HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Race to the Bottom - Rebuild Thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-27-2013, 10:30 AM
  #176
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
I think it's a given that Komisarek will be bought out. That's $4.5 million added to the pot. Though realistically, I think Lupul's contract is going to really prevent us from making a splash.
Even if Komi is bought out, that puts us at 21.6m cap with 11 players to be signed.

That's what 2m per player?

Playing min sal is what?

All I'm trying to say is, IDT if we have a "ton" of cap space. "Ton" for me would have been the 70m + cap as what would have been next year.

We are in a good spot, yes, but thats as far as i would term it.

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:42 AM
  #177
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Even if Komi is bought out, that puts us at 21.6m cap with 11 players to be signed.

That's what 2m per player?

Playing min sal is what?

All I'm trying to say is, IDT if we have a "ton" of cap space. "Ton" for me would have been the 70m + cap as what would have been next year.

We are in a good spot, yes, but thats as far as i would term it.
Relative to other teams around the league, I think we are in a good spot.

See, anything is possible!!!
Code:
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($11.000m) / Corey Perry ($11.000m) 
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m) 
David Clarkson ($3.364m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Matt Frattin ($0.925m) 
Colton Orr ($0.650m) / David Steckel ($0.700m) / Mike Brown ($0.737m) 
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($1.750m) 
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) 
Korbinian Holzer ($0.700m) / Mark Fraser ($0.700m) 
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m) 
Ben Scrivens ($0.613m) 
BUYOUTS
Darcy Tucker ($1.000m) / Colby Armstrong ($1.000m) 
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,600,000; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster):- $0

Jerkini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:43 AM
  #178
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbyfan View Post
I'm going to say the same thing here I've been saying to my friends for some time, and it may be unpopular:
We simply can't look at this situation as not having made the playoffs since '03-04 or the cup since 1967. Put all that crap aside. One of my buddies was crying in his beer the other night that he just wants to make the playoffs, get in there, do SOMETHING. I totally disagree.
Am I pissed we haven't made the playoffs in so long? Of course. All I care about is building the proper foundation to be a contender year after year, and make sustained playoff runs.
We have a good foundation to build on I think. There's no need to 'tear anything down', what the hell are you tearing down? There are some good young pieces. People need to change their expectations though for this team for crying out loud.

They're going to have some good games, and a lot of bad ones. But we are not, I repeat NOT a team that's going to do a bloody thing if we happen to squeak into the postseason. If we do - great. But I don't want to sacrifice any young talent to make into that coveted 8th spot. Be patient and actually build. Anyone that believes that we're a Luongo away from making a dent in the playoffs is simply dreaming.

My two cents.
Not sure how you don't see what could be shipped out one way or the other.

Mac
Komi
Liles
Steckle
Orr
Franson

Maybe Grabo or Bozak, if Kadri continues to blossom.

Thats 7 names off a 21 man roster, how would moving 1/3 of your team out not be considered "blowing it up"

Is Kessel,Lups,Dion a 3 some that a contender builds around, for me, i have grave doubts about that.

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #179
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 34,946
vCash: 500
i have no problem building the team with kessel lupul and phaneuf
but we need alot more
for example do you like this?

LUPUL GETZLAF KESSEL
WEBER PHANEUF

not saying we'd get them but i think you get the idea
add 2 or 3 allstars to what we've got

p.l.f. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #180
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
Relative to other teams around the league, I think we are in a good spot.

See, anything is possible!!!
Code:
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($11.000m) / Corey Perry ($11.000m) 
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m) 
David Clarkson ($3.364m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Matt Frattin ($0.925m) 
Colton Orr ($0.650m) / David Steckel ($0.700m) / Mike Brown ($0.737m) 
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($1.750m) 
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) 
Korbinian Holzer ($0.700m) / Mark Fraser ($0.700m) 
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m) 
Ben Scrivens ($0.613m) 
BUYOUTS
Darcy Tucker ($1.000m) / Colby Armstrong ($1.000m) 
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,600,000; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster):- $0
Relative to other teams around the league, I think we are in a good spot.

Now that type of wording i can back.

To say we have a "ton", puts it on a completely different level.

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:51 AM
  #181
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
i have no problem building the team with kessel lupul and phaneuf
but we need alot more
for example do you like this?

LUPUL GETZLAF KESSEL
WEBER PHANEUF

not saying we'd get them but i think you get the idea
Well if we are going to go into the what IF fantasy world, my top 6 would look like


JVR-Getz-Perry

Lups-Kadri-Kessel.

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:57 AM
  #182
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,681
vCash: 500
We're blowing it up while not even trying to blow it up...

We're well on our way to a top 5 pick, don't worry fans.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:57 AM
  #183
Parkdale
Registered User
 
Parkdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
In 8 years Kova will be 37 years old and a new CBA might be on the line and guess what will happen if a crap ton of these organizations have backed themselves into a world of sht, thanks to those contracts?

You don't think the majority of owners are going to have the power to correct this?

Seeing how they could be the majority in 8 years?

Is a 6.6m cap hit going to hurt all that much in 8 years, given cap inflation?
It will be interesting. I expect a lobby for a "get out of jail card" from those owners who are royally screwed by having the "cap recapture" contracts....but there will be many more against it. Unless Toronto gets suckered in to one of these contracts (think Luongo), I would wish no relief to be forthcoming

Regarding inflation in the cap hit, this is often wheeled out by certain fans (think Canuck fans wanting to get rid of Luongo) as to why this should not be so much of a problem. No one can predict the future economics, but ask your typical well run company what they think of defined benefit pension plans.

Parkdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #184
p.l.f.
mvp
 
p.l.f.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 34,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Well if we are going to go into the what IF fantasy world, my top 6 would look like


JVR-Getz-Perry

Lups-Kadri-Kessel.
that would be nice

perhaps a tad too much salary

p.l.f. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #185
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
We're blowing it up while not even trying to blow it up...

We're well on our way to a top 5 pick, don't worry fans.
That's the thing, people somehow think we aren't rebuilding right now. Yes we are.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:10 AM
  #186
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
That's the thing, people somehow think we aren't rebuilding right now. Yes we are.
Exactly.

You think it's a coincidence that:
-We don't trade for Lou, go with Reims/Scrivens
-Allow Kostka to have an opportunity. He could REALLY suck, we don't care.
-Not get rid of Komi. Why not pay him? We suck anyways.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:13 AM
  #187
DaveT83*
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
That's the thing, people somehow think we aren't rebuilding right now. Yes we are.
In other words the second Burke was fired - were rebuilding - and its time to be patient.

5 Weeks ago you were probably advocating we trade Kadri+1st for Luongo and make a run for the cup!!!

DaveT83* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:15 AM
  #188
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
In other words the second Burke was fired - were rebuilding - and its time to be patient.

5 Weeks ago you were probably advocating we trade Kadri+1st for Luongo and make a run for the cup!!!
That'd be ridiculous though

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:18 AM
  #189
FakeKidPoker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Canucks drafted the Sedins in 99 and didn't become contenders until 2011(first Presidents win).

Thats 12 years.
Um completely different there.

Not to mention they had a good upcoming team with future Superstar Markus Naslund... they were a contender in the early 2000s.

But as per Burke they didn't get a goalie.

FakeKidPoker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:23 AM
  #190
MakeTheIronSing
Registered User
 
MakeTheIronSing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,178
vCash: 500
Gotta go bottom 4 I think.

The leafs cannot miss another chance at an elite C.

Just looking at Galchenyuk play makes me very envious.

MakeTheIronSing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:25 AM
  #191
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
Gotta go bottom 4 I think.

The leafs cannot miss another chance at an elite C.

Just looking at Galchenyuk play makes me very envious.
He's gonna be a hell of a player. We missed on a good one, but at least it wasn't by choice

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:25 AM
  #192
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,144
vCash: 500
Top 6 deficiencies, said it last year, said it this spring/summer and fall.

The core of this team is the same as it has been the past 4 years, to somehow to expect a different result is like a fly hitting the window trying to get out. Interesting but the fly usually doesn't, and you find a dead corpse in the day after.

It's the ultimate circle jerk- Kessel, Phaneuf, Grabo, Lupul, Kule, are not getting this team to the playoffs, This is your core nucleus, as long as they are, this team is destined for a top 5-10 draft pick.

But, I was challenged on this many times by the blind faithful, which often caused me to reply, yeah we are so good, why are we so bad year in year out. 5 years and counting, when does the fly escape?

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:25 AM
  #193
Erdinger
Registered User
 
Erdinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
That'd be ridiculous though
I don't even think Kadri for Luongo and a 1st from Vancouver would have been a good trade. Fortunately despite TSN and Sportsnet pushing this Luongo to the Leafs stuff it looks like Nonis isn't going to be stupid and bite on it.

Erdinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:26 AM
  #194
LEAFSIN4
Registered User
 
LEAFSIN4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iArts View Post
I'm with you.

We won't be able to compete as long as we're not willing to pay some serious cash for superstars.
"But they don't serve this much", "but it's immoral", blah blah blah pile of ****. Well you know what, you want that superstar, you better be ready to pay. Because if you're not paying, somebody else will.

I live how mos people here are terrified of overpaying one dollar for a player, while at the same time admiring the Rangers for example. Rags dished out insane amounts of money to get the free agents they got.
The rangers were able to put redden in the minors, something that's not allowed any more. They also ripped the **** out of MTL when dumping gomez. Also, the only player that they signed and that I consider to be a superstar is Gaborik. He didn't get one of those long-term deals either. Brad Richards is a great player, but he's no superstar.

wanna give these guys 10 year contracts? imagine if we gave kaberle a 10 year deal 10 years ago thinking that since he's a top dman and that we should keep him for as long as possible. He would still be playing on our team for 4-5 mil and nobody would want him.

trust me, all these guys signed to long-term deals are going to have negative value in a few years. you guys just dont see it yet because you're too focused on the short term.

Anything longer than a 6-7 year deal is ridiculous unless you're signing a top 5 player... and no Kovalchuk is not a top 5 player.

LEAFSIN4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:30 AM
  #195
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
You do know not all teams can afford to spend to the cap, right.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...41524429,d.dmg
Sorry RR, i don't see anything in that article that says Minny is having money issues.

You don't think Minny could handle spending to a 64m cap, once the PO revs finally start to roll in?

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:32 AM
  #196
darrylsittler27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,109
vCash: 500
We play better and get the same result.

Amazing the effort is there,the team defensive effort is there,the results are the same.Boston is very happy with Hamilton.Thanks MR Burke.The Brass did the right thing.At least we are playing the kids and it is strong draft,I mean Burke isnt shipping the picks to Boston for players we dont need anymore.

darrylsittler27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:35 AM
  #197
LEAFSIN4
Registered User
 
LEAFSIN4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Top 6 deficiencies, said it last year, said it this spring/summer and fall.

The core of this team is the same as it has been the past 4 years, to somehow to expect a different result is like a fly hitting the window trying to get out. Interesting but the fly usually doesn't, and you find a dead corpse in the day after.

It's the ultimate circle jerk- Kessel, Phaneuf, Grabo, Lupul, Kule, are not getting this team to the playoffs, This is your core nucleus, as long as they are, this team is destined for a top 5-10 draft pick.

But, I was challenged on this many times by the blind faithful, which often caused me to reply, yeah we are so good, why are we so bad year in year out. 5 years and counting, when does the fly escape?
Fans saying we need to blow it up are just as bad as fans saying we are fine just the way we are

it is a process, you don't ever stay completely the same nor do you just blow everything up and hope for different results. You put players that you have faith in on the ice while building depth in your organization. You assess what you need and who you can give up while working within the framework of the CBA. There are always opportunities to make moves and improve, all you need is common sense, patience, good judgement, and cap space. For the first time since in the cap world we can finally say we have this... it took 7 years to get to this point, but we're here.

You say the core needs to be changed... I say the core isn't complete and needs to be added to. I say we need more experience. I say this team isn't built yet, and this season is right along the lines of what we should have expected this season. At this point we don't expect different results, we just expect there to be some improvement.

Everyone just loves to come out and say "I told you so" like you made some amazing prediction. The fuc*ing GM pretty much came out and said we don't expect to win this year, it's a long term thing.

LEAFSIN4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:36 AM
  #198
LEAFSIN4
Registered User
 
LEAFSIN4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
Amazing the effort is there,the team defensive effort is there,the results are the same.Boston is very happy with Hamilton.Thanks MR Burke.The Brass did the right thing.At least we are playing the kids and it is strong draft,I mean Burke isnt shipping the picks to Boston for players we dont need anymore.
Toronto's inferiority complex in full display right here

LEAFSIN4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:38 AM
  #199
Wendelstache
Registered User
 
Wendelstache's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,322
vCash: 500
Kessel + Kadri + Phaneuf to Pittsburg for Malkin.

Kulie - Malkin - JVR
Lupul - Grabo - Frattin
Leo - Bozak - McA
Orr - Mclement - Brown

Wendelstache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:40 AM
  #200
cyris
Global Moderator
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,209
vCash: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
We could have attracted a few if we tossed some Ilya Kovalchuk-type contracts around. Unfortunately for all of us, this team and it's fans think we're the Phoenix Coyotes.

You think Brad Richards would turn that much money down?

Ilya Kovalchuk @ $6.6 cap hit? Don't worry guys, we'll pay Grabovski $5.5 instead.
You do realize there are now rules in place to punish those contracts and the devils will now be paying him until his contract ends no matter when he retires?

cyris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.