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Old
01-27-2013, 12:51 PM
  #1
PROMputt
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What's with all the negative threads?

Let me first write I am not the biggest Snow or Wang supporter. I would write SnowJob in reference to Snow and WangJob for Wang. I think both have made many mistakes and moves that I have not agreed with(in fact just down right pissed me off). Some of the first and second round picks I liked and other no so much (from round 3 and out let's all at least admit the draft is VERY unpredictable and I think Snow has done a very good job with those picks). Also this may be the first thread I have ever created, but I just do not understand all the negativity lately? Martin is being used wrong, Okposo may have to go, tired of the dumpster diving, making the wrong pick, handling Nino wrong- etc...
Let's see how the season plays out. I firmly believe (hopeful?) that the 2013-14 season is the real litmus test for Snow's rebuild plan. Strome will be on the Island, Nino if he stops the complaining, should be ready, Nelson could be/should be ready, Donovan, Sundstrom, who know's maybe Persson?. Cizikas and Ullstom should have established themselves somewhat by then. And there are still a handful of prospects behind them that could be ready or should be by 2014-15. Re-builds are not easy/painless or every team would do it, but if done correctly can build a team successfully for a long time. Why do you think teams like Calgary and Toronto(and other) resist a rebuild because most GM's know two things; one- they probably will not have a job when the rebuild comes to fruition as most owners are not patient enough. And two- the fan base will become disenfranchised and attendance will be horrible (also a third is sometimes they do not work or workout as planned and the team can still suck- LOL).
Snow and Wang are in this rebuild for the long haul as they have shown. You can either choose to find some positives or wallow in negativity, either way you should try to find a way to enjoy what we have (Tavares, Hammonic, Moulson, Grabner, etc...)
One last thing about picks and prospects. It is always easier to say so and so should have been picked before a current Islander draft pick. But unless you have scouted, watched and interviewed these kids the draft is very difficult to predict. Team needs vs best available, size vs skill, talent vs character; not easy. And this constant bickering on these boards about bringing up kids to early and not letting them develop vs leaving them on the farm to long and not giving a chance is insane. NOBODY has the perfect formula as every prospect/draft pick is like a snow flake- they are all different.
Anyway if this post is like many others here the naysayers will pull out a sentence I have written and cut up the whole post because of it. I just wish I was a perfect in my life as many of you expect Snow to be.


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01-27-2013, 12:55 PM
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seafoam
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People are impatient.

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01-27-2013, 01:03 PM
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iggy
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
People are impatient.
The Isles have not won a playoff round in 20 years.
Isles fans are impatient?
Really?

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01-27-2013, 01:09 PM
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People are impatient.
Are you serious?

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01-27-2013, 01:12 PM
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seafoam
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Originally Posted by iggy View Post
The Isles have not won a playoff round in 20 years.
Isles fans are impatient?
Really?
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Originally Posted by JT91 View Post
Are you serious?
I was talking strictly about the rebuild.

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01-27-2013, 01:30 PM
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OlTimeHockey
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I was talking strictly about the rebuild.
Philly finished their rebuild. Pens did, too. Carolina as well. LA did OK with theirs. I think they all got good management and brought in quality players. I do not believe one team above blamed anyone for their shortcomings in regards to their job not being done - because the GM's and owners all did their jobs.

Now add poverty successes like Phoenix. St.Louis. Anaheim didn't sell many tickets or succeed much better than those.

We're being asked to be patient with an owner up until this year rushed every draft pick he could to get around spending money (CHEAP!) on talent and who refused to get quality to help the kids. Snow got Moulson and Grabner and some talent here and there but no defining talent to help. Why? He sure tried....but everyone but the most dedicated (brainwashed) fans sees the rebuild was not done properly as Wang refused to allow that. His rebuild looks like Milstein's rebuild. Well, now....

The CBA forbids it, so we wait now on prospects and can rebuild properly (minus bringing in talent) in some aspects.

Just don't count on help from the owner.




Fans have been patient. They just have been taken for a ride a lot, too.

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01-27-2013, 01:48 PM
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BROOKLYnKNIGHTS
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Im getting so upset with the negativity around here when I believe this team has a bright future and Garth has the team headed in the right direction. This young team plays an exciting brand of hockey.

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01-27-2013, 01:52 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by PROMputt View Post
Let me first write I am not the biggest Snow or Wang supporter. I would write SnowJob in reference to Snow and WangJob for Wang. I think both have made many mistakes and moves that I have not agreed with(in fact just down right pissed me off). Some of the first and second round picks I liked and other no so much (from round 3 and out let's all at least admit the draft is VERY unpredictable and I think Snow has done a very good job with those picks). Also this may be the first thread I have ever created, but I just do not understand all the negativity lately? Martin is being used wrong, Okposo may have to go, tired of the dumpster diving, making the wrong pick, handling Nino wrong- etc...
Let's see how the season plays out. I firmly believe (hopeful?) that the 2013-14 season is the real litmus test for Snow's rebuild plan. Strome will be on the Island, Nino if he stops the complaining, should be ready, Nelson could be/should be ready, Donovan, Sundstrom, who know's maybe Persson?. Cizikas and Ullstom should have established themselves somewhat by then. And there are still a handful of prospects behind them that could be ready or should be by 2014-15. Re-builds are not easy/painless or every team would do it, but if done correctly can build a team successfully for a long time. Why do you think teams like Calgary and Toronto(and other) resist a rebuild because most GM's know two things; one- they probably will not have a job when the rebuild comes to fruition as most owners are not patient enough. And two- the fan base will become disenfranchised and attendance will be horrible (also a third is sometimes they do not work or workout as planned and the team can still suck- LOL).
Snow and Wang are in this rebuild for the long haul as they have shown. You can either choose to find some positives or wallow in negativity, either way you should try to find a way to enjoy what we have (Tavares, Hammonic, Moulson, Grabner, etc...)
One last thing about picks and prospects. It is always easier to say so and so should have been picked before a current Islander draft pick. But unless you have scouted, watched and interviewed these kids the draft is very difficult to predict. Team needs vs best available, size vs skill, talent vs character; not easy. And this constant bickering on these boards about bringing up kids to early and not letting them develop vs leaving them on the farm to long and not giving a chance is insane. NOBODY has the perfect formula as every prospect/draft pick is like a snow flake- they are all different.
Anyway if this post is like many others here the naysayers will pull out a sentence I have written and cut up the whole post because of it. I just wish I was a perfect in my life as many of you expect Snow to be.
Love this post and defines my exact sentiments except for one thing and that is Snow and the job he has done which i think has been the best he could with the little he has to work with. The litmus test will be the first year in Brooklyn because i wouldnt mind the Isles tank to acquire say Drouin or Pulock

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01-27-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Im getting so upset with the negativity around here when I believe this team has a bright future and Garth has the team headed in the right direction. This young team plays an exciting brand of hockey.
If only they would change the team's name.

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01-27-2013, 01:56 PM
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Hip Of Rick
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Love this post and defines my exact sentiments except for one thing and that is Snow and the job he has done which i think has been the best he could with the little he has to work with. The litmus test will be the first year in Brooklyn because i wouldnt mind the Isles tank to acquire say Drouin or Pulock
In what world do fans root for the team to tank? Its been 5 straight years of lotto finishes and not winning a playoff round since Clinton was in office

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01-27-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Philly finished their rebuild. Pens did, too. Carolina as well. LA did OK with theirs. I think they all got good management and brought in quality players. I do not believe one team above blamed anyone for their shortcomings in regards to their job not being done - because the GM's and owners all did their jobs.

Now add poverty successes like Phoenix. St.Louis. Anaheim didn't sell many tickets or succeed much better than those.

We're being asked to be patient with an owner up until this year rushed every draft pick he could to get around spending money (CHEAP!) on talent and who refused to get quality to help the kids. Snow got Moulson and Grabner and some talent here and there but no defining talent to help. Why? He sure tried....but everyone but the most dedicated (brainwashed) fans sees the rebuild was not done properly as Wang refused to allow that. His rebuild looks like Milstein's rebuild. Well, now....

The CBA forbids it, so we wait now on prospects and can rebuild properly (minus bringing in talent) in some aspects.

Just don't count on help from the owner.




Fans have been patient. They just have been taken for a ride a lot, too.
You're not asked to do anything. You choose to follow the Isles. As an Islanders fan, you need to understand that Wang is going to run this organization the way he wants, whether it's a smart hockey move or not. You need to accept this.

I've accepted it and learned to look at things as positive as I can, for example, we have a glut of young promising players in the system and a top five player in the league who wants to be part of the solution.

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01-27-2013, 02:09 PM
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well penguins got a phenom..not even generational..an actual phenom and also got a nice high pick with Malkin. we got picks just past the superstar area...4-7 all the way. the nomans land...you could land a good player if he pans out as opposed to most probably be a star 1-2 picks maybe 1-3

give us 2 first picks and we would have rebuilt faster

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01-27-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
You're not asked to do anything. You choose to follow the Isles. As an Islanders fan, you need to understand that Wang is going to run this organization the way he wants, whether it's a smart hockey move or not. You need to accept this.

I've accepted it and learned to look at things as positive as I can, for example, we have a glut of young promising players in the system and a top five player in the league who wants to be part of the solution.
Umm....what fan can run his favorite team the way he wants?

So we mist sit passively, stay positive and sing, "I'm an Oscar Meyer Weener" happily on the couch at age forty, naked and content, while we suck?

I see the positives. I just hate the negatives and want them changed.

Every stinking year.

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01-27-2013, 02:42 PM
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well penguins got a phenom..not even generational..an actual phenom and also got a nice high pick with Malkin. we got picks just past the superstar area...4-7 all the way. the nomans land...you could land a good player if he pans out as opposed to most probably be a star 1-2 picks maybe 1-3

give us 2 first picks and we would have rebuilt faster
Conversely, get a good coach and not Scott Scrotum, bring in a solid UFA years ago and let Okposo and Bailey come up right and have quality defensemen play good hockey and our rebuild would have come along a lot better.

But we rushed kids, had a miserably bad system of all offense with a horrible coach and did a 180* with new rushed kids (and some solid guys like Moulson, Hamonic and Grabs - kudos to Snow) and see we're further along but could have been where Phoenix, Philly and other teams had gotten at our stage.

It's a "refuse to do it right" mentality our owner brings. So I can laud Snow for doing what he did in the face of criminally inept ownership.

And as I said before, the Isles fanbase should hug an NHL owner and player rep for prohibiting Wang from using kids to circumvent the cap floor and bring s*it on skates every night.

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01-27-2013, 02:45 PM
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PROMputt
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Philly finished their rebuild. Pens did, too. Carolina as well. LA did OK with theirs. I think they all got good management and brought in quality players. I do not believe one team above blamed anyone for their shortcomings in regards to their job not being done - because the GM's and owners all did their jobs.

Now add poverty successes like Phoenix. St.Louis. Anaheim didn't sell many tickets or succeed much better than those.

We're being asked to be patient with an owner up until this year rushed every draft pick he could to get around spending money (CHEAP!) on talent and who refused to get quality to help the kids. Snow got Moulson and Grabner and some talent here and there but no defining talent to help. Why? He sure tried....but everyone but the most dedicated (brainwashed) fans sees the rebuild was not done properly as Wang refused to allow that. His rebuild looks like Milstein's rebuild. Well, now....

The CBA forbids it, so we wait now on prospects and can rebuild properly (minus bringing in talent) in some aspects.

Just don't count on help from the owner.




Fans have been patient. They just have been taken for a ride a lot, too.
LOL the Flyers did not go through a rebuild. They had a bad year and redid the whole team in a year, then the next year and then again. The Pens had 5 straight years in the top five of picks(as the Islanders have, except they got Mallin and Crosby(lucky?) not Tavares and Bailey), LA 'completed' their rebuild when they had let all the prospects mature and then traded for Richards and Carter. Last I check Carolina won the cup in 05-06 but I was unaware of a rebuild through the draft for them?
A rebuild is not 1 or 2 years. It usually is 5-6 painful years. I boiling/breaking point again is next season.

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01-27-2013, 02:54 PM
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It's a simple answer: We've been a losing team for quite some time and this season, although early, doesn't look much better so people get pissed and make ridiculous threads.

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01-27-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PROMputt View Post
A rebuild is not 1 or 2 years. It usually is 5-6 painful years. I boiling/breaking point again is next season.
Lots of people said the boiling/breaking point was this season. Some say its next, some say its 2 years when we make it to Brooklyn, some say its a 3 years after we establish a year in Brooklyn.

The real answer is we are past the breaking point. The team sucks and won't improve until we have a new owner, GM, coach etc

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01-27-2013, 02:58 PM
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Umm....what fan can run his favorite team the way he wants?

So we mist sit passively, stay positive and sing, "I'm an Oscar Meyer Weener" happily on the couch at age forty, naked and content, while we suck?

I see the positives. I just hate the negatives and want them changed.

Every stinking year.
Believe me, I hate the negatives just as much as anyone, but there are no signs of them changing so why should I or anyone else worry about them?

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01-27-2013, 02:59 PM
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LOL the Flyers did not go through a rebuild. They had a bad year and redid the whole team in a year, then the next year and then again. The Pens had 5 straight years in the top five of picks(as the Islanders have, except they got Mallin and Crosby(lucky?) not Tavares and Bailey), LA 'completed' their rebuild when they had let all the prospects mature and then traded for Richards and Carter. Last I check Carolina won the cup in 05-06 but I was unaware of a rebuild through the draft for them?
A rebuild is not 1 or 2 years. It usually is 5-6 painful years. I boiling/breaking point again is next season.
A rebuild doesn't have to take 2/3rds of a decade to complete.. You can completely rebuild a team with a couple of high draft picks, smart drafting with the high picks and in the later rounds and surrounding your developing players with high end talent And quality veterans to accelerate towards being a contender.. Which is where I think Carolina is and goaltending issues aside I think Philly is as well.

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01-27-2013, 03:00 PM
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Lots of people said the boiling/breaking point was this season. Some say its next, some say its 2 years when we make it to Brooklyn, some say its a 3 years after we establish a year in Brooklyn.

The real answer is we are past the breaking point. The team sucks and won't improve until we have a new owner, GM, coach etc
Yes, because people were expecting Visnovsky to be here.

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01-27-2013, 03:00 PM
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LOL the Flyers did not go through a rebuild. They had a bad year and redid the whole team in a year, then the next year and then again. The Pens had 5 straight years in the top five of picks(as the Islanders have, except they got Mallin and Crosby(lucky?) not Tavares and Bailey), LA 'completed' their rebuild when they had let all the prospects mature and then traded for Richards and Carter. Last I check Carolina won the cup in 05-06 but I was unaware of a rebuild through the draft for them?
A rebuild is not 1 or 2 years. It usually is 5-6 painful years. I boiling/breaking point again is next season.
The Flyers revamped their roster to return to a winning state.

In other words, A REBUILD.

Of course, LI reasoning would have you think a rebuild is only when we draft talent and sprinkle in vets only when we're ready to compete.

The Pens drafted talent and when they drafted Crosby, had veterans ready to bring success to the prospects. Which guys were inserted into the lineup the year before Sid and Sid's draft year? What vets? They rebuilt.

Phoenix....what path did they take? Bring in vets and kids after developing them?

Chicago....kids, drafting, several swats at bringing in vets?

Carolina....what path in their rebuild?

So yeah, what's your point?

And LA and St.Louis are doing well in their "player rearrangements" as well.

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01-27-2013, 03:01 PM
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A rebuild doesn't have to take 2/3rds of a decade to complete.. You can completely rebuild a team with a couple of high draft picks, smart drafting with the high picks and in the later rounds and surrounding your developing players with high end talent And quality veterans to accelerate towards being a contender.. Which is where I think Carolina is and goaltending issues aside I think Philly is as well.
Shh!

Let others believe! No negativity!

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01-27-2013, 03:03 PM
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Believe me, I hate the negatives just as much as anyone, but there are no signs of them changing so why should I or anyone else worry about them?
Look at the effect of the CBA on Wang's penny pinching. We still have people wanting rookies up once the umbilical chord is cut, but the CBA removes any financial reward from Wang, so we're likely to see kids get developed properly.

There's your positive change. AND A HUGE ONE!

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01-27-2013, 03:05 PM
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Yes, because people were expecting Visnovsky to be here.
Even with Visnovsky this is a bubble team at best, not exactly success. Should a 37-38 year old dman brought in for 1 season change ones expectations?

Streit missed an entire year due to injury and we sucked and people used that as an excuse for the bottom 5 finish. Streit returned the following year and we still finished in the bottom 5. Injuries/Vis situations are excuses losing teams use.

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01-27-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Look at the effect of the CBA on Wang's penny pinching. We still have people wanting rookies up once the umbilical chord is cut, but the CBA removes any financial reward from Wang, so we're likely to see kids get developed properly.

There's your positive change. AND A HUGE ONE!
Yeah, maybe lightning will strike twice for once, the Isles have had enough top 15 picks.

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