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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-26-2013, 11:18 PM
  #101
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
MB likely isn't, but if you listen to what PK said in his interview, he likely thinks himself worth 6+ per. You know number 1 dman and all. Yeah subby don't strain your arm patting yourself for being better than Kaberle and rookies. So even if MB was offering 3.5 and subban wanted 6 there would be no movement. It might not be MB that isn't moving his price point. Didn't we go through this with Theo-after he won a HART! Same agent, same tactics and Subban doesn't have a hart or norris or much else -Yet
You listened to what PK said and pulled a number out of your head.

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01-26-2013, 11:18 PM
  #102
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Except the people who actually spoke to Subban -as in Stubbs, the man who conducted the interview, said the 6M talk is ridiculous.
And he also said that there's a 2-3 million dollar gap.

We know that Bergevin is offering 2.55 million.

So therefore, the mathematically literate among us know that Subban's camp expects 4.55-5.55 million per year.

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01-26-2013, 11:22 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
You listened to what PK said and pulled a number out of your head.
I would have went with another body part myself.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And he also said that there's a 2-3 million dollar gap.

We know that Bergevin is offering 2.55 million.

So therefore, the mathematically literate among us know that Subban's camp expects 4.55-5.55 million per year.
Which is exactly what Subban is worth. Shocking !

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:23 PM
  #104
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That's not really an answer. Fine, Bergevin hasn't been in his chair long, but already he's got a hand in turning a fairly simple (IMO) roster move into a complete circus. now it may turn out that MB has been making fair offers all along and PK, despite his statement to Dave Stubbs, really does demand a Doughty contract.

I;m simply saying it doesn;t look that way, and if MB is really trying to hold some hard line on one of his 2 or 3 best players, then it really doesn't make any sense as part of a bigger plan. He'll either lose the player or end up fleeced in a trade in all likelihood...holdout trades tend to not work out for the team with the unhappy player to peddle off.

And that he's new to the job doens't comfort me, one might think this is only the beginning of more peculiar moves to come.
The worst thing for me isn't "it's my way or the highway" but rather "it's my way" which is just plain neurotic.

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01-26-2013, 11:23 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And he also said that there's a 2-3 million dollar gap.

We know that Bergevin is offering 2.55 million.

So therefore, the mathematically literate among us know that Subban's camp expects 4.55-5.55 million per year.
Which is a...perfectly reasonable price range. Which means not Doughty money, but Myers money or less.

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01-26-2013, 11:32 PM
  #106
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I too have a hard time believing this rumor. Might possible that it was the offer that was made at first. But right now ?

like if the first offer is 5 for two years, and the other side is somewhat reasonnable, they wouldnt come to an agreement, sorta meet in between.

The only way that's true is if the other side showed no willingness to compromise, kinda
- MB offered 5 mil for two years at first
- PK asking for something like 6 mil per

they meet again
- "Sorry Marc, I still want 6 per"
- "OK, well, here's our 2.5 Mil offer PK"

like if MB was offering 5 mil for two he wouldnt agree to let's say 5.5 for two years... or if Subban wanted 3 he would comeback with "OK Marc, gimme 2.8 and we call it a day" or something.
Where are you getting 6M per? Or are you just making that up to fit the opposite of what 2.5 offer would be?

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01-26-2013, 11:33 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And he also said that there's a 2-3 million dollar gap.

We know that Bergevin is offering 2.55 million.

So therefore, the mathematically literate among us know that Subban's camp expects 4.55-5.55 million per year.
you know, despite the multiple sources repeating that # (or at least ballpark) as the Habs offer, part of me still doesn't believe it.

What could possess MB & the habs brass to even consider offering such a lowball salary to a player who quite arguably has been their best performer the past 2 seasons (to say nothing of future potential).

How could any GM/Owner be that dense? It seems absurd to the point that there must be some other factor at play here that is, thus far, hidden from view

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01-26-2013, 11:39 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
It's all over the news now. If you consider that as rumors then that's fine with me.
has any of the two side confirmed ?

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01-26-2013, 11:40 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Where are you getting 6M per? Or are you just making that up to fit the opposite of what 2.5 offer would be?
Good question.

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01-26-2013, 11:41 PM
  #110
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Where are you getting 6M per? Or are you just making that up to fit the opposite of what 2.5 offer would be?
example. nothing more, nothing less.

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01-26-2013, 11:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And he also said that there's a 2-3 million dollar gap.

We know that Bergevin is offering 2.55 million.

So therefore, the mathematically literate among us know that Subban's camp expects 4.55-5.55 million per year.
still just a rumor.

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #112
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I don't know. Gauthier sucked but I doubt he would be this dumb with Subban.
He is a thoroughbred, no?

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01-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #113
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Both are from Quebec.

It would please the francophone fans.

=]

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Old
01-26-2013, 11:57 PM
  #114
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I think the deal is PK Subban wants 6 years @ $5 million per season, $30 million in total. Meaning PK will be a UFA at 29.

The Habs want 2 years @ ~$3 million per year (aka bridge contract), then after sign him to a deal like Pacorietty and Price both 6 years, meaning PK will be a UFA at 31.

It has to do with investing in long term of UFA. This could mean PK wants to play somewhere else. Price and Pacorietty both took 2 years bridge contracts and they love Montreal.

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01-26-2013, 11:57 PM
  #115
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I have a plan in place that will entail me being a billionaire with a super model wife who lets me have orgies (females only) on a regular basis.

Just because I have a plan doesn't mean it will work.

When you look at what Bergevin is doing, it's rather simple to connect the dots and see that he doesn't appear to be too bright. Any one who goes in with his top defenseman and gives him a contract that is fitting of a 3rd liner then refuses to budge for more than half a calendar year? That guy is a ****ing idiot. Plain and simple.
Sadly, I have to agree. I will preface my remark, however, with the caveat that I am taking the now widely reported contract details as correct.

But, assuming they ARE correct? Wow, just wow. It is unconscionable that they're at the crazy-low first offer stage.....now!

If the rumours are true that the two sides are $2.5-$3M apart in $$$ per year, that means that Subban was *asking* about $5M on a long-term deal. Meaning Bergevin could probably get a deal signed at $4-4.5M. Who would NOT want to do that? Even if PK irritates a few vets down the road, and the club wanted to move him, that would be an easily tradeable contract.

I just don't get it. If you're the GM of the Montreal Canadiens, how can you start the season with a player unsigned who is at the moment when he has the least leverage in his entire career?

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01-26-2013, 11:58 PM
  #116
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People are calling Bergevin a moron and stupid and idiotic and racist and other names.

And the man has yet to complete a year.

Bergevin has a plan to turn this franchise around. There will be the UFA season coming up. There will be trades to be made.

Every single franchise in every single sport has traded or made moves regarding players on their team who is good at what the do.

You have to move good players to get good players.

Montreal will not win the Cup because of Subban. Nor will Montreal lose the Cup because of Subban. He is but one part in the puzzle that has many movable parts.

If Subban is no longer a Hab one day, the sun will still rise in the East and the Canadiens will still play hockey.
Subban would be a big part of any cup win. We should recognize this and plan accordingly.

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I know that you believe that.

Do you remember the $7 million dollar Gomez contract that hamstrung this team by not allowing us to sign quality players to fill the needs of the team.

Remember James Wiesniewski? Great DMan who performed very well for the Habs. But we had to let him go because we could not afford his contract.

And you want to go down that path as soon as we unloaded that huge contract?
The money was the least of the problem.

There were several reasons to hate the Gomez trade, not the least of which he was a mediocre player who wasn't going to lead us anywhere and we gave up way to much for him.

As far as I was concerned, we shouldn't have wasted our time with him to begin with. All he did was cement medicority for three or four years. THAT plus losing McD was the real problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
To Pittsburgh: PK Subban

To Montreal: Pascal Dupuis, Simon Despres
I am so depressed...

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:00 AM
  #117
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Both are from Quebec.

It would please the francophone fans.

=]
Correction : It would please some francophone fans.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:01 AM
  #118
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He is a thoroughbred, no?
That was what Gainey said about Price

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01-27-2013, 12:06 AM
  #119
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Subban really needs to sign ASAP.. It gets tiring reading offers from Oiler fans that include packages that include players like Whitney, MPS, Marincin with picks and prospects and nothing of any value added. They really seem to believe they can get PK for scraps.

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01-27-2013, 12:12 AM
  #120
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you know, despite the multiple sources repeating that # (or at least ballpark) as the Habs offer, part of me still doesn't believe it.

What could possess MB & the habs brass to even consider offering such a lowball salary to a player who quite arguably has been their best performer the past 2 seasons (to say nothing of future potential).

How could any GM/Owner be that dense? It seems absurd to the point that there must be some other factor at play here that is, thus far, hidden from view
Seriously? How could you ask such a question: "How could an owner be that dense?"

You DO realize that this is an owner who was part of a group that UNANIMOUSLY backed a similar crazy-low strategy dealing with the players union, going in with 43% of revenue, then even after the season should have started was still making insulting offers like "making the players whole" with THEIR OWN dollars!!

MB has his principles, didn't Bill Daly say the owners were ready to "die on a hill" to make sure no contracts went past 5 years, then after missing 3 months, we ended up with 7-8 year maximums?

I don't know why we would be shocked to see such incompetence now when we witnessed it daily for 6 months.

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01-27-2013, 12:18 AM
  #121
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Subban really needs to sign ASAP.. It gets tiring reading offers from Oiler fans that include packages that include players like Whitney, MPS, Marincin with picks and prospects and nothing of any value added. They really seem to believe they can get PK for scraps.
It is logical for other teams to think they can get Subban for a low price. They believe that the Habs GM will value him as a $2.55M/year player and will seek value in a trade accordingly.

This possibility or probability is what is freaking out the Habs fans so much.

If the above is untrue, if the Habs think PK Subban is a $4.5-6M player, then it is total incompetence to be 4 games into the season as of tonight and still have only a $2.55M offer on the table to one of your three core players.

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01-27-2013, 12:32 AM
  #122
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Last summer, the Flyers wanted Shea Weber in a trade, when they lost patience, they made an offer sheet.

Rumour has it they have made a trade proposal for Subban involving Couturier.

If they lose patience, they could offer Subban 30 million over 5 years (that makes 6 million a year), the Habs under Bergevin would be very likely to take the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, which would be an inferior option to getting Sean Couturier, which would in turn be an inferior option to keeping Subban.

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01-27-2013, 12:34 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
you know, despite the multiple sources repeating that # (or at least ballpark) as the Habs offer, part of me still doesn't believe it.

What could possess MB & the habs brass to even consider offering such a lowball salary to a player who quite arguably has been their best performer the past 2 seasons (to say nothing of future potential).

How could any GM/Owner be that dense? It seems absurd to the point that there must be some other factor at play here that is, thus far, hidden from view
That's what I asked myself from the start. It makes no sense.
But at the same time, why is there such a disconnect?? I mean, at least in Dallas, rumors were that parties were getting closer. They weren't exactly on par but were set on making concessions and coming to an agreement.
In Mtl, it's as if they are worlds apart, which leads one to believe, where are they?
Every single rumor has been consistent about one thing, Habs management want a small term deal, at a cheap rate. It's the only thing that has consistently been brought up. Even considering PK's camp, we've heard Doughty money, we've heard 5M, we've heard PK willing to drop down to 2years. But the one constant, management going with 2y at a cheap price.
So, I'm still scratching my head.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:38 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
It is logical for other teams to think they can get Subban for a low price. They believe that the Habs GM will value him as a $2.55M/year player and will seek value in a trade accordingly.

This possibility or probability is what is freaking out the Habs fans so much.

If the above is untrue, if the Habs think PK Subban is a $4.5-6M player, then it is total incompetence to be 4 games into the season as of tonight and still have only a $2.55M offer on the table to one of your three core players.
There will probably be a dozen teams that want him and 3 or 4 that will really want him and that's what will drive the price up.

Take Toronto with Bell/Rogers ownership. If they sign Subban, they will probably make more from Leaf TV revenue going up then whatever they end up paying Subban in salary. So, why do they want to lowball an offer for Subban and taking a chance they don't land him?

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01-27-2013, 12:42 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And he also said that there's a 2-3 million dollar gap.

We know that Bergevin is offering 2.55 million.

So therefore, the mathematically literate among us know that Subban's camp expects 4.55-5.55 million per year.
Which would be a bargain if he signs a long term deal. This 2 year bridge garbage should be used when the situation warrants it not a hard and fast rule for every player coming off an entry level contract. The kid is a bonafide top two d-man coming off a season where he had to carry the load with Markov gone. He's ahead of the curve at this point. If we sign him now for two years he'll be wanting more than 5 mil the next time his contract expires. This whole situation makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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