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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-27-2013, 10:13 AM
  #326
HomaridII
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
From the Winnipeg Sun, top of the far right column...
Very very interesting.

Who do we want from Winnipeg?

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01-27-2013, 10:14 AM
  #327
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Very very interesting.

Who do we want from Winnipeg?
I HOPE there is no talks unless Winnipeg's offer starts with Jacob Trouba.

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01-27-2013, 10:20 AM
  #328
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I HOPE there is no talks unless Winnipeg's offer starts with Jacob Trouba.
Bogosian + Burmistrov.

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01-27-2013, 10:21 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Is Bergevin prepared to become the most hated man in Quebec?

I can not see this ending up very well for his popularity if he trades subban, barring miraculous returns instead. Even for those that think Subban is worth only 2 years and 3 millions per, nobody wants to see him go. Ok, I'll take that back, the vast majority do not want him traded.

So does Bergevin have the confidence, security and most importantly the balls to trade off the most popular habs asset we've had in decades? I will say no.

My predictions: Meehan will request a trade for his client. Media frenzy will follow and Bergevin is going to soften up his stance and make a legitimate offer that will be accepted.
The only reason I think Bergevin won't trade PK is Molson.
The man just bought the Habs for half a billion dollars a couple years back. In his first year, Habs were one of the most boring team to watch, to the point where people didn't even show up at the Bell Center to come watch the game (even if they had tickets for it, Sell out crowds with empty seats). There was controversy around the coach. We finished dead last in the East.
Hoping for a bounce back year, the whole administration is changed, but unfortunately, lockout happens.
After more than 100 days, hockey is finally back, and now Molson is focused on getting his team on the right track, turning us into an entertaining and winning team.
He also has a 180degree view of team and media. He lets his coach go on shows like AC, let's Bergevin speak to the media, creates a behind the scene show about how things work..

I don't think Molson is the type to get involved in hockey decisions. IMO he does his things and let's Bergevin do his. But I believe he would have to put his foot down with PK. I seriously doubt Molson would let Bergevin trade their most marketable and charismatic player.
I mean, if we didn't have PK last year, half the Bell Center would have been empty, and I believe Molson knows this.
I also think this is why Begevin mentioned twice that PK won't be traded. It makes no sense that it comes from him if the $ are true. If he thinks PK is worth so little, then I don't see why you'd be so firm as to not trade him.

Trading PK would not only be a bad hockey move, but a seriously bad business one too, and I don't think Molson will make that mistake.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:21 AM
  #330
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Bogosian + Burmistrov.
Subban for Bogosian + Burmistrov? I'd rather just keep Subban but if we are going to get him to hate us...

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01-27-2013, 10:21 AM
  #331
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Bogosian + Burmistrov.

I'd gladly refuse that offer due to a lack of Jacob Trouba.

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01-27-2013, 10:21 AM
  #332
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I'm not in the "sign Subban at all cost" crew, but...

Not only is the guy worth much more than guys like Kulikov and MDZ (which are comparables, according to MB's offer), but the team only has one player due for a substantial raise (read, 75+%) next season, and it's David Desharnais, doesn't make that much money to begin with.

So offering him, say, 2 years, 4.1 PER, won't prevent the team from signing anybody next season.
DD won't get a big raise if he doesn't step up his play, and he might have lost his biggest helper in MaxPac. So, we'll see.

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01-27-2013, 10:22 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Very very interesting.

Who do we want from Winnipeg?
I think no matter what it would be a three quarters for a dollar type deal. I don't know, Bogosian & Scheifele? Not stunning, but I think that's the kind of return we're looking at if Bergevin has painted himself into a corner.

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01-27-2013, 10:23 AM
  #334
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My apologies if this was already posted (I haven't gone through the 7 Subban threads that have been created since late yesterday afternoon )

Habs-are-playing-a-dangerous-game-with-PK Subban/

Very good article for those who have the time to read it.

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01-27-2013, 10:25 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Bergevins mistake here was drawing a line in the sand. If it works great, but if PK holds firm a well? You've basically forced yourself to either break and show weakness (which this early in his tenure would be a disaster for future negotiations), or trade your star D. Either way, relationships have been damaged.
As I have said many times, Bergevin has painted himself into a corner like the moron that he is.

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01-27-2013, 10:26 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
My apologies if this was already posted (I haven't gone through the 7 Subban threads that have been created since late yesterday afternoon )

Habs-are-playing-a-dangerous-game-with-PK Subban/

Very good article for those who have the time to read it.
Looks like it was posted on the previous page.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:28 AM
  #337
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DD won't get a big raise if he doesn't step up his play, and he might have lost his biggest helper in MaxPac. So, we'll see.
Again, by my parameters (+75%), a "big raise" would be 1.4M (or +).

And I hardly see him not get that money unless he posts a 15 points season.

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01-27-2013, 10:28 AM
  #338
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I'd gladly refuse that offer due to a lack of Jacob Trouba.
We need a replacement for Subban now, not in 2 years, unless the plan is to tank, at which point we'd be aiming for Jones anyway.

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01-27-2013, 10:30 AM
  #339
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I think no matter what it would be a three quarters for a dollar type deal. I don't know, Bogosian & Scheifele? Not stunning, but I think that's the kind of return we're looking at if Bergevin has painted himself into a corner.
Again, if we could be getting Jacob Trouba (+) for Subban, I'd end up being quite happy, depending on the plus.

I would not even make a trade with Winnipeg is Trouba isn't going this way.

Besides, Bergevin has absolutely no obligation whatsoever to trade Subban...

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01-27-2013, 10:30 AM
  #340
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We need a replacement for Subban now, not in 2 years, unless the plan is to tank, at which point we'd be aiming for Jones anyway.
I keep seeing all these trade suggestions, and I have to admit, they almost all leave us with giant gaps on D.

There are really no trades that make sense for the Habs, except for trade that other teams wouldn't accept. (Pietrangelo type player coming in return)

Players that fill all the roles Subban does, and do them well, are few and far between.

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01-27-2013, 10:31 AM
  #341
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Again, if we could be getting Jacob Trouba (+) for Subban, I'd end up being quite happy, depending on the plus.

I would not even make a trade with Winnipeg is Trouba isn't going this way.

Besides, Bergevin has absolutely no obligation whatsoever to trade Subban...
I'd like Dumba. First Filipino-descent hockey player

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:32 AM
  #342
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We need a replacement for Subban now, not in 2 years, unless the plan is to tank, at which point we'd be aiming for Jones anyway.
The point isn't to tank.

The point is to get an offer we cannot refuse, and in Winnipeg's case, every offer not including Jacob Trouba is easy to refuse.

Besides, if we're absolutely getting a "current asset", THEN, we end up trading three quarters for one dollar.

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01-27-2013, 10:32 AM
  #343
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The only reason I think Bergevin won't trade PK is Molson.
The man just bought the Habs for half a billion dollars a couple years back. In his first year, Habs were one of the most boring team to watch, to the point where people didn't even show up at the Bell Center to come watch the game (even if they had tickets for it, Sell out crowds with empty seats). There was controversy around the coach. We finished dead last in the East.
Hoping for a bounce back year, the whole administration is changed, but unfortunately, lockout happens.
After more than 100 days, hockey is finally back, and now Molson is focused on getting his team on the right track, turning us into an entertaining and winning team.
He also has a 180degree view of team and media. He lets his coach go on shows like AC, let's Bergevin speak to the media, creates a behind the scene show about how things work..

I don't think Molson is the type to get involved in hockey decisions. IMO he does his things and let's Bergevin do his. But I believe he would have to put his foot down with PK. I seriously doubt Molson would let Bergevin trade their most marketable and charismatic player.
I mean, if we didn't have PK last year, half the Bell Center would have been empty, and I believe Molson knows this.
I also think this is why Begevin mentioned twice that PK won't be traded. It makes no sense that it comes from him if the $ are true. If he thinks PK is worth so little, then I don't see why you'd be so firm as to not trade him.

Trading PK would not only be a bad hockey move, but a seriously bad business one too, and I don't think Molson will make that mistake.
Agree. This is what I meant in more words by Bergevin lacking the security to trade Subban. It's a business and no owner would want there most marketable top young player gone. It makes zero logic.

This is Bergevin's mistake in the doing and he's going to have to figure a way to get himself out of it.

I'm almost positive that PK's agent interprets it this way too and is advising PK just to hold patience and not accept a short term because he knows that MB will have to give-in and up his offers (especially if they stage a trade request).

Ya sure technically we can play real hard ball with PK and have him sit the year - but once we go into a mini losing streak and the crowds start chanting "PK PK Pk'' a deal will get done.

The whole thing I find frightening about this situation is the fact that we have a supposedly qualified GM that made this mess on his own doing.

The only strategy he can save face on at this point if this if he goes with the ''this is just a lesson on grounding PK into being a more humble person'' by making him reflect on his attitude while watching games on TV in Toronto.

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01-27-2013, 10:33 AM
  #344
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Trouba + Kane for Subban

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01-27-2013, 10:33 AM
  #345
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Again, if we could be getting Jacob Trouba (+) for Subban, I'd end up being quite happy, depending on the plus.

I would not even make a trade with Winnipeg is Trouba isn't going this way.

Besides, Bergevin has absolutely no obligation whatsoever to trade Subban...
Let's Subban accepts an offer sheet from Philly, and Bergevin refuses to match... would you rather have, for example, Bogo + Scheifele/Burmi, Smith + Ouellet or Philly's top 3 picks this year? There's no good answer, but I think I'd take a package of players rather than picks.

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01-27-2013, 10:34 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
My apologies if this was already posted (I haven't gone through the 7 Subban threads that have been created since late yesterday afternoon )

Habs-are-playing-a-dangerous-game-with-PK Subban/

Very good article for those who have the time to read it.
Completely agree with this.

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01-27-2013, 10:34 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I'd like Dumba. First Filipino-descent hockey player
Dumba doesn't play for Winnipeg, and if we have to get a player for Subban, I'd rather like that player to be able to skate backwards.

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01-27-2013, 10:34 AM
  #348
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Let's Subban accepts an offer sheet from Philly, and Bergevin refuses to match... would you rather have, for example, Bogo + Scheifele/Burmi, Smith + Ouellet or Philly's top 3 picks this year? There's no good answer, but I think I'd take a package of players rather than picks.
Why would he refuse to match?

Besides, do Philly really have any kind of cap room?

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01-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #349
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The only reason I think Bergevin won't trade PK is Molson.
The man just bought the Habs for half a billion dollars a couple years back. In his first year, Habs were one of the most boring team to watch, to the point where people didn't even show up at the Bell Center to come watch the game (even if they had tickets for it, Sell out crowds with empty seats). There was controversy around the coach. We finished dead last in the East.
Hoping for a bounce back year, the whole administration is changed, but unfortunately, lockout happens.
After more than 100 days, hockey is finally back, and now Molson is focused on getting his team on the right track, turning us into an entertaining and winning team.
He also has a 180degree view of team and media. He lets his coach go on shows like AC, let's Bergevin speak to the media, creates a behind the scene show about how things work..

I don't think Molson is the type to get involved in hockey decisions. IMO he does his things and let's Bergevin do his. But I believe he would have to put his foot down with PK. I seriously doubt Molson would let Bergevin trade their most marketable and charismatic player.
I mean, if we didn't have PK last year, half the Bell Center would have been empty, and I believe Molson knows this.
I also think this is why Begevin mentioned twice that PK won't be traded. It makes no sense that it comes from him if the $ are true. If he thinks PK is worth so little, then I don't see why you'd be so firm as to not trade him.

Trading PK would not only be a bad hockey move, but a seriously bad business one too, and I don't think Molson will make that mistake.
Molson handled the interview process personally, I think he had to know what Bergevin's plan was regarding Subban.

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01-27-2013, 10:36 AM
  #350
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As I have said many times, Bergevin has painted himself into a corner like the moron that he is.
My biggest issue is that this seems to be more about principle/policy and ego as opposed to a real negotiation.

We keep hearing crap like, oh he can't ''break'', he's gonna lose credibility.
What credibility? He's a rookie freaking GM, he has none.
Also, playing a game of chicken with your young star player by lowballing him is supposed to give him a good reputation? He is making himself look like a moron. Not only that, but also a poor evaluator and negotiator.
I mean, Meehan has over 100 clients. Say one becomes a free agent, Bergevin comes calling, Meehan might just tell him to GTFO unless he wants to seriously overpay.
I mean, 2.2M for this year??? 200K more than Emelin, really?? In what world does this make sense.

Even for the people that side with Bergevin on this are left wondering wtf is going on. If PK asked for Doughty cash, everybody could say this kid was being greedy and selfish, but they can all agree that in a few years he could actually be worth that much, because they see the potential. They just refuse to give so much cash now, and I agree (if he actually demanded Doughty cash, which he hasn't).
But 2.2M? That is just nonsense.

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