and Gerbe depending on the team, but either way that's a great 4th line.

I would LOVE to see what those lines could do, with no particular line being "#1", "#2", or "#3".
First, Ott's been our best forward outside of line #1.

Second, I totally agree, especially that it would put Pomms with Grigs as a mentor. Vanek will always get his 70ish points, and Pomms is Pomms. WE have 2 guys we count on, they need to be spread out...

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01-26-2013, 10:36 PM
  #57
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We count on 3 actually...Just one stops everything because the rest of the team besides the 2 can't clear the D zone...

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01-26-2013, 11:09 PM
  #58
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I'm not a fan, breaking up Vanek/Poms or Ennis/Stafford. Becquse that combos where clicking in the past. Id much rather see:

Vanek - Hodgson - JPoms
Ott - Ennis - Stafford
Foligno - Grigs - Leino/Hecht
Hecht/Scott - Ellis - Kaleta

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01-26-2013, 11:09 PM
  #59
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Hate to say it but we're missing gaustad

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01-26-2013, 11:18 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Hate to say it but we're missing gaustad
Purely because of his faceoff prowess and nothing more.

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01-26-2013, 11:22 PM
  #61
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what was this supposed to mean?
If you know the Showtime Series ... Homeland ... He is Carrie Mathison

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01-26-2013, 11:26 PM
  #62
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Purely because of his faceoff prowess and nothing more.
Were missing a big defensive faceoff winning center. We're missing his faceoffs, his defense, his physicality, and his penalty killing

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01-27-2013, 12:21 AM
  #63
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Can I just say for the first time ever that I really hope that Vanek can't play tomorrow? I want Lindy to be forced to give Grigs a bigger role.

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01-27-2013, 12:24 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
No, Foligno has been meh to blah. I think we all expected more. He looks way too complacent.
Lindy pulled him aside before the start of the season and gave him a talking to so he understood his role better and he's doing just fine as per Lindy's siggestions.

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01-27-2013, 12:24 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Hate to say it but we're missing gaustad
We're also missing Briere/Drury...
It's all the same crying about the centers who left us.

But I do much rather have Girgs & Grigs in the system than Gaustad.

Goose is solid, but if anyone is stupid enough to offer you a first round pick for him, you take the deal and runaway laughing. And you don't look back.

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01-27-2013, 02:06 AM
  #66
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Lindy pulled him aside before the start of the season and gave him a talking to so he understood his role better and he's doing just fine as per Lindy's siggestions.
what???

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01-27-2013, 02:12 AM
  #67
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Can I just say for the first time ever that I really hope that Vanek can't play tomorrow? I want Lindy to be forced to give Grigs a bigger role.
So you want our best forward to not play so that Ruff can move Hecht up there and play Grigs with Kaleta and Scott, or even possibly sit him? Because moving Grigs to Hodgson's wing probably isn't happening and if Ruff was gonna break up FES then Grigs woul probably get a bigger role regardless.

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01-27-2013, 09:09 AM
  #68
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Ennis isn't a true center IMO. He isn't able to generate his offense as well, I think (correct me if I'm wrong please. It just seems that way to me.) when he was on the wing. I'd try Ott at centers as he's a quick and big bodied guy. We need to mix up the FES line.
Respectfully disagree. Ennis has been better up the middle where he doesn't have to work the boards as much, IMHO.

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01-27-2013, 09:10 AM
  #69
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No, Foligno has been meh to blah. I think we all expected more. He looks way too complacent.
He looks gassed.

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01-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #70
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Not too worry.....

Grigs will probably sit out today so Lindy can help him more at practices......

And we're now going to start playing real hockey and not that pond hockey ****!

You know, dump and chase! I.e.; voluntarily give up possession of the puck in the NZ, shoot it in and expect your fast, big, bruising and good hands wingers to go in and fight to get the puck back from the team you just gave it to.

Heck, we don't really need a slick puck handling wizard center ice men for that anyways.....

Kind of an interesting way of dealing with Ennis's recent relapse of shinny, eh......? (Why not sit his butt down?? Or move him to wing??)

We shall see.... we shall see....

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01-27-2013, 11:00 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
Grigs will probably sit out today so Lindy can help him more at practices......

And we're now going to start playing real hockey and not that pond hockey ****!

You know, dump and chase! I.e.; voluntarily give up possession of the puck in the NZ, shoot it in and expect your fast, big, bruising and good hands wingers to go in and fight to get the puck back from the team you just gave it to.

Heck, we don't really need a slick puck handling wizard center ice men for that anyways.....

Kind of an interesting way of dealing with Ennis's recent relapse of shinny, eh......? (Why not sit his butt down?? Or move him to wing??)

We shall see.... we shall see....
Actually it makes perfect sense what he's asking them to do. They have been trying to be WAY too cute with the puck and are turning it over repeatedly. Its also not about dump an chase but about taking whats there and stop trying to force low percentage passes and plays. Can you even remember us cycling the puck much the last few games? Or controlling possession for very long?

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01-27-2013, 11:12 AM
  #72
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Not a fan of dump and chase. Maybe I watched too much Russion style hockey back in the 80's (Red Army) and Bowman's Russian 5 in Detroit.

Going to dump and chase (from the center/blue lines - which is what I took away) is almost an act of desperation in my coaching book. When nothing else works, do that.

I, like you, favor short quick tight area passes - one line or less with everyones feet moving and good support from the D. Enter the zone with your fwds as a line at oblique angles to each other and not on a level plane. You know what I mean 'cause you've coached it and expressed it in your analysis too.

If you shoot it in, do so with purpose... to a designated spot on the ice or boards and everyone knows what the plan is for recovery.

If that's what he means, then it's not dump and chase. It's a planned entry.

Plus, Ruff expressed it in such juvenile fashion.... "play real hockey, not pond hockey". And he has Stafford et al saying the same thing.....

Maybe it was the audience Ruff was talking too (TBN reporters? s)

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01-27-2013, 11:20 AM
  #73
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Can you even remember us cycling the puck much the last few games? Or controlling possession for very long?

Should have answered you more directly ......

Agree, there's been little O-zone possession. They have attempted to cycle ... or at least bring the puck up the boards back towards our D at the point... and then back pass to waiting Sabre fwd in the corner. But the opposition has sealed that off consistantly.

Secondary fwd puck support has been lacking, legs aren't moving and linemates frequently aren't where they need to be (VHP for the most part excepted).

Which has resulted in so many of the turnovers/give aways in the O zone (Grigs, Hodgson, etc.)

Lack of practice time and no pre-season games has definitely been a factor here.

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01-27-2013, 11:31 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
Not a fan of dump and chase. Maybe I watched too much Russion style hockey back in the 80's (Red Army) and Bowman's Russian 5 in Detroit.

Going to dump and chase (from the center/blue lines - which is what I took away) is almost an act of desperation in my coaching book. When nothing else works, do that.

I, like you, favor short quick tight area passes - one line or less with everyones feet moving and good support from the D. Enter the zone with your fwds as a line at oblique angles to each other and not on a level plane. You know what I mean 'cause you've coached it and expressed it in your analysis too.

If you shoot it in, do so with purpose... to a designated spot on the ice or boards and everyone knows what the plan is for recovery.

If that's what he means, then it's not dump and chase. It's a planned entry.

Plus, Ruff expressed it in such juvenile fashion.... "play real hockey, not pond hockey". And he has Stafford et al saying the same thing.....

Maybe it was the audience Ruff was talking too (TBN reporters? s)
I think the problem has been players coming in with a wide range of fitness levels and preparedness (league wide). Combine that with a truncated training camp and its been tough for most teams, let alone the Sabres, to get back to the systems they've played. I've watched a decent amount of games and many have been very slopping from a system pov and defensively. Its led to some exciting games and others where there are a lot of ices, offsides, etc.

Its hard to get a team playing the type of system we like in this environment. Right now they've reverted as players to pickup hockey offensive tactics. A way to get them to play a less sloppy game and get back to the base fundamentals is to simplify things and get back on track. Then slowly re-insert elements of the system as the season moves along.

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01-27-2013, 11:33 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I think the problem has been players coming in with a wide range of fitness levels and preparedness (league wide). Combine that with a truncated training camp and its been tough for most teams, let alone the Sabres, to get back to the systems they've played. I've watched a decent amount of games and many have been very slopping from a system pov and defensively. Its led to some exciting games and others where there are a lot of ices, offsides, etc.

Its hard to get a team playing the type of system we like in this environment. Right now they've reverted as players to pickup hockey offensive tactics. A way to get them to play a less sloppy game and get back to the base fundamentals is to simplify things and get back on track. Then slowly re-insert the system as the season moves along.
Yes, Yes, and Yes. Spot on Josh. (as my response to you on the Ruff thread also expressed.... )

Playing one another is a scrimmage or two is not the same as having a pre-season.

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