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Old
01-27-2013, 08:59 AM
  #1
ryno23
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Orr and Brown

Not sure if this belongs in another thread but I think having Orr and Brown on this team is redundant.

Carlyle likes having a tough guy but only played them 3 mins each last night.

Look at the better teams in the NHL they either don't have a tough guy on their team or if so they have only 1 guy.

Listen I know people here love Brown cause of his hustle and willingness to fight. Toronto is a sucker for those type of guys they praises the tough guys more than skill guys....just look at Domi, Motor City Smith, Tiger Williams they all get cult like status in Toronto.

To me Brown is useless on this team. He has no offensive game and now that he no longer kills penalties he is worthless to the Leafs....just a black hole on the ice that cannot create any offensive zone havoc.

You look at the Bruins 4th line which is a model of the NHL. Thornton is their tough guy but both Paille and Campbell can play a tough game and even chip in offensively and work the cycle to wear down teams.

Our 4th line is non existent and in this short season could be useful.

Komorov McClement and Orr would be good on the 4th line and it would allow Nonis to bring someone in to play with Kadri on the 3rd line with a bigger body to compete against the Rangers, Bruins and the other bigger bodies teams in the East.

Do we really need 2 tough guys on this team?

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01-27-2013, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Not sure if this belongs in another thread but I think having Orr and Brown on this team is redundant.

Carlyle likes having a tough guy but only played them 3 mins each last night.

Look at the better teams in the NHL they either don't have a tough guy on their team or if so they have only 1 guy.

Listen I know people here love Brown cause of his hustle and willingness to fight. Toronto is a sucker for those type of guys they praises the tough guys more than skill guys....just look at Domi, Motor City Smith, Tiger Williams they all get cult like status in Toronto.

To me Brown is useless on this team. He has no offensive game and now that he no longer kills penalties he is worthless to the Leafs....just a black hole on the ice that cannot create any offensive zone havoc.

You look at the Bruins 4th line which is a model of the NHL. Thornton is their tough guy but both Paille and Campbell can play a tough game and even chip in offensively and work the cycle to wear down teams.

Our 4th line is non existent and in this short season could be useful.

Komorov McClement and Orr would be good on the 4th line and it would allow Nonis to bring someone in to play with Kadri on the 3rd line with a bigger body to compete against the Rangers, Bruins and the other bigger bodies teams in the East.

Do we really need 2 tough guys on this team?
They played their 3 minutes better than any other Leaf. If you didn't notice the tone after the fights was somewhat settled but as the game wore on the Leafs got man-handled and you could tell even at 2-1 this would be a loss by the Leafs. It was only a matter of time. Without Orr and Brown it would have been worse -- like playing Boston.

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01-27-2013, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Not sure if this belongs in another thread but I think having Orr and Brown on this team is redundant.

Carlyle likes having a tough guy but only played them 3 mins each last night.

Look at the better teams in the NHL they either don't have a tough guy on their team or if so they have only 1 guy.

Listen I know people here love Brown cause of his hustle and willingness to fight. Toronto is a sucker for those type of guys they praises the tough guys more than skill guys....just look at Domi, Motor City Smith, Tiger Williams they all get cult like status in Toronto.

To me Brown is useless on this team. He has no offensive game and now that he no longer kills penalties he is worthless to the Leafs....just a black hole on the ice that cannot create any offensive zone havoc.

You look at the Bruins 4th line which is a model of the NHL. Thornton is their tough guy but both Paille and Campbell can play a tough game and even chip in offensively and work the cycle to wear down teams.

Our 4th line is non existent and in this short season could be useful.

Komorov McClement and Orr would be good on the 4th line and it would allow Nonis to bring someone in to play with Kadri on the 3rd line with a bigger body to compete against the Rangers, Bruins and the other bigger bodies teams in the East.

Do we really need 2 tough guys on this team?
You need to understand, if you put any talented player and play him 5-7 minutes a game, they will never produce, especially on the 4th line. Each line has a role, our 4th line has been the only brightspot in this whole mess. If you think our biggest problem is having a bad 4th line, I seriously question your judgement. We need a better 1st line to be honest.

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01-27-2013, 09:17 AM
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ryno23
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
You need to understand, if you put any talented player and play him 5-7 minutes a game, they will never produce, especially on the 4th line. Each line has a role, our 4th line has been the only brightspot in this whole mess. If you think our biggest problem is having a bad 4th line, I seriously question your judgement. We need a better 1st line to be honest.
How can a 4th line be a brightspot when it plays 3 mins......sure it can't get scored on from the bench.

Tell me which 4th line would you rather have ours or the Bruins 4th line.

I am not talking why they lost last night its not about last nights game its about a whole season and basically playing 3 lines cause the 4th line cannot play more than 5 mins a game.

There are many more problems but this one is easily addressed with players on the Marlies who can play a good grinding 4th line game and still chip in once and while.

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01-27-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
How can a 4th line be a brightspot when it plays 3 mins......sure it can't get scored on from the bench.

Tell me which 4th line would you rather have ours or the Bruins 4th line.

I am not talking why they lost last night its not about last nights game its about a whole season and basically playing 3 lines cause the 4th line cannot play more than 5 mins a game.

There are many more problems but this one is easily addressed with players on the Marlies who can play a good grinding 4th line game and still chip in once and while.
Yeah I'm sure Boston relies on their 4th line to win them games. Their top 3 lines are pretty bad imo, but the 4th line has some serious scoring power. I say we just trade our whole 1st line for their 4th line. They score consistently in their 5 minutes a game. Extrapolate that across a whole season and with 20-25 minutes a game and they will put up HUGE numbers.

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01-27-2013, 09:39 AM
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Bit pathetic to have 2 fighters on the team. It would be different if they could play but both suck. Skill wins hockey games, not plugs. 1 is more then enough and don't need to play unless we play Boston etc

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01-27-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
How can a 4th line be a brightspot when it plays 3 mins......sure it can't get scored on from the bench.

Tell me which 4th line would you rather have ours or the Bruins 4th line.

I am not talking why they lost last night its not about last nights game its about a whole season and basically playing 3 lines cause the 4th line cannot play more than 5 mins a game.

There are many more problems but this one is easily addressed with players on the Marlies who can play a good grinding 4th line game and still chip in once and while.
Do you want Kadri and others getting beat up? That's what will happen. You need toughness on a team with lots of youth.

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01-27-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Do you want Kadri and others getting beat up? That's what will happen. You need toughness on a team with lots of youth.
You think anybody is scared of Orr and Brown? Other teams want them on the ice as much as possible.

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01-27-2013, 10:05 AM
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You think anybody is scared of Orr and Brown? Other teams want them on the ice as much as possible.
Lucic pussied out vs Orr or do you forget that?

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01-27-2013, 10:09 AM
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If they can't actually play hockey - they shouldn't be on the team

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01-27-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Lucic pussied out vs Orr or do you forget that?
Lucic scores goals for his team or did you forget that?

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01-27-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Lucic pussied out vs Orr or do you forget that?
I know what you're saying, but wouldn't Boston want Orr to be on the ice against Lucic? He might have been scared of fighting him but other teams want Orr out there against their good players. The Leafs need more toughness that can actually hurt the other team on the score sheet.

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01-27-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Do you want Kadri and others getting beat up? That's what will happen. You need toughness on a team with lots of youth.
No your right cause I watched Detroit the other night and man Zetterberg and Datsuyk were getting manhandled...hmmm wait that never happened.

Also saw the Hawks game and didn't see Toews, Hossa or Kane get manhandled.

Watched the Oilers last night and they didn't get manhandled with only 1 guy in the lineup Hordichuck.

I am not saying don't play one of them I am saying you don't need 2 of them in the lineup.

Don't forget if there is any shenanigans you also have Komi and Phaneuf who if really needed to avenge injustice to Kadri and Kessel can both do it. Sure you don't want Dion fighting but standing up for his teammates is what the captain has to do if necessary.

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01-27-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
Yeah I'm sure Boston relies on their 4th line to win them games. Their top 3 lines are pretty bad imo, but the 4th line has some serious scoring power. I say we just trade our whole 1st line for their 4th line. They score consistently in their 5 minutes a game. Extrapolate that across a whole season and with 20-25 minutes a game and they will put up HUGE numbers.
You obviously don't know much about the Bruins. Our 4th line averages 9 to 10 minutes a night. Two of it's members are our top pk'ers. They produce at a decent clip for the ice time their given. As an example Campbell currently has the most points for any player on our team. That obviously won't last but you get the point. It gives us balance through out lineup and gives our top lines an extra little bit of a break keeping them that much more fresh. Although, with a tough, physical team it's essential to the teams success.

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01-27-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
You obviously don't know much about the Bruins. Our 4th line averages 9 to 10 minutes a night. Two of it's members are our top pk'ers. They produce at a decent clip for the ice time their given. As an example Campbell currently has the most points for any player on our team. That obviously won't last but you get the point. It gives us balance through out lineup and gives our top lines an extra little bit of a break keeping them that much more fresh. Although, with a tough, physical team it's essential to the teams success.
good post that is what I was trying to get at with my thread that a 4th line that can be reliable will be a huge help long term during this season.

You saw that last night when Orr, Brown got on in the 3rd period they had to put Phaneuf out there to offset the bad forwards instead of sending another d pairing out. I bet that 9 mins they played they had Dion on most of that time. That is 9 more mins Dion should not be on the ice and that doesn't help Dion long term.

Little things that turn a game. Instead of having a fresher Dion in the late 3rd he was gassed. Now you can't have Brown, Orr and Komi all on the ice at the same time cause that would be disaster waiting to happen. Hence playing Dion so much

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01-27-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
You need to understand, if you put any talented player and play him 5-7 minutes a game, they will never produce, especially on the 4th line. Each line has a role, our 4th line has been the only brightspot in this whole mess. If you think our biggest problem is having a bad 4th line, I seriously question your judgement. We need a better 1st line to be honest.
THIS!!! Mc been brilliant on PK and the Orr & Brown constantly dropping the mits... They are the A+ of the team report card so far to date...

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01-27-2013, 10:59 AM
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I posted in the post game thread last night that in my opinion fighters have become irrelevant in todays NHL and last nights game was a classic example of why. Both Brown & Orr won decisions in their fights but thereafter which team went on to pick it up the rest of the game scored 5 goals and won the game?

The fighter goon is on the ice intimidation factor is dead. Some Leafs fans and Don Cherry love their goons but the goon intimidation era is long over because of the big salaries now being paid out to players to perform. If a teams goon wins a fight or loses a fight it doesn't matter any more because the players know that when their ass goes over the boards they are being paid big money to perform now and for future contracts.

I can see the day coming when fighting is eliminated from the NHL and goons are replaced by younger developing players who can actually play the game.

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01-27-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Don't forget if there is any shenanigans you also have Komi and Phaneuf who if really needed to avenge injustice to Kadri and Kessel can both do it. Sure you don't want Dion fighting but standing up for his teammates is what the captain has to do if necessary.
LMFAO
Are you serious man? This comment just ruined a very justifiable point you were making

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01-27-2013, 11:00 AM
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Our fourth line is the least of our worries right now. At least all three members of it get their job done and done well, they know what they have to do and do it well. Brown brings energy. Orr brings energy and protection. McClement has helped our PK a ton.

A fourth line is something you look to improve when your a team like the Rangers who have a great top 6/9 group and is a contender, not us who has bits and pieces of a good forward group and will likely need every bounce to go our way to even make the playoffs.

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01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Lucic pussied out vs Orr or do you forget that?
Didn't Lucic fight Orr and lose? Didn't he give it a shot?

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01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
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i think our fourth line has been the most consistent line during the season. They go out fight and bang and set the tone and we usually respond well. I like having Orr and Brown on the team.

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01-27-2013, 11:05 AM
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i think theyre great
fraser too

the more they fight the more we win

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01-27-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafGardens View Post
I posted in the post game thread last night that in my opinion fighters have become irrelevant in todays NHL and last nights game was a classic example of why. Both Brown & Orr won decisions in their fights but thereafter which team went on to pick it up the rest of the game scored 5 goals and won the game?

The fighter goon is on the ice intimidation factor is dead. Some Leafs fans and Don Cherry love their goons but the goon intimidation era is long over because of the big salaries now being paid out to players to perform. If a teams goon wins a fight or loses a fight it doesn't matter any more because the players know that when their ass goes over the boards they are being paid big money to perform now and for future contracts.

I can see the day coming when fighting is eliminated from the NHL.
You realize those fights came at 0-0, right? We scored two goals after those fights. By no means did we play well at all afterwords, but c'mon at least tell the whole story, or is that too much to ask?


Fighting will never be completely gone, because if it is you'll have morons like Kaleta ruining the game, taking cheap shots at star players and not having to answer the bell. He ran away from Brown with his tail between his legs, and I'd love to see Orr get his hands on that little **** especially after watching him drop his ogre of a bodyguard.

Fighting serves a purpose. Staged ones where it's two enforcers' first shift maybe not, but if you watched Coach's Corner last night, the example of Smid is perfect. Your best player gets drilled, and you gotta stand up for him.

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01-27-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
You obviously don't know much about the Bruins. Our 4th line averages 9 to 10 minutes a night. Two of it's members are our top pk'ers. They produce at a decent clip for the ice time their given. As an example Campbell currently has the most points for any player on our team. That obviously won't last but you get the point. It gives us balance through out lineup and gives our top lines an extra little bit of a break keeping them that much more fresh. Although, with a tough, physical team it's essential to the teams success.
My main point was blaming our 4th line for our terrible team is moronic. Our focus should be getting top end talent to play in our top 6, not taking out Mike Brown. I don't even think our 4th line has been scored on, so I don't see how they are a liability.

It is always he same cycle, every year we blame our 4th line when it looks like our team is going to be ****. Makes no sense.

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01-27-2013, 11:06 AM
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Didn't Lucic fight Orr and lose? Didn't he give it a shot?
Ill give Lucic credit for going Orr, but after pretty well getting his ass handed to him he ran away and hid behind the linesmen to stop the fight, IIRC.

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