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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-27-2013, 10:36 AM
  #351
Roulin
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Why would he refuse to match?
Well, yeah, I think that would be the best move by a mile. But Bergevin clearly has a different opinion of Subban's value than most of us.

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01-27-2013, 10:37 AM
  #352
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At least in the case of Bogosian he is NHL ready. He isn't dynamic offensively like PK but he is adequate. Burmistrov has a lot of talent and may end up an elusive second line scoring threat.

I don't want to trade Subban but that's who I would target if we were trying to make a deal. Plus, Timmins loved Bogosian in the '08 draft.

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01-27-2013, 10:38 AM
  #353
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Agree. This is what I meant in more words by Bergevin lacking the security to trade Subban. It's a business and no owner would want there most marketable top young player gone. It makes zero logic.

This is Bergevin's mistake in the doing and he's going to have to figure a way to get himself out of it.

I'm almost positive that PK's agent interprets it this way too and is advising PK just to hold patience and not accept a short term because he knows that MB will have to give-in and up his offers (especially if they stage a trade request).

Ya sure technically we can play real hard ball with PK and have him sit the year - but once we go into a mini losing streak and the crowds start chanting "PK PK Pk'' a deal will get done.

The whole thing I find frightening about this situation is the fact that we have a supposedly qualified GM that made this mess on his own doing.

The only strategy he can save face on at this point if this is just a lesson on grounding PK into being a more humble person in the lockeroom by making him reflect on his attitude while watching games on TV in Toronto.
This should have been Bergevin's easiest move and he's found a way to **** it all up. I can only shake my head at this.

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01-27-2013, 10:38 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Trouba + Kane for Subban
Winnipeg isn't doing this, fair or not, especially the way Kane has played so far this season. At best we can get Trouba and something like Burmistrov.

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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
At least in the case of Bogosian he is NHL ready. He isn't dynamic offensively like PK but he is adequate. Burmistrov has a lot of talent and may end up an elusive second line scoring threat.

I don't want to trade Subban but that's who I would target if we were trying to make a deal. Plus, Timmins loved Bogosian in the '08 draft.
I think Bogosian is being underrated a bit here. Trouba has more hype right now because he's unproven therefore can't be picked apart, had a great WJC and throws flashy hits, but Bogosian has been slowly turning into a very good and well rounded defenseman. Of course he's not Subban good.

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01-27-2013, 10:38 AM
  #355
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Molson handled the interview process personally, I think he had to know what Bergevin's plan was regarding Subban.
Sure, his plan was to sign him. Doesn't mean anything.
He had never spoken to PK once. If he was asked what he was worth, he probably said he would have to get more info on the kid. He apparently doesn't know him very well.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:39 AM
  #356
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I don't know why during the interview process for Coach and GM they weren't asked to give their input on the specific players on the team.

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01-27-2013, 10:40 AM
  #357
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I HOPE there is no talks unless Winnipeg's offer starts with Jacob Trouba.

This.

If trade become reality, then there are much better trading partners than Jets.

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01-27-2013, 10:43 AM
  #358
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This.

If trade become reality, then there are much better trading partners than Jets.
The Jets proposals so far are better than trading Subban for Couturier, that's for sure.

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01-27-2013, 10:43 AM
  #359
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I like the kid's energy but his potential is what every one is betting on?He's not karlson he's not going to put 80 plus pts as a defenceman or is he.Is he a cancer in the dressing room?What is his trade value?A top line player and a high draft pick we do not know.And as long as canadiens are playing well molson need not worry at the moment

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01-27-2013, 10:43 AM
  #360
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Winnipeg isn't doing this, fair or not, especially the way Kane has played so far this season. At best we can get Trouba and something like Burmistrov.



I think Bogosian is being underrated a bit here. Trouba has more hype right now because he's unproven therefore can't be picked apart, had a great WJC and throws flashy hits, but Bogosian has been slowly turning into a very good and well rounded defenseman. Of course he's not Subban good.
Trouba+Kane for Subban+Desharnais. Pls.

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01-27-2013, 10:45 AM
  #361
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I think Bogosian is being underrated a bit here. Trouba has more hype right now because he's unproven therefore can't be picked apart, had a great WJC and throws flashy hits, but Bogosian has been slowly turning into a very good and well rounded defenseman. Of course he's not Subban good.
The thing with Trouba is that, if he doesn't pan out like he could, or like he should, he's still a big, very quick and physical D-Men with a great shot. If he develops like he should, well, give him all I said before, with average stickhandling, above average vision and above average hockey IQ.

I mean, WHAT'S not to like...?!

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01-27-2013, 10:46 AM
  #362
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Again, if we could be getting Jacob Trouba (+) for Subban, I'd end up being quite happy, depending on the plus.

I would not even make a trade with Winnipeg is Trouba isn't going this way.

Besides, Bergevin has absolutely no obligation whatsoever to trade Subban...
Unless PK asks for a trade. Letting him on the sideline depreciates his value, and also, how can a GM valuate a player so low, and then ask for a huge return?

And if we did get Trouba, who stepped in here, eventually became our #1 for two years, playing really well in all situations versus top opponents, why would anybody think we wouldn't be exactly where we are today?

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01-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #363
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At least in the case of Bogosian he is NHL ready. He isn't dynamic offensively like PK but he is adequate. Burmistrov has a lot of talent and may end up an elusive second line scoring threat.

I don't want to trade Subban but that's who I would target if we were trying to make a deal. Plus, Timmins loved Bogosian in the '08 draft.
I'd rather go for Trouba. Sure he isn't as proven, but the ceiling is just that much higher IMO as well.

One way or another if Subban goes, we need to find a stud D-man to replace him. Are we really going to be in a position to target Seth Jones this season? I highly doubt it to be perfectly honest. We'll probably end up with a pick in the 10-16 range.

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01-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #364
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The Jets proposals so far are better than trading Subban for Couturier, that's for sure.
Actually, Subban for Couturier is better than Subban for Trouba alone.

But Trouba probably comes with a plus, so...

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01-27-2013, 10:48 AM
  #365
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Actually, Subban for Couturier is better than Subban for Trouba alone.

But Trouba probably comes with a plus, so...
Well, this is assuming Trouba comes with more than Couturier, which is what I'd expect. Especially as the Jets actually have decent prospects, and the Flyers have nothing after Couturier and Schenn.

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I'd rather go for Trouba. Sure he isn't as proven, but the ceiling is just that much higher IMO as well.
At one point, Bogosian was considered a better prospect than Pietranglo and Karlsson. Going into the 2008 draft, Luke Schenn was ranked higher by the Central Scouting Bureau than every other defender in that draft besides Doughty. Potential is a funny thing.

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01-27-2013, 10:49 AM
  #366
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From the Winnipeg Sun, top of the far right column...
No offense meant to you, but the byline is Bruce "Malkin to the Kings" Garrioch.

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01-27-2013, 10:50 AM
  #367
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I HOPE there is no talks unless Winnipeg's offer starts with Jacob Trouba.
gotta be. <3 trouba

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01-27-2013, 10:51 AM
  #368
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Unless PK asks for a trade. Letting him on the sideline depreciates his value, and also, how can a GM valuate a player so low, and then ask for a huge return?
Who cares?
They aren't getting anything from Subban at the moment.

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01-27-2013, 10:52 AM
  #369
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From the Winnipeg Sun, top of the far right column...
So PK wants 5 years /5.5. Habs offer 5M two years. They are 3 million appart per year. Old news. PK's over-evaluating his worth and MB lowballing him based on other offers just accepted by young Ds.

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01-27-2013, 10:54 AM
  #370
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Who cares?
They aren't getting anything from Subban at the moment.
I agree. Thats the price for sitting out waiting for the big long-term contact management is not interested in right now.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #371
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Is Bergevin prepared to become the most hated man in Quebec?

I can not see this ending up very well for his popularity if he trades subban, barring miraculous returns instead. Even for those that think Subban is worth only 2 years and 3 millions per, nobody wants to see him go. Ok, I'll take that back, the vast majority do not want him traded.

So does Bergevin have the confidence, security and most importantly the balls to trade off the most popular habs asset we've had in decades? I will say no.

My predictions: Meehan will request a trade for his client. Media frenzy will follow and Bergevin is going to soften up his stance and make a legitimate offer that will be accepted.
Not going to happen. Why?

Look no further than the smear campaign that is currently going on with RDS and specifically L'Antichambre. Almost all of them are absolutely hating on Subban and have absolute rager's for Bergevin. The media is prepping the public for Subban's departure, trying to demonize him and trying to prop up Bergevin in the process. It's working too. Bergevin is a fresh face, so he currently has the benefit of the doubt from the majority of people. The other factor is he is francophone, so whatever he does right now is going to get praised by the franco-media.

This wouldn't be happening under the Bob Gainey regime, one I think Bob would have signed PK. Two, Bob would have never let the media smear PK Subban signed or not the way they currently are. Three, the media would be smearing Gainey.

I'm not even a fan of Gainey, as a matter of fact I hated him. I do think he would have handled the PK Subban situation much better though. He wouldn't be flexing the way Bergevin is.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #372
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I agree. Thats the price for sitting out waiting for the big long-term contact management is not interested in right now.
I wish they would edit the title.

It's not TERM it's money.

Subban deserved the 4 mill range based on comparable players.

Bergevin is offering Subban 3rd liner money.

Subban has already said he'll accept a 2 year deal if the money is reasonable.

The reported offer is so far away from being reasonable it's downright sickening.

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01-27-2013, 10:57 AM
  #373
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So PK wants 5 years /5.5. Habs offer 5M two years. They are 3 million appart per year. Old news. PK's over-evaluating his worth and MB lowballing him based on other offers just accepted by young Ds.
If this true, then Subban-camp and Canadiens are both to blame this current situation. Both sides must move on their fox holes and reach agreement.

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01-27-2013, 11:01 AM
  #374
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No offense meant to you, but the byline is Bruce "Malkin to the Kings" Garrioch.
Yeah, not the most legitimate reporter, to say the least, you're right.

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01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #375
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Who cares?
They aren't getting anything from Subban at the moment.
What do you mean who cares???
Okay, just let him sit forever and ever, until he caves, who cares...

Smart business I tell you.

If you don't want to sign him, trade him, now, not after the season, not after a year, now.
If you don't want to trade him, then actually negotiate a freaking deal. 2.2M for this year is not even a start.

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