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Old
01-27-2013, 01:04 AM
  #101
The Podium
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I've been saying we arn't good enough for years and for years i keep hearing we're 1 or 2 players away .

We maybe a couple of players away from the playoffs but this team needs a major overhaul if we're going to be a contender .

-we're weak down the middle

-we're soft on the wings

-Reims has potential but he needs a solid vet b/u to help ease the burden and help develop him

-our D is mediocre and most are one deminsional

Also like others have said we're filled with players who only do one thing well while being below avg at the rest of the game .

Overall this team is just a cluster**** on a treadmill to no where .
The frame is definitely there....

Lupull - XXXX - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - XXXX
Frattin - Kadri - Kulemin

XXXX - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Gardiner
XXXX - XXXX
(Top prospect Rielly)

Reimer/XXXX

#1C, 1b G, #2W, #2D and a bottom pairing. Its always been the same.

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01-27-2013, 01:04 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
The Leafs aren't just missing a #1 centre. They are missing a lot of pieces. They are missing size. They are missing stability on the backend. They are missing EFFORT from their best offensive player. They are missing focus. They are missing 4th line players who can ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE and are not a liability when they are on the ice. They are missing stability in net. They are missing a #1 defenceman. They are missing a #2 defenceman. The Leafs absolutely hung Reimer out to dry tonight, and it was embarrassing to watch.

It's been 10 years of this garbage.

10 years, folks.

What are the steps to right the ship? Finish in the bottom 5? Trade assets for prospects?

Yes people, I know its been 5 games, and that's not a lot. But wer'e seeing the SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN, that we have seen for YEARS NOW! How many times, how many flipping times have we seen the EXACT same goal as the Rangers scored for their first goal tonight. Shot from the point. A rebound - opposition players given free reign in front of the net to whack away at the puck as they please - no dmen clearing them out, no dmen even tying up their sticks, and lazy backchecking from the forwards. It's the SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE, people. It's been 5 games but it might as well be 100 games, because this team has not changed.

10 years! I've seen this crap over and over for the last 40 plus years. Their
draft picks either don't pan out or their traded away. Players don't even want
to come here. Watch Boston win a few more cups with our picks. What a joke!

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01-27-2013, 01:06 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
The frame is definitely there....

Lupull - XXXX - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - XXXX
Frattin - Kadri - Kulemin

XXXX - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Gardiner
XXXX - XXXX
(Top prospect Rielly)

Reimer/XXXX

#1C, 1b G, #2W, #2D and a bottom pairing. Its always been the same.
Lupul - Getzlaf (FA) - Kessel

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01-27-2013, 01:12 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
The frame is definitely there....

Lupull - XXXX - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - XXXX
Frattin - Kadri - Kulemin

XXXX - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Gardiner
XXXX - XXXX
(Top prospect Rielly)

Reimer/XXXX

#1C, 1b G, #2W, #2D and a bottom pairing. Its always been the same.
I dont see how Kulemin is a bad #2 Winger, already has 4 points in 5 games. Even not counting him you could argue for Kadri/Frattin, I dont exactly see Kadri as a permanent 3rd liner.

Bottom pairing defense is like the least of our worries, Liles, Komi, Franson, Kostka, Finn, Percy etc. could all fill that role. Rielly has the potential of a top pairing dman.

We really just need to draft a #1 C, then trade or get a UFA #1 Goalie.

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01-27-2013, 01:12 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
Lupul - Getzlaf (FA) - Kessel
Or suck for 40 games, everyone stops their *****ing, we draft Makinnon #1

Sign a UFA D man like Smid to cover for Phaneuf on the top pairing

A vet like Backstrom or Nabokov to help Reimer along

Team is vastly improved in a realistic scenario without dismanteling the team and leaving no major holes in the roster.

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01-27-2013, 01:13 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I dont see how Kulemin is a bad #2 Winger, already has 4 points in 5 games. Even not counting him you could argue for Kadri/Frattin, I dont exactly see Kadri as a permanent 3rd liner.

Bottom pairing defense is like the least of our worries, Liles, Komi, Franson, Kostka, Finn, Percy etc. could all fill that role. Rielly has the potential of a top pairing dman.

We really just need to draft a #1 C, then trade or get a UFA #1 Goalie.
Im trying to get people to stop *****ing in a worst case scenario as the current team stands.

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01-27-2013, 01:14 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
This team is dreadful down to the core.

Kessel should be the 3rd best forward on a good team. He's simply not good enough to lead a team. We have a forward ground built around an elite complimentary player.

Strip it down and start again. The Kessel trade has been the worst thing that could have possibly happened to this team.
Seguin, Hamilton and Knight would be doing squat the way this team is put together. With the way some of these so called Leaf fans behave, Seguin would have been labelled a bust and run out of town in his terrible rookie season -- probably by the same fellas who continue, day in and day out, in criticizing Kessel. How many points does Seguin have so far this season? Must be a bust.

Kessel is a great player, the best player in the trade, we simply need more great players.

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01-27-2013, 01:15 AM
  #108
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Slow your roll, it's a development year. The team will finish with a high pick (or two) and build from there. Also don't forget Rielly isn't on the team and Gardiner is in the AHL recovering from the concussion. The team's best two young players weren't in this debacle, so relax.

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01-27-2013, 01:19 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post

Team is vastly improved in a realistic scenario without dismanteling the team and leaving no major holes in the roster.

The way I see it is this team tries to patch up the holes but it doesn't work. GEt THE TALENT!

I want Phaneuf gone tbh. Look at the Blues' model, they've done everything right. It's the leafs' management that have no idea how to do a proper re-build, it started with Burkie's quick fix need, and Nonis will do the same.

#1 = Getz
Draft = Monahan. If we don't get top or #2 pick.
UFA D = I agree. A MUST!
BG = Why not Bernier? He's being wasted.

Things to look forward to: Kadri improving, Reimer beasting, Gardiner & Rielly developing.

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01-27-2013, 01:22 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
The frame is definitely there....

Lupull - XXXX - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - XXXX
Frattin - Kadri - Kulemin

XXXX - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Gardiner
XXXX - XXXX
(Top prospect Rielly)

Reimer/XXXX

#1C, 1b G, #2W, #2D and a bottom pairing. Its always been the same.
Very optimistic .

Lupes has had 1 very good year . I don't see Grabo as a 2nd line C on a contending team . Kads either plays on the top 2 lines or you move him , he's not a good fit on the 3rd line . I don't see Dion as a 1st pair D and like i said Reims has potential but he's no lock to be a num 1 .

It's also not just looking at individual players and then plugging in replacements . This team has a number of solid pieces but the pieces don't fit well together and that's a major reason why we've haven't made the playoffs in years .

This teams core players arn't good enough to lead you anywhere and until you have the cornerstones to build a team around you're not ever going to be a top echleon team .

Maybe Reilly becomes one of thise players and maybe with this years pick we can get another but we'll have to give these kids a few years to develop to the point where they can lead this team .

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01-27-2013, 01:27 AM
  #111
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The Leafs: Just not good enough
You should be a detective.

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01-27-2013, 01:31 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
The way I see it is this team tries to patch up the holes but it doesn't work. GEt THE TALENT!

I want Phaneuf gone tbh. Look at the Blues' model, they've done everything right. It's the leafs' management that have no idea how to do a proper re-build, it started with Burkie's quick fix need, and Nonis will do the same.

#1 = Getz
Draft = Monahan. If we don't get top or #2 pick.
UFA D = I agree. A MUST!
BG = Why not Bernier? He's being wasted.

Things to look forward to: Kadri improving, Reimer beasting, Gardiner & Rielly developing.
The Blues rebuild has taken forever.... People look at the finished product and say look what they did thats what i want. Every powerhouse in the NHL were the leagues laughing stock not too long ago. People need to realize that the NHL is a revolving door, when your up youll stay, when your down itll take a while before you get out. Everytime you decide you want to sell your good players for a pick your asking to wait 5 years for a player who MIGHT be as good, but may be significantly worse. Thats why the hoopla after every loss is getting tiresome. It seems as though this fan base is a bunch of idiots who have no idea how hockey works. I cringe everytime i see "blow it up". I can tell those who know hockey from those who dont the second i see "trade Kessel for a top 5 pick". No team bad enough to be top 5 will deal a lottery pick for a UFA to be (diffeerent scenario from when Burke did, he was an RFA). You want to deal your top players for picks, then expect 15+ picks which are essentially worthless. A realistic rebuild is dealing top players for top prospects, or keep them long term as vet leaders and deal middiling players that dont "fit" for picks. A true rebuild puts us in our position now, the position Boston was 4/5 years ago, the same position St. Louis was in 4/5 years ago, etc. Look at those teams and they arent much different from the ones today.

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01-27-2013, 01:38 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Very optimistic .

Lupes has had 1 very good year . I don't see Grabo as a 2nd line C on a contending team . Kads either plays on the top 2 lines or you move him , he's not a good fit on the 3rd line . I don't see Dion as a 1st pair D and like i said Reims has potential but he's no lock to be a num 1 .

It's also not just looking at individual players and then plugging in replacements . This team has a number of solid pieces but the pieces don't fit well together and that's a major reason why we've haven't made the playoffs in years .

This teams core players arn't good enough to lead you anywhere and until you have the cornerstones to build a team around you're not ever going to be a top echleon team .

Maybe Reilly becomes one of thise players and maybe with this years pick we can get another but we'll have to give these kids a few years to develop to the point where they can lead this team .
Lupul had 1 PPG year. There is a difference. Look at his statistical history, he has 2 60+ point season 2 50+ point seasons and 2 45+ point seasons. He at the very worst is a ~50 point player, and has been so his entire career. That is second line production and considering he matured and is more physically able 60 points consistently isnt out of the question and is very good from a top line player.

Grabovski is as good a #2C as you can get. 2 Very good comparisons would be Krejci and Zajac. You can deny it all you want but offensive statistics over thee past few seasons in addition to defensive capabilities would suggest these 3 are the closest comparable players in the league (Offensively Krejci > Grabovski > Zajac; Defensively Zajac > Grabovski > Krejci). The funny thing about Zajac and Krejci, both centered the top 6 of Stanley cup finalists in recent years.

Dion is a 1st pairing D man on half the teams in the league. Its hard to argue against a top 15 point producer who hits hard and player adequate D. You may not like him, but he does belong there. We just havent found a partner to maximize his capabilities.

Thats why i suggested a Vet G to tandem Reimer until hes fully capable.

People attack this team beacause they are not doing well, but a lot of the players are capable players on championship teams.

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01-27-2013, 01:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Lupul had 1 PPG year. There is a difference. Look at his statistical history, he has 2 60+ point season 2 50+ point seasons and 2 45+ point seasons. He at the very worst is a ~50 point player, and has been so his entire career. That is second line production and considering he matured and is more physically able 60 points consistently isnt out of the question and is very good from a top line player.

Grabovski is as good a #2C as you can get. 2 Very good comparisons would be Krejci and Zajac. You can deny it all you want but offensive statistics over thee past few seasons in addition to defensive capabilities would suggest these 3 are the closest comparable players in the league (Offensively Krejci > Grabovski > Zajac; Defensively Zajac > Grabovski > Krejci). The funny thing about Zajac and Krejci, both centered the top 6 of Stanley cup finalists in recent years.

Dion is a 1st pairing D man on half the teams in the league. Its hard to argue against a top 15 point producer who hits hard and player adequate D. You may not like him, but he does belong there. We just havent found a partner to maximize his capabilities.

Thats why i suggested a Vet G to tandem Reimer until hes fully capable.

People attack this team beacause they are not doing well, but a lot of the players are capable players on championship teams.
i have a feeling this team will be better toward the end of the season

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01-27-2013, 01:44 AM
  #115
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The Blues rebuild has taken forever.... People look at the finished product and say look what they did thats what i want.
NOTE: 5 top draft picks on their team. Good draft picks. Hello Tarashenko! 16th pick = LUCK. You don't know what you'll get.

Look at their goaltending: keepers nobody wanted but they're getting the job done, add experience, GRIT and some good talent = WINNER. Sure it takes time but 9 years is not ENOUGH time to do a proper rebuild? C'mon now.

Leafs management are all to blame. Pure incompetence. Who's the head scout? FIRE HIM.

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01-27-2013, 01:51 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
NOTE: 5 top draft picks on their team. Good draft picks. Hello Tarashenko! 16th pick = LUCK. You don't know what you'll get.

Look at their goaltending: keepers nobody wanted but they're getting the job done, add experience, GRIT and some good talent = WINNER. Sure it takes time but 9 years is not ENOUGH time to do a proper rebuild? C'mon now.

Leafs management are all to blame. Pure incompetence. Who's the head scout? FIRE HIM.
You dont fire the head scout who has produced more NHLers than the majority of the league without 1st picks the majority of the time....

9 years is enough, its not when there is a revolving door of GMs who are out in 4 if they dont produce a winner. Not to mention the total rehaul due to the years of trading youth and picks for worthless players. People compain that the Kessel trade is the worst deal ever, not sure people know that with the pick dealt for Toskala, San Jose moved up with a 2nd for Couture. Now thats a terrible trade. Trading what became Luongo for a few years of an aged Clark, or Neidermeyer for Kurves. People need to be aware that this team is trading youth for youth something that wasnt happening in the past. Burke was the first to impliment youth, and Nonis took it even futher. Thats why its taking really long.

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01-27-2013, 01:56 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
NOTE: 5 top draft picks on their team. Good draft picks. Hello Tarashenko! 16th pick = LUCK.

Look at their goaltending: keepers nobody wanted but they're getting the job done, add experience, GRIT and some good talent = WINNER. Sure it takes time but 9 years is not ENOUGH time to do a proper rebuild? C'mon now.

Leafs management are all to blame. Pure incompetence.
Who's the head scout? FIRE HIM.
9 years is enough, but management didn't start the rebuild 9 years ago. I agree that management is to be blamed, but there were multiple GM's over those years. Under Quinn, the Leafs were a Cup contender and the trade for Nolan made sense at the time as we're going for the Cup. In hindsight, it didn't work out. Plus, there was no salary cap then, so the team could always buy itself out of trouble. Management under JFJ was a debacle with the Toskala and Raycroft trades. One of the biggest lack of foresight was committed by JFJ, which was failing to get a successor for the #1 centre spot while we still had Sundin (though still great at the time, but aging). The rebuild really only began when Burke took over.

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01-27-2013, 02:00 AM
  #118
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The rebuild really only began when Burke took over.
So what you're saying is give it another 5 years and success will come? Not even close. We're missing important pieces, really big pieces.

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01-27-2013, 02:01 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
So what you're saying is give it another 5 years and success will come? Not even close. We're missing important pieces, really big pieces.
Draft MacKinnon

Trade for goalie

Playoffs?

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01-27-2013, 02:04 AM
  #120
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So what you're saying is give it another 5 years and success will come? Not even close. We're missing important pieces, really big pieces.
Yes we are missing important pieces and 5 years is enough time to get them. Who knows, maybe we draft Seth Jones in June, and get both Getzlaf and Perry in the summer.

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01-27-2013, 02:07 AM
  #121
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Draft MacKinnon

Trade for goalie

Playoffs?
drafting first overall dousnt mean they will make the playoffs

the oilers drafted in the top 10 4 years in a row (3 first overall)

and they probably wont make the playoffs thin year either

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01-27-2013, 02:22 AM
  #122
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drafting first overall dousnt mean they will make the playoffs

the oilers drafted in the top 10 4 years in a row (3 first overall)

and they probably wont make the playoffs thin year either
Outside of the big 4(eberle, hall, rnh, yak)+ Schultz, the oilers are extremely barebones.

Honestly that rebuild is going at a snail pace, they need ALOT of supporting pieces.

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01-27-2013, 02:24 AM
  #123
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The rebuild really only began when Burke took over.
Burke was never rebuilding , he had one good t/d and that was only after his retool crashed and burned . For some reason he decided he didn't want to follow that up at last years t/d in a sellers market when he could have at least dealt Mac .

Burke tried to win every year and added vets in that pursuit , just because he failed doesn't mean he was rebuilding .

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01-27-2013, 02:29 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Outside of the big 4(eberle, hall, rnh, yak)+ Schultz, the oilers are extremely barebones.

Honestly that rebuild is going at a snail pace, they need ALOT of supporting pieces.
i the they are a lot closer than we are

because they will probably trade one of the

big 4 in the next two years to add a proven veteran

player and some depth

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01-27-2013, 02:29 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Outside of the big 4(eberle, hall, rnh, yak)+ Schultz, the oilers are extremely barebones.

Honestly that rebuild is going at a snail pace, they need ALOT of supporting pieces.
Adding support pieces to an elite core is alot easier to do than trying to aquire elite pieces . Also , you still need to give your elite kids time to mature and develop .

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