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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-27-2013, 06:59 AM
  #151
Roulin
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
true, and it's also true that he's one of the most reliable guys out there.

but in the "hockey world" a reliable guy is still wrong more often than not.

So, to think this went from rumor to "confirmed" is foolish at best.

It could very well be true, but as of right now it's still just a rumor, not a fact.
- Dreger and Lavoie are as reliable as it gets.

- Both reported the offer as news, not as rumor.

- The terms reported are not vague at all. 2,2 in the first year and 2,9 in the second is more specific than the stuff Eklund and Garrioch make up.

- Given that the offer is reported to have not changed since May, the Subban camp doesn't have many options, other than sitting out longer (I'm sure Subban wants to get back on the ice asap) or soliciting offer sheets (Subban supposedly wants to stay in Montreal). So, to get public and media pressure going, it appears to have been in Subban's interest for Meehan to leak the contract terms. We have a motive.

- There has been a 24 hour poopstorm over this, and no denial from the team, agent or any other media. When a story gets this big, other media scramble to confirm or deny. In this case, there's not a peep of denial.

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01-27-2013, 06:59 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Stubbs has said Subban was willingly to sign a 2 year deal so long as he was compensated properly. Dreger has tweeted that Subban would likely accept a 2 year deal if it was 3.5m+

And he should never have offered such a lowball deal in the first place
have a hard time believing this.

If MB is offering 2.5 per for two years
PK willing to sign at 3.5 per for two years

the difference between the two would be around 1.5 Mil total since we're only playing half a season this year.

If both numbers were right, chances are they would meet somewhere in the middle.

Besides, I'll reserve my judgement on this for later as we've heard from allegedly reliable sources that PK was looking at Doughty's money, it was then denied by reliable source, on the other side we've heard from reliable source that MB was offering around 3 Mil per, now a reliable source is saying MB offer is 2.5 per on average...

So, before saying any of the two made a retarded offer/request, I'll wait to see the real numbers

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01-27-2013, 07:06 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
- Dreger and Lavoie are as reliable as it gets.

- Both reported the offer as news, not as rumor.

- The terms reported are not vague at all. 2,2 in the first year and 2,9 in the second is more specific than the stuff Eklund and Garrioch make up.

- Given that the offer is reported to have not changed since May, the Subban camp doesn't have many options, other than sitting out longer (I'm sure Subban wants to get back on the ice asap) or soliciting offer sheets (Subban supposedly wants to stay in Montreal). So, to get public and media pressure going, it appears to have been in Subban's interest for Meehan to leak the contract terms. We have a motive.

- There has been a 24 hour poopstorm over this, and no denial from the team, agent or any other media. When a story gets this big, other media scramble to confirm or deny. In this case, there's not a peep of denial.

Dont follow "names" as I dont twitt or anything, but wasnt it reported by somewhat reliable sources that MB offer was in the 3 Mil range like last week or something ? and wasnt it a reliable source that said PB wanted Doughty's money ? I mean, if various reliable sources have different numbers, trusting one over another is like flipping a coin.



even if numbers werent right, Agent would have everything to gain in letting people believe in those numbers, would put more pressure on MB.

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01-27-2013, 07:11 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Dont follow "names" as I dont twitt or anything, but wasnt it reported by somewhat reliable sources that MB offer was in the 3 Mil range like last week or something ? and wasnt it a reliable source that said PK wanted Doughty's money ? I mean, if various reliable sources have different numbers, trusting one over another is like flipping a coin.



even if numbers werent right, Agent would have everything to gain in letting people believe in those numbers, would put more pressure on MB.
edit typo

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:32 AM
  #155
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If Subban comes back, he'll do it 'cause he has no choice. Great strategy to have guy come back in that state of mind...

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01-27-2013, 07:38 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If Subban comes back, he'll do it 'cause he has no choice. Great strategy to have guy come back in that state of mind...
He'll be put in his place.

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01-27-2013, 07:44 AM
  #157
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He'll be put in his place.
And again, as if it's the right atmosphere to have in a hockey team. If true, Bergevin offers are insulting and he's the one that needs to be put in his place and start realizing the job he has in the market he's in.

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01-27-2013, 07:48 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And again, as if it's the right atmosphere to have in a hockey team. If true, Bergevin offers are insulting and he's the one that needs to be put in his place and start realizing the job he has in the market he's in.
I suspect DAC was being sarcastic...

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01-27-2013, 07:50 AM
  #159
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So does this mean that Bergevin's honeymoon is now really over??? Lol

With people now wanting Gauthier back or saying McGuire would have been better .. Hilarious.

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01-27-2013, 07:51 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I suspect DAC was being sarcastic...
Sarcasm is not Whitesnakes strong suit when he is pissed

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01-27-2013, 07:56 AM
  #161
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someone said on another board that 2.55 is the initial offer for a bridge contract and since PK hasn't even wanted a short term bridge contract Bergevin has no reason to change his 2.55 offer.

Until PK says he would be open to a 2 year deal why would Bergevin move off his initial offer? This scenario to me makes the most sense.
I think the offer is true and it doesn't make sense for a couple of reasons.

1. If Bergevin wants a bridge deal, the main purpose would be for cost control. If he's willing to go to 4-5million on a bridge deal then the idea is stupid, because PK will most definitely get a significant raise after the deal is up like 99% of all players get.

2. If he had offered fair value, PK would be signed. He said himself he doesn't prefer a bridge deal, but in the end he just wants fair value.

3. It makes no sense to offer a bridge deal unless you're uncertain of the players ability and need to evaluate further (if this is the case, we're in trouble) or you want to restrict costs. PK will end up with more money in the end by accepting a bridge deal, however, security is often more important to a young man with his entire career ahead of him.

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01-27-2013, 07:58 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
So does this mean that Bergevin's honeymoon is now really over??? Lol

With people now wanting Gauthier back or saying McGuire would have been better .. Hilarious.
I was 100% sarcastic about wanting Gauthier back, I'm glad he no longer has any role with this organization, but MB has been unimpressive to date.

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01-27-2013, 08:05 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
So does this mean that Bergevin's honeymoon is now really over??? Lol

With people now wanting Gauthier back or saying McGuire would have been better .. Hilarious.
I don't think anybody actually wants Gauthier back.

At best, some people think Gauthier would have been less stupid. But that's like a battered wife longing for her previous husband because he was less abusive.

I don't want Bergevin, I don't want Gauthier, I don't want post-boat-accident Gainey, and I don't want Houle. They may all have strengths relative to one another but they're all failures. I want a legitimate GM for the Montreal Canadiens.

- Somebody who thinks long-term rather than short-term.
- Somebody who realizes that the top-6 forwards are more important than the bottom-6 forwards.
- I want a GM who evaluates each situation on its own merits rather than one who cooks up ridiculous ideologies like "bridge contracts" and "I won't sign players during the season".
- I want a GM who is comfortable with the cap, not some idiot who is "not a numbers man".
- I want a GM who can build a stanley cup contender, and who can maintain its status.
- No more Ribeiro for Minimum. No more McDonagh for Gomez.

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01-27-2013, 08:06 AM
  #164
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Bergevin has to be fired (before he trades Subban).

(I proposed a replacement GM - anyone that can use his brain - for the Subban contract...some of you thought it was a stupid idea, imo no other GM in the NHL would give this insulting treatment to Subban).





2.5mil/year for 2 years? What a ****ing joke.

I'm so afraid Bergevin will pull the trigger and just trade Subban.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 01-27-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 08:15 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I don't think anybody actually wants Gauthier back.

At best, some people think Gauthier would have been less stupid. But that's like a battered wife longing for her previous husband because he was less abusive.

I don't want Bergevin, I don't want Gauthier, I don't want post-boat-accident Gainey, and I don't want Houle. They may all have strengths relative to one another but they're all failures. I want a legitimate GM for the Montreal Canadiens.

- Somebody who thinks long-term rather than short-term.
- Somebody who realizes that the top-6 forwards are more important than the bottom-6 forwards.
- I want a GM who evaluates each situation on its own merits rather than one who cooks up ridiculous ideologies like "bridge contracts" and "I won't sign players during the season".
- I want a GM who is comfortable with the cap, not some idiot who is "not a numbers man".
- I want a GM who can build a stanley cup contender, and who can maintain its status.
- No more Ribeiro for Minimum. No more McDonagh for Gomez.
Bergevin ex-Subban has been actually damn good so far, IHMO. I will await to see further results before slamming him down.

and Subban's situation hasn't finished yet. How about we see the endgame before calling it a failure?

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01-27-2013, 08:15 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And again, as if it's the right atmosphere to have in a hockey team. If true, Bergevin offers are insulting and he's the one that needs to be put in his place and start realizing the job he has in the market he's in.
His job is to field the most competitive team he can to win a cup. What do you think would earn more money(for molson) subbans rockstar status as of right now, or a cup win with gallyA getting a dozen goals post season? Cammy could do no wrong after the semi finals and halak was untradeable. Well we see where that gets you. A lot of sold sweaters and still shipped out. The habs will win way bigger by fielding a more competitive team than paying subban doughty money as was originally leaked.

Its not MBs job to refute every leak that comes out of subbans camp. If he bows to the media wishes then he will never ice a good team. Bargain and get on with it. They aren't barely talking. Both sides watching the habs to see how they do. Should we beat jersey today(not likely) without patches it will change the negotiations further.

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01-27-2013, 08:17 AM
  #167
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And again, as if it's the right atmosphere to have in a hockey team. If true, Bergevin offers are insulting and he's the one that needs to be put in his place and start realizing the job he has in the market he's in.
I haven't read this entire thread and it probably has already been mentioned but on the Hot Stove last night, when talking about the Habs ~$5m offer over 2 years, Kevin Weekes stated that every GM he has talked to don't understand Bergevin's tactics in his negotiations (or lack of negotiations) with PK.

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01-27-2013, 08:17 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
have a hard time believing this.

If MB is offering 2.5 per for two years
PK willing to sign at 3.5 per for two years

the difference between the two would be around 1.5 Mil total since we're only playing half a season this year.

If both numbers were right, chances are they would meet somewhere in the middle.

Besides, I'll reserve my judgement on this for later as we've heard from allegedly reliable sources that PK was looking at Doughty's money, it was then denied by reliable source, on the other side we've heard from reliable source that MB was offering around 3 Mil per, now a reliable source is saying MB offer is 2.5 per on average...

So, before saying any of the two made a retarded offer/request, I'll wait to see the real numbers
I agree. My feeling is that these number are correct and are indeed those proposed as a starting point last summer. I think Subban was after the long-term deal and was not entertaining the possibility of a short term deal seriously so there was no point for MB to sweeten up the 2 year offer. Now that he could be interested in this, the number will go up.

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01-27-2013, 08:18 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
His job is to field the most competitive team he can to win a cup. What do you think would earn more money(for molson) subbans rockstar status as of right now, or a cup win with gallyA getting a dozen goals post season? Cammy could do no wrong after the semi finals and halak was untradeable. Well we see where that gets you. A lot of sold sweaters and still shipped out. The habs will win way bigger by fielding a more competitive team than paying subban doughty money as was originally leaked.

Its not MBs job to refute every leak that comes out of subbans camp. If he bows to the media wishes then he will never ice a good team. Bargain and get on with it. They aren't barely talking. Both sides watching the habs to see how they do. Should we beat jersey today(not likely) without patches it will change the negotiations further.
Again, what makes you think Subban is requesting Doughty money?!?!

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01-27-2013, 08:19 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
I haven't read this entire thread and it probably has already been mentioned but on the Hot Stove last night, when talking about the Habs ~$5m offer over 2 years, Kevin Weekes stated that every GM he has talked to don't understand Bergevin's tactics in his negotiations (or lack of negotiations) with PK.
That's Kevin Weeks you are talking about....

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01-27-2013, 08:21 AM
  #171
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Bergevin ex-Subban has been actually damn good so far, IHMO. I will await to see further results before slamming him down.

and Subban's situation hasn't finished yet. How about we see the endgame before calling it a failure?
Nah its much easier to say we lowballed one player(rumour and final deal not yet confirmed. But its good enough to moan about) and then to conclude that his whole tenure will suck. Simple eh.

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01-27-2013, 08:22 AM
  #172
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Again, what makes you think Subban is requesting Doughty money?!?!
It's been reported several times from different reliable source. THe Doughty money inseider information is no less reliable than the recent numbers being reported of the terms of the 2 year ~5M offer. IN fact one can consider these numbers date back to may.

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01-27-2013, 08:24 AM
  #173
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That's Kevin Weeks you are talking about....
Its funny that the same guys that most hated every time they said anything in seasons past are now reliable, like dreger or healy. In fact how many here routinely said they stopped watching the CBC because it is so anti hab, even anti subban, yet now is reliable for something supposedly behind doors and confidential.

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01-27-2013, 08:25 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
His job is to field the most competitive team he can to win a cup. What do you think would earn more money(for molson) subbans rockstar status as of right now, or a cup win with gallyA getting a dozen goals post season? Cammy could do no wrong after the semi finals and halak was untradeable. Well we see where that gets you. A lot of sold sweaters and still shipped out. The habs will win way bigger by fielding a more competitive team than paying subban doughty money as was originally leaked.

Its not MBs job to refute every leak that comes out of subbans camp. If he bows to the media wishes then he will never ice a good team. Bargain and get on with it. They aren't barely talking. Both sides watching the habs to see how they do. Should we beat jersey today(not likely) without patches it will change the negotiations further.
I don't get how people are not getting this....but you WILL ice a more competitive team with Subban on the ice wouldn't you? And since we do have tougher times to attract UFA's in this market unless you are overpaying them BIG time la Gionta and Co....why not overpay a guy that grew up in your system and that you KNOW will play an important role in your team? Why not? And people still believes that we have no idea how really he will develop just doesn't have the smarts and the vision to know so.

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01-27-2013, 08:25 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
It's been reported several times from different reliable source. THe Doughty money inseider information is no less reliable than the recent numbers being reported of the terms of the 2 year ~5M offer. IN fact one can consider these numbers date back to may.
No, it's been refuted. Subban is not looking for Doughty money.

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