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Pothier, Varada and Fisher...OH MY!

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Old
12-13-2003, 07:24 PM
  #1
SensGod
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Pothier, Varada and Fisher...OH MY!

After tonights game...

They are all out of commission...Varada...our poo_distuber is gone...Pothier...our true #5 dman is gone...Fisher...our #3 centerman is gone...

We're done like a Thai red lighter...opinions?

I think that at this point we need to get Fish healthy...and Schastlivy playing like he did last year....and for the love of Christ! Get Morrow!

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12-13-2003, 07:28 PM
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If this rant makes sense to you...Cool

If not...it's my drunken ramblings...and please ignore!



God love CC...

oooOOooOOoohh...and half a Bubba!

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12-13-2003, 07:40 PM
  #3
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I missed the game. What happened?

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12-13-2003, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
I missed the game. What happened?
Bergeron injured Varada and Pothier.

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12-13-2003, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
After tonights game...

They are all out of commission...Varada...our poo_distuber is gone...Pothier...our true #5 dman is gone...Fisher...our #3 centerman is gone...

We're done like a Thai red lighter...opinions?

I think that at this point we need to get Fish healthy...and Schastlivy playing like he did last year....and for the love of Christ! Get Morrow!
No way we are giving up Morrow.

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Old
12-14-2003, 02:56 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensfan11
Bergeron injured Varada and Pothier.
You're forgetting what he did on Monday to Volchenkov....

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12-14-2003, 05:09 AM
  #7
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The Sens need to learn when it's going to be 'that kind of game' and play accordingly. Martin's strategy of just playing through the flak has gotten three regulars injured, and Alfie's shrug to the refs in the first was one of the most disappointing gestures I've ever seen from the captain.

If the other team is going to come out with intent to injure, the gloves have to come off, and the sticks up. Period.

Other Dave

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Old
12-14-2003, 07:39 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
The Sens need to learn when it's going to be 'that kind of game' and play accordingly. Martin's strategy of just playing through the flak has gotten three regulars injured, and Alfie's shrug to the refs in the first was one of the most disappointing gestures I've ever seen from the captain.

If the other team is going to come out with intent to injure, the gloves have to come off, and the sticks up. Period.

Other Dave
"Heart, ya gotta have heart........"

Aside from a few players, I'm not seeing much in the way of either heart, fire, attitude or confidence.

Maybe Fish is the answer, if he is, this team is much more fragile than I thought.

Maybe things will pick up in the new year.

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12-14-2003, 07:51 AM
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You know, we've kinda criticised the players for possibly buying into the hype of being picked as the favourites.

Maybe we're just as guilty. Maybe the guys just aren't as good a team as we thought? I certainly felt last year that we were almost invincible - it is anything but at the moment.

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12-14-2003, 09:58 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza
You know, we've kinda criticised the players for possibly buying into the hype of being picked as the favourites.

Maybe we're just as guilty. Maybe the guys just aren't as good a team as we thought? I certainly felt last year that we were almost invincible - it is anything but at the moment.
I have no idea what the heck is going on with the team...it's a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing at this point. One game they are the team they were last year (e.g: Flyers last week)...then the next they look like an expansion team playing their 1st NHL game...

With injuries to players like Fisher, Volchenkov, Pothier and Varada...it's going to get worse before it get's better. We've lost our #1 LW in Varada, and our #5 and #6 dmen...and our 3rd line centerman who brings tonnes of energy to the ice are all down and out.

Then to top everything off...our bloody goalies prefer to lie on the ice instead of trying to stop pucks. Sure Prusek had a few good games, but he stunk up the joint before his little streak.

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Old
12-14-2003, 10:49 AM
  #11
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Things are going from bad to worse for the Sens

From the official Sens website:
Quote:
On Sunday, Jacques Martin provided the following injury updates for the Senators: Vaclav Varada will undergo more tests on Monday to determine the full extent of his left knee injury suffered Saturday night. At the very least, he has suffered an MCL sprain.
It would be one thing if all these injuries started piling up and our team was first or 2nd in the conference and had a sizeable lead. But they are barely holding on to 7th in the conference after 30 games (well 29).

Varada's injury doesn't look good. Looks like it'll be a month or more for him. With an already depleted lineup including Volchenkov out for the season, an injury prone Fisher who will certainly get injured again before the playoffs (if the Sens make them) and Pothier out with a concussion, our depth guys, and mostly gritty guys are getting injured.

Our lineup is soft enough as it is. Injuries to 3 of our grittiest guys will make for an even more timid Sens lineup and I dont like the looks of that.

The team is in trouble and I hope that a shakeup like Starting Emery or Prusek ahead of Mr. Mediocre (Lalime) will spark the team. If not we may be looking at a 7th or 8th place finish in the East.

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12-14-2003, 10:51 AM
  #12
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Time for Rachunek to log more icetime and return to his form of yesteryear.

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Old
12-14-2003, 10:53 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
The Sens need to learn when it's going to be 'that kind of game' and play accordingly. Martin's strategy of just playing through the flak has gotten three regulars injured, and Alfie's shrug to the refs in the first was one of the most disappointing gestures I've ever seen from the captain.

If the other team is going to come out with intent to injure, the gloves have to come off, and the sticks up. Period.

Other Dave
Ummmm, ok.

IT was a Bergeron clean hit on Volchenkov and Varada, there was no intent what so ever, and i beleive it was Boynton with another clean hit on Pothier that rattled his noggin.

Its unfortunate that anyone got injured, but to insinuate intent, especially if you saw the hits, is wrong.

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Old
12-14-2003, 11:11 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
The Sens need to learn when it's going to be 'that kind of game' and play accordingly. Martin's strategy of just playing through the flak has gotten three regulars injured, and Alfie's shrug to the refs in the first was one of the most disappointing gestures I've ever seen from the captain.

If the other team is going to come out with intent to injure, the gloves have to come off, and the sticks up. Period.

Other Dave
I have to agree, and here's where Martin is notoriously awful. There comes a time when the team has to stick up for each other and just kick some a$$. Three injured players in two games within a week of each other... there should have been some kind of noticeable reaction, or at least more than was shown. Unfortunately, it seems that Martin has successfully programmed the players to interpret an emotional reaction as bad and punitive to team play. I bet Muckler was having an ulcer watching it all - it's moments like that that makes it tough to be a Sens fan sometimes... no pride, no heart - and in this case, no win either.

And that comment about the hit on Volchenkov being clean... I don't know about that. I thought at the very least it was a penalty - which is to say 'not clean'.

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12-14-2003, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_fan
Ummmm, ok.

IT was a Bergeron clean hit on Volchenkov and Varada, there was no intent what so ever, and i beleive it was Boynton with another clean hit on Pothier that rattled his noggin.

Its unfortunate that anyone got injured, but to insinuate intent, especially if you saw the hits, is wrong.
It's not a matter of whether or not there was intent to injure, the point is over the course of 2 games in a span of one week, 3 of our guys went down with pretty bloody serious injuries while playing Boston. The Sens NEED to step up and say "look, intended or not, you better watch it because the next guy who makes one of our guys go down, or even comes close, is going to get his head knocked off". Call me freaking naive, I was under the assumption that right off the bat one of our guys would have a chat to Bergeron about walking on thin ice after that questionable Volchenkov hit. Boy was I wrong. What happens? He goes out and sends Varada out of the game. I could care less whether Bergeron intended to send these guys out, the point is he needs to be punished. Why? Without any repercussions, do you think he's going to think twice about another sketchy situation?

Lessons need to be learned, and when someone is pushing the limits and sending our guys out of games, someone on the Sens needs to teach these lessons.

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12-14-2003, 12:50 PM
  #16
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I saw the hit on Volchenkov and although one could argue there was no intent to injure, and it wasn't a pure hit from behind, I wouldn't call it Ivory Snow clean. I don't think Volchenkov saw him and the angle and distance to the boards was such that Anton got maximum force impact into the boards where there was no give. Anton's shoulder absorbed most of the hit on the boards. Two games and two injuries later from Bergeron, and you have to start thinking that even though he may not be going out there to purposefully put players in the hospital, the young man is probably playing with a zeal intent on making an impression. So far that impression is probably positive in New England and less so elsewhere. If this keeps up, I'm sure Bergeron will get his due, it won't necessarily come from the Sens. Actually, odds are it won't come from the Sens, because Jacques Martin doesn't operate that way although many wish he did....Personally, I don't want the Sens to lose concentration and run around the ice looking to get even in the next Bruins contest. Best way to hurt the Bruins back is to beat them on the ice by posting a win.

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12-14-2003, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbl1p
It's not a matter of whether or not there was intent to injure, the point is over the course of 2 games in a span of one week, 3 of our guys went down with pretty bloody serious injuries while playing Boston. The Sens NEED to step up and say "look, intended or not, you better watch it because the next guy who makes one of our guys go down, or even comes close, is going to get his head knocked off". Call me freaking naive, I was under the assumption that right off the bat one of our guys would have a chat to Bergeron about walking on thin ice after that questionable Volchenkov hit. Boy was I wrong. What happens? He goes out and sends Varada out of the game. I could care less whether Bergeron intended to send these guys out, the point is he needs to be punished. Why? Without any repercussions, do you think he's going to think twice about another sketchy situation?

Lessons need to be learned, and when someone is pushing the limits and sending our guys out of games, someone on the Sens needs to teach these lessons.
ummm, again, i would have to say you are really overeacting.

TO say "The Sens NEED to step up and say "look, intended or not, you better watch it because the next guy who makes one of our guys go down, or even comes close, is going to get his head knocked off" is just way off base.

So the sens should send a memo stating that when they play the bruins, the bruins arent aloowed to check them? Pothier was a clean hit, Bergeron and Varada, Varada was trying to hit hiim as well, and caught the worst of it and they banged knees, unfortunate but part of the game, and yes, intent has alot to do with it.

How do u punish or take retribution on someone for an accident? I could see it if it were a high stick, or boarding, or slashing.....or something, but they were clean hits, with no intent to injure period, and that is a big difference.

And as far as the Volchenko hit, it was still clean, they were both at odd angles, it looked like Volchenkov tried getting by Beregeron on the boards and didnt. what was he supposed to do, not hit him becuase he put himself in a vulnerable spot? Look at it this way, if it were reversed and three bruins were out from clean hits by say alfredson or someone, the exact same hits, and i was sceaming bloody murder and revenge, do u think it would be warranted?

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12-14-2003, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck
I saw the hit on Volchenkov and although one could argue there was no intent to injure, and it wasn't a pure hit from behind, I wouldn't call it Ivory Snow clean. I don't think Volchenkov saw him and the angle and distance to the boards was such that Anton got maximum force impact into the boards where there was no give. Anton's shoulder absorbed most of the hit on the boards. Two games and two injuries later from Bergeron, and you have to start thinking that even though he may not be going out there to purposefully put players in the hospital, the young man is probably playing with a zeal intent on making an impression. So far that impression is probably positive in New England and less so elsewhere. If this keeps up, I'm sure Bergeron will get his due, it won't necessarily come from the Sens. Actually, odds are it won't come from the Sens, because Jacques Martin doesn't operate that way although many wish he did....Personally, I don't want the Sens to lose concentration and run around the ice looking to get even in the next Bruins contest. Best way to hurt the Bruins back is to beat them on the ice by posting a win.

He has already made an impression, and it doesnt come from his hits people. And how is his impression less so in places other than new england?


He wont get his dues as u put it, because he isnt owed any.

He gets hit just like everyone else, and he hits back, just like everyone else.

Its unfortunate that Volchenkov was in an awkward position, and i really dont how varada got his knee hurt in that collision, havent seen the replay enough yet

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12-14-2003, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_fan
ummm, again, i would have to say you are really overeacting.
I believe you don't understand what 'sticking up for teammates' is all about.
Wether or not the injuries were intentional or not is irrelevant in this situation. If one of your teammates gets hurt, let alone two at the hands of the same person, you send a message to make sure it doesnt happen again. You think if Bergeron gets pounded by Neil he won't think twice before throwing a big hit next game? You think he won't be a little more timid? He will, there is no doubt.

I vividly remember a Bruins game against Columbus earlier this year, where Luke Richardson nailed Glen Murray with a huge open ice hit. Was it dirty? No! Did Thornton charge at him like he was a bull and Richardson was waiving a red flag? You're damn right. He beat the crap out of Richardson and got an instigator penalty for good measure. That is sticking up for your teammates, Thornton did the right thing and I doubt you disagree.

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12-14-2003, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Daddy
I believe you don't understand what 'sticking up for teammates' is all about.
Wether or not the injuries were intentional or not is irrelevant in this situation. If one of your teammates gets hurt, let alone two at the hands of the same person, you send a message to make sure it doesnt happen again. You think if Bergeron gets pounded by Neil he won't think twice before throwing a big hit next game? You think he won't be a little more timid? He will, there is no doubt.

I vividly remember a Bruins game against Columbus earlier this year, where Luke Richardson nailed Glen Murray with a huge open ice hit. Was it dirty? No! Did Thornton charge at him like he was a bull and Richardson was waiving a red flag? You're damn right. He beat the crap out of Richardson and got an instigator penalty for good measure. That is sticking up for your teammates, Thornton did the right thing and I doubt you disagree.
My point exactly. Well said.

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12-14-2003, 05:36 PM
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I'm not insinuating that Bergeron's plays were dirty (the hit on Varada was charging, but a) charging is never called in this league anymore, and b) Varada left his feet to try to hit Bergeron in the head, and paid for his inability to take the hit). What I'm saying is that it's obvious that Boston came out with a chippy game plan, cheating as much as they could get away with, and within five minutes it was clear to everyone watching that the refs were just letting everything go. The proper response from the captain in this situation isn't to shrug theatrically but to feed lumber to the next player who hooked him.

The Sens need to learn how to read the kind of game that will be played on any given night and play accordingly. Kudos to the Bruins for reading the refs and playing their game.

Other Dave

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12-14-2003, 06:36 PM
  #22
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2 more weeks

The problem is the Sens never have been a team to respond well to adversity/injuries/playing the frefs etc. And they wont be as long as Jacques is around. I dont advocate firing him just for fun especially if there isn't anyone available but there are some questions regarding our team...

Now that 2 of our grittiest guys are out (A-Train for the season and Varada for an extended period) we're in trouble. Way too soft, regular season or not.

The injuries are piling up and the Sens are underachieving. I'll give em 2 more weeks.

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12-15-2003, 05:20 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Daddy
I believe you don't understand what 'sticking up for teammates' is all about.
Wether or not the injuries were intentional or not is irrelevant in this situation. If one of your teammates gets hurt, let alone two at the hands of the same person, you send a message to make sure it doesnt happen again. You think if Bergeron gets pounded by Neil he won't think twice before throwing a big hit next game? You think he won't be a little more timid? He will, there is no doubt.

I vividly remember a Bruins game against Columbus earlier this year, where Luke Richardson nailed Glen Murray with a huge open ice hit. Was it dirty? No! Did Thornton charge at him like he was a bull and Richardson was waiving a red flag? You're damn right. He beat the crap out of Richardson and got an instigator penalty for good measure. That is sticking up for your teammates, Thornton did the right thing and I doubt you disagree.
And i beleive u dont get the jist of the posts i was responding to.

I vividly remember Doug Doull taking a couple runs at two of your players, and i vividly remember Neil challenging him and them fighting.

Thats sticking up for your team mates.

The difference, no on took runs at Volchenkov, Varada, or Pothier.

And if Neil going after Bergeron would make him more timid, less likely to throw a check, then he dosent belong in the NHL.

And by all accoubts then, Doull should be going after Alfredsson if that were to happen, and would your really see a point in that?

"Did Thornton charge at him like he was a bull and Richardson was waiving a red flag?" bit of an over statement there, Joe challenged him and they fought. *(and the hit, clean as it was, looked like an elbow first time around, and Joe reacted).

But,like you said, Luke to a run at Murray.

What i disagree with are the posts insinuating intent and 'when the other team comes out to injure us' and crap like like that.

There would be a big difference if the guy that Doull took a run at got hurt, as opposed to Varada and Beregron both going to hit each other and Varada getting hurt, Volchenkov falling awkwardly into the boards, and Pothier banging his head when he got hit.

Liek I said, the only message you send when your get your bell rung from a claen hit is to hit back, someone takes a run at you (like Richardson, clean hit, but he took a 'run' at Murrary, just like Doull did) then fine, drop the gloves and send a message.

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12-15-2003, 05:31 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
I'm not insinuating that Bergeron's plays were dirty (the hit on Varada was charging, but a) charging is never called in this league anymore, and b) Varada left his feet to try to hit Bergeron in the head, and paid for his inability to take the hit). What I'm saying is that it's obvious that Boston came out with a chippy game plan, cheating as much as they could get away with, and within five minutes it was clear to everyone watching that the refs were just letting everything go. The proper response from the captain in this situation isn't to shrug theatrically but to feed lumber to the next player who hooked him.

The Sens need to learn how to read the kind of game that will be played on any given night and play accordingly. Kudos to the Bruins for reading the refs and playing their game.

Other Dave
were do you really get any of this from?

As for Bergeron charging Varada, cant say i agree, but if i get the chance to see the replay again, i'll look for it.

Its not obvious that boston came out with a chippy game plan, they took the body, something they dont do enough off, thats hockey.

"cheating as much as they could get away with" come on now, thats ridicoulous. So there game plan was 'hey lets cheat and see who we can hurt?? PLease, there were enough non calls going both ways, hoooking, holding and slashing as well. Dont sit there and act like the Sens arent just as guilty, and kudos to no one.

And as far as your captain laying the lumber on someone, i gotta admit, this is one of the few Bruins-Sens game were he wasnt.

YOu said it yourself, Varada went to hit Bergeron high in the head, and yet your post comes across like the Bruins are some cheap dirty team that just hooks and holds and slashes, the Senators are squeaky clean and do no wrong.

Like Thornton and Knuble were getting held and whacked all night as well, i suppose you missed that high sticking to Joes face that wasnt called, or the one on Chara that was called (when he nailed a bruin forward in the face twice in about 2 seconds)

There was enough junk going both ways, at least i can see that much.

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12-15-2003, 05:37 AM
  #25
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Looks like you're arguing semantics so this will be my last contribution to this thread.

Richardson did not 'take a run' at Murray, no more than Bergeron took a run at Volchenkov. He gave Murray a clean hit and rung his bell, Thornton reacted. Bergeron gave Volchenkov a clean hit and busted his shoulder, nothing happened. I said Thornton did the right thing, and you agreed, it works both ways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_fan
What i disagree with are the posts insinuating intent and 'when the other team comes out to injure us' and crap like like that.
I didn't say Boston was intending to injure the Sens players, I'm saying it doesn't matter.

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