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*ALL* PK Subban talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) III

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:09 AM
  #276
SDig14
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As an Oiler fan, this is my opinion. I quite like Subban, pretty solid all around player with elite potential.

Personally, I believe he has a bit to prove before he can be in the discussion with top dmen in the league. HOWEVER, Montreal is using him as if he's been a true #1 for years and because he's clearly the best all around defender on the team.

You simply can't rely on a guy 25+ minutes a night and play him in all situations and then lowball him and pretend he isn't your most important defenseman.

Subban can pretty much do it all and based on how he's been used he knows his worth to Montreal. He will either get paid or get traded, seems pretty simple.

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01-27-2013, 02:59 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
That way of thinkng might have had us sign Komi and Higgins to major bucks and for major terms as both were considered "leaders" and captain material. I dont know about you but Im sure glad they didnt tie up those guys for 6 yrs
Neither of those players have the resume Subban does, nor did they at any point in their career. Komisarek was considered overpaid the insist he signed despite his stellar play with Markov. Meanwhile, Higgins had already suffered a decline due to injury and Montreal gave up on him. Were Galchenyuk to put up 25, 50 and 75 points respectively over a three year period. Do you believe he would accept six million over two years? His agent would eye Plekanec's contract and say, "start there."

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01-27-2013, 03:18 AM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Maybe GM are stunned because recently everyone is getting long term contracts and teams aren't fighting it.

IMO if done the right way there is no need for anyone to be upset, but you are right, some stars won't accept a bridge contract, but I'd rather offer more money and that might work.

It seems like teams are not even trying anymore, guys are getting long term deals before their ELC is even done.

I guess in a way you are right the Habs are not modernizing.
Bridging contracts have become archaic because teams realize they have an excellent opportunity to buy themselves cap space. Kesler is worth more than $5M, Benn is likely to be and Myers may be underpaid soon enough. Regardless, all three are locked in "cap beneficial deals." With how Hab management has treated PK. What motivation does he have to not later seek maximum value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Price was then the only goalie we had as they traded Halak, he could have easily held out to a long term contract since he had the Habs by the balls. Give him a fair bridge contract. I rather have that than having a situation where you sign a young guy like Phaneuf for 6.5m because he had two great seasons.
Good for Carey, he opted for a shorter term. Why? Not to do management any favors. He did so to strengthen his own bargaining position. Upon the time of his renewal, Price had little to no leverage in regards to status - he was essentially a "backup." By accepting a lesser deal, Price erased the "playoff hero" image from people's minds, reclaimed his throne and demanded $6.5M as a result. He held all the leverage to "cash in" and did so.

Suffice it to say, Montreal's own philosophy bit them in the ass.

Why does this not apply to Subban? He has nothing else to prove, and has chosen to maximize his worth now in lieu of tempting fate. Unlike Price, Subban did not struggle but flourished in the #1 role. His leverage is considerably higher.

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01-27-2013, 06:22 AM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
Wouldn't take Couturier for Subban unless the Flyers added a decent piece. Or Schenn bros for Subban.
And thus you will not get either...I have said over and over again, Couts straight up for Subs is more then fair....both sides over value their own players and undervalue other teams....I would think if you took a poll, that non hab and non flyer fans, that most would agree a one for one swap between couts and subs would be just.....

We are offering elite for elite.....and both Schenns is to much...you would have to bring something else to the table.....

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01-27-2013, 06:26 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Devonator View Post
And thus you will not get either...I have said over and over again, Couts straight up for Subs is more then fair....both sides over value their own players and undervalue other teams....I would think if you took a poll, that non hab and non flyer fans, that most would agree a one for one swap between couts and subs would be just.....

We are offering elite for elite.....and both Schenns is to much...you would have to bring something else to the table.....
That has nothing to do with the absolute assessment of both players.

Couturier would be less valuable to the Habs, overall, than Subban would be to the Flyers. We don't need a Centre THAT much, the Flyers are somewhat desperate for better quality defensemen.

Therefore, one side will pay more.


Last edited by PricePkPatch: 01-27-2013 at 06:40 AM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 08:48 AM
  #281
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I don't understand how with the history the Canidiens have, thier GM can be this stupid.
We have a very long history of stupid GMs.

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Old
01-27-2013, 08:52 AM
  #282
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I'm curious what the Rangers would realistically offer.

Del Zotto, Hagelin, Thomas?

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Old
01-27-2013, 08:57 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by captain9nyr View Post
I'm curious what the Rangers would realistically offer.

Del Zotto, Hagelin, Thomas?
Rangers wouldn't be able to fit him under the cap without some serious maneuvering. Not even just this year (which would be basically impossible with the Redden buyout) but with the cap going down with a ton of players to sign this offseason, they'd probably have to cut Gaborik loose.

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01-27-2013, 08:58 AM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonator View Post
And thus you will not get either...I have said over and over again, Couts straight up for Subs is more then fair....both sides over value their own players and undervalue other teams....I would think if you took a poll, that non hab and non flyer fans, that most would agree a one for one swap between couts and subs would be just.....

We are offering elite for elite.....and both Schenns is to much...you would have to bring something else to the table.....
Couts for Subban straight up is more than fair, one of the only deals getting thrown around that I would be happy with, as it is, like you say, elite for elite. (I think elite is generous for both players right now but both look like they will be top 50 NHLers in the next 3-5 years)

I have no interest in having a lesser player as the centerpiece and adding to make the trade even. ie)Voracek+, Simmonds+, Read+, even B. Schenn +...for whatever reason Habs fans think the Schenn Bros is a good or better deal than Couts straight up, I'll take the better player and less filler.

Long story short: Couts for Subban - more than fair for this Habs fan.

But he's not getting traded.

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Old
01-27-2013, 08:59 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Rangers wouldn't be able to fit him under the cap without some serious maneuvering. Not even just this year (which would be basically impossible with the Redden buyout) but with the cap going down with a ton of players to sign this offseason, they'd probably have to cut Gaborik loose.
Yeah, I agree. Do you think I'm anywhere close on value? I'm honestly not sure if it's too hot, too cold, or just right.

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01-27-2013, 08:59 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Couts for Subban straight up is more than fair, one of the only deals getting thrown around that I would be happy with, as it is, like you say, elite for elite. (I think elite is generous for both players right now but both look like they will be top 50 NHLers in the next 3-5 years)

I have no interest in having a lesser player as the centerpiece and adding to make the trade even. ie)Voracek+, Simmonds+, Read+, even B. Schenn +...for whatever reason Habs fans think the Schenn Bros is a good or better deal than Couts straight up, I'll take the better player and less filler.

Long story short: Couts for Subban - more than fair for this Habs fan.

But he's not getting traded.
Montreal gets fleeced on that one.

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:02 AM
  #287
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Is Subban a UFA in July?

#FutureLeaf

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:02 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by captain9nyr View Post
Yeah, I agree. Do you think I'm anywhere close on value? I'm honestly not sure if it's too hot, too cold, or just right.
I dunno, it really depends on what Subban's contract demands are.. which I'll admit to not being up to date with.

I could see the Habs going for a trade around Del Zotto though. Not sure what the Rangers would need to add, probably something like Thomas or a high pick (1st/2nd). Especially if its a long term deal at a relatively decent cap hit (i.e. not >$5M)

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01-27-2013, 09:02 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Is Subban a UFA in July?

#FutureLeaf
Subban is years away from unrestricted free agency.

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01-27-2013, 09:03 AM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Is Subban a UFA in July?

#FutureLeaf
Nope, if he was to sit out every year, I believe he wouldn't be a UFA til he is 27

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01-27-2013, 09:04 AM
  #291
Frank Drebin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunk Larry Murphy View Post
I don't understand how with the history the Canidiens have, thier GM can be this stupid.
MB hasn't shown anything in his short tenure for anyone to say he's stupid. In fact I feel very comfortable with him running the team, especially with what is going on right now in the PK negotiations. Hurt feelings over contract negotiations go away once the cheques start rolling in again.

Feel free to make comments after some sort of deal has been made, but right now all we know is that there is distance between the two sides.

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01-27-2013, 09:14 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Bridging contracts have become archaic because teams realize they have an excellent opportunity to buy themselves cap space. Kesler is worth more than $5M, Benn is likely to be and Myers may be underpaid soon enough. Regardless, all three are locked in "cap beneficial deals." With how Hab management has treated PK. What motivation does he have to not later seek maximum value?



Good for Carey, he opted for a shorter term. Why? Not to do management any favors. He did so to strengthen his own bargaining position. Upon the time of his renewal, Price had little to no leverage in regards to status - he was essentially a "backup." By accepting a lesser deal, Price erased the "playoff hero" image from people's minds, reclaimed his throne and demanded $6.5M as a result. He held all the leverage to "cash in" and did so.

Suffice it to say, Montreal's own philosophy bit them in the ass.

Why does this not apply to Subban? He has nothing else to prove, and has chosen to maximize his worth now in lieu of tempting fate. Unlike Price, Subban did not struggle but flourished in the #1 role. His leverage is considerably higher.
Ok but why aren't teams buying more ufa years when giving these contracts out, I mean all these contracts given to young guys only eat 1 or 2 ufa years, why aren't teams signing them to 8 year deals. I mean if you guys are saying all these players are key players, and you have to treat them right, and it seems they are the ones wanting the long term deals, if I'm a GM its either short term or max deal for my core players. But it seems like all these players are getting the best of the both, long term deals at big money, but allows them to walk as UFA at 27-28 if they want.

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01-27-2013, 09:18 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
MB hasn't shown anything in his short tenure for anyone to say he's stupid. In fact I feel very comfortable with him running the team, especially with what is going on right now in the PK negotiations. Hurt feelings over contract negotiations go away once the cheques start rolling in again.

Feel free to make comments after some sort of deal has been made, but right now all we know is that there is distance between the two sides.
This I agree 100%.

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01-27-2013, 09:26 AM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
Wouldn't take Couturier for Subban unless the Flyers added a decent piece. Or Schenn bros for Subban.
If the Habs insist on giving Subban a bridge contract, why would they trade for a guy who signed a 5 year, $18 mil deal after his ELC?

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01-27-2013, 09:29 AM
  #295
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I pray we dont trade couturier for him.

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01-27-2013, 09:35 AM
  #296
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I pray we dont trade couturier for him.
We are praying the same thing. We also pray that the Habs do not trade PK Subban.

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01-27-2013, 09:38 AM
  #297
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Mark my words Subban will never be trade to a eastern rivals. If he is traded it will be in the western conference. I see something like: Filpula and 2nd for Subban and 5th.
Habs have no interest in Filpula for Subban. Habs are looking for a franchise player and a defenseman to replace him.

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01-27-2013, 09:44 AM
  #298
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Slats would never trade for Subban because he wouldn't offer him more than MDZ because of how he deals with 2nd contracts, we'd be in the same position Habs are in.

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01-27-2013, 09:44 AM
  #299
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local paper says Wpg is having discussions for him. no idea what we'd be offering

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01-27-2013, 09:52 AM
  #300
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local paper says Wpg is having discussions for him. no idea what we'd be offering
If Evander Kane wasn't such a jackoff I'd say him straight up would work for me but I don't care for Kane one bit.

You'd have to start with Trouba and Schiefele and add a pick probably.

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