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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-27-2013, 03:08 PM
  #551
Roulin
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Because he was a piece of ****.

There aren't a lot of players I will openly hate for who they are. Begin is one of them.
Wow, as a player or as a person?

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01-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I think the offer is true and it doesn't make sense for a couple of reasons.

1. If Bergevin wants a bridge deal, the main purpose would be for cost control. If he's willing to go to 4-5million on a bridge deal then the idea is stupid, because PK will most definitely get a significant raise after the deal is up like 99% of all players get.

2. If he had offered fair value, PK would be signed. He said himself he doesn't prefer a bridge deal, but in the end he just wants fair value.

3. It makes no sense to offer a bridge deal unless you're uncertain of the players ability and need to evaluate further (if this is the case, we're in trouble) or you want to restrict costs. PK will end up with more money in the end by accepting a bridge deal, however, security is often more important to a young man with his entire career ahead of him.
Well, to be fair to MB (and I DO think he looks like someone who has stuck to an overly greedy position way too long), there is a logical reason to want to sign a bridge contract.

The reason is to avoid having to sign an 8-year contract, and still have the player until age 31. If you are against deals longer than 6 years, then you do a bridge, followed by a 6 year deal, exactly the route taken with Price and Pacioretty, who are the other two core players the team identified.

Signing a bridge contract for 2 years eats up 1 year of arbitration rights, but still leaves you two years shy of UFA, so that trading a player not in your long-term plans is easier than if you are in the final year before the age 27 deadline.

So, as I said, I understand the idea of a bridge contract if you want to keep a guy until 31 rather than 29 (on a six-year deal) or want to avoid 8-year deals. BUT......... a competent GM has to get the deal done, at a reasonable not piggish number, by the time training camp starts.

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01-27-2013, 03:14 PM
  #553
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Wow, as a player or as a person?
Person. Never forgave him for that 100% useless cross-check on Savard. Probably what started his eventual spiral down into his current health problems.

I hate players who injures other. Begin was one of them.

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01-27-2013, 03:15 PM
  #554
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Where is your logic on this ridiculous statement?
If I remember correctly, Plekanec's camp when Montreal gave him the bridge contract wanted a five year deal around $3.75M and $4M. Instead, Montreal gave him a one year contract. So when Montreal did decide to sign him long term, he now cost $5M per season.

Similar situation happened with Gorges. Not sure about Price.

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01-27-2013, 03:15 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
22 pages?!?

Come on, people! The OP Practically dared us to do better than that!!!


Ours is not to ask why
Ours is but to post and cry


COME ON!! We can finish this thread!
' Ours is not to "reason " why '

Okay, I understand why you didn't want to use that word
in this thread.

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Old
01-27-2013, 03:16 PM
  #556
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' Ours is not to "reason " why '

Okay, I understand why you didn't want to use that word
in this thread.
Guilty as charged..

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01-27-2013, 03:16 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Kade View Post
Where is your logic on this ridiculous statement?
We ended up paying top dollar for those players after their bridge contracts, when we had an opportunity to lock them up long term for cheaper after an off year. Long term it probably cost us much more than it could have if we committed to a long term contract for less $, instead of the bridge contract then the big payoff.

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01-27-2013, 03:17 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
If I remember correctly, Plekanec's camp when Montreal gave him the bridge contract wanted a five year deal around $3.75M and $4M. Instead, Montreal gave him a one year contract. So when Montreal did decide to sign him long term, he now cost $5M per season.

Similar situation happened with Gorges. Not sure about Price.
Okay Pierre. You must know the numbers.

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01-27-2013, 03:23 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
We ended up paying top dollar for those players after their bridge contracts, when we had an opportunity to lock them up long term for cheaper after an off year. Long term it probably cost us much more than it could have if we committed to a long term contract for less $, instead of the bridge contract then the big payoff.
But, there are no guarantees! You should only pay a player after they've had a great season, because then there's no chance that they'll ever regress and end up not being worth the greater amount that you paid for them. Like Gomez.

Geez man, you only buy stock because it's gone up. Didn't you know?

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01-27-2013, 03:26 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Managing the cap.

All Subban has to do is sign a two year bridge for $3.5 per and then when the crap Gauthier contracts are gone, Subban can be given "Doughty" money.

If you give Subban the big contract this year then the Canadiens will be hamstrung regarding the cap once again.

This team still has needs to be filled. With or without Subban, we still need a physical stay at home DMan. We need improvements over Bourque. Cole and Gionta will have to be replaced.

And with Subban's big contract now, Bergevin will be limited as to what he can do to solve those problems.

PK should be able to understand that concept of building a team to compete for a Cup instead of it all being about PK.
Your offer is at least in the ballpark. But in all of your claims that PK needs to take one for team you continually fail to acknowledge that the widely reported team offer is sitting at 2/3 of what you think is fair. I think we could agree that PK accepting 2/7 is already going above and beyond doing what's best for the franchise. Knock $2M more off, this is no longer about the cap, as this offer is obviously completely out of line with Subban's value to the team.

Habs can give Subban 2 years and 8-9M and not have any issues with the cap. Any further improvements can be made by exchanging Bourque, Kaberle and/or Gionta with younger cheaper and most likely better players

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01-27-2013, 03:26 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Kade View Post
Okay Pierre. You must know the numbers.
Plekanec wanted more with more years. Montreal wanted the bridge. Plekanec was about to take them to arbitration so the Canadiens gave him a little more to stay for one year and negotiate a new deal.

I'll try to look up the information but Plekanec wasn't asking for more than $4M in 09 from what I remember.

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01-27-2013, 03:28 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
But, there are no guarantees! You should only pay a player after they've had a great season, because then there's no chance that they'll ever regress and end up not being worth the greater amount that you paid for them. Like Gomez.

Geez man, you only buy stock because it's gone up. Didn't you know?
only pay a player after they ve had a great season???ha ha ha ha ha ha aha ha ah.

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01-27-2013, 04:07 PM
  #563
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Wow, as a player or as a person?
Begin cost us 2 series and was to blame for losing a game that eliminated us from playoff contention.

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01-27-2013, 04:13 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Can't help but feel a bit reassured reading this...
I don't see what's reassuring about what he said?

I read it like "I don't think I'll have any free time coming up here." As in, he came up to the Yale University game and won't have a lot of free time to train while he's there.

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01-27-2013, 04:17 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Begin cost us 2 series and was to blame for losing a game that eliminated us from playoff contention.
That was incompetence. I don't hate people for incompetence. I just don't trust them.

I hate people for acting like dicks and destroying other people's career and lives. Bertuzzi, Cook, Begin.. all the same.

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01-27-2013, 04:26 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
No it won't.

It's a compliance buyout. it doesn't count against the cap.

You might be misled and confused by Gomez's buyout which does count against our cap this season, but that's only because he wasn't supposed to be bought out until next summer, and then his cap hit won't count.

All the compliance buyouts WON'T count on the cap next year or any or any following years (depending on the length of the buyout).
Thanks. Did not realize that.

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01-27-2013, 04:28 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I don't mean to harp on spelling, but the proper spelling of his last name is right on the back of his sweater. I mean... did you even try looking up his contract before you wrote that? Because maybe you would have found out he:

- Makes less than John Michael Liles
- Less than Eric Brewer
- Same cap hit as Tim Gleason
- A tad more than Kyle Quincey
- Same cap hit as Kuba
- Same cap hit but $4M less than Erhoff

And I'd say Gorges is a better defender than all of them. Maybe look around the league before you decide a player is overpaid?
Typo on his name.

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Seriously, you take offense with Gorges' 3.9mil, but not Prust's 2.5? Maybe you'd have Prust play 21 minutes, and Gorges 12?
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Simple enough, Southernhab's perception of cap hits is stuck somewhere around 2006.

And that's not considering that on a full cap, the average salary is 2,8 mil. Just 1,1 mil less than what Gorges is making,

It would also be good for these posters to notice that the max salary for a single player on a 70 mil cap is 14 mil. Gorges makes 10 mil less than that.


Nowhere did I state that Gorges is overpaid. I simply said it is a high dollar contract.


Last edited by SouthernHab: 01-27-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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01-27-2013, 04:39 PM
  #568
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LMAO. He's actually right that it is irrelevant, as per the buyout, because he would be sitting at home and we would still have the cap hit anyway. Because the buyout wasn't supposed to happen until june. In either case, the cap hit would've been there no matter the case.

But his cap hit won't be here next year, and neither will Kaberle's cap hit if he's bought out with the remaining compliance buyout.
Its relevant if you look at the team instead of just Subban.

You take Gomez' $7 million off the books. You can give $6 of it to Subban and leave $1 million to sign a scrub. Or you can pay $3.5 to Subban and have $3.5 to bring in a physical DMan or a player who can make an impact on offense. Giroux's (only using his name as reference for what $3.5ish million can bring) cap hit is $3.75.

So it becomes do we improve the team or do we improve PK's bank account?

I am positive that Bergevin is more concerned with the team than one single player.

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01-27-2013, 04:41 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Its relevant if you look at the team instead of just Subban.

You take Gomez' $7 million off the books. You can give $6 of it to Subban and leave $1 million to sign a scrub. Or you can pay $3.5 to Subban and have $3.5 to bring in a physical DMan or a player who can make an impact on offense. Giroux's (only using his name as reference for what $3.5ish million can bring) cap hit is $3.75.

So it becomes do we improve the team or do we improve PK's bank account?

I am positive that Bergevin is more concerned with the team than one single player.
Your point is irrelevant as we continue to tell you that he is not offering PK 3.5. Which we all believe is a reasonable to bare minimum he would look at accepting.

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01-27-2013, 04:41 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Typo on his name.



Nowhere did I state that Gorges is overpaid. I simply said it is a high dollar contract.
No problem paying Gorges 3.9, especially when he was the team's #2 defenseman last year and lead the league in blocks.

Massive problem with trying to low ball the only defenseman who played better than him last year though.

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01-27-2013, 04:42 PM
  #571
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Its relevant if you look at the team instead of just Subban.

You take Gomez' $7 million off the books. You can give $6 of it to Subban and leave $1 million to sign a scrub. Or you can pay $3.5 to Subban and have $3.5 to bring in a physical DMan or a player who can make an impact on offense. Giroux's (only using his name as reference for what $3.5ish million can bring) cap hit is $3.75.

So it becomes do we improve the team or do we improve PK's bank account?

I am positive that Bergevin is more concerned with the team than one single player.
Do we improve the team by trading Subban for less than his value or signing him to a contract of fair value? Your argument makes no sense.

The only way this team gets better is to sign it's best skater and allow him to improve his game.

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01-27-2013, 04:47 PM
  #572
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Your point is irrelevant as we continue to tell you that he is not offering PK 3.5. Which we all believe is a reasonable to bare minimum he would look at accepting.
Then this thread is irrelevant because no one knows what Subban is asking for.

Door swings both ways.

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01-27-2013, 04:51 PM
  #573
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I think the whole saga will end this week... Hopefully not with a trade.

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01-27-2013, 04:52 PM
  #574
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To Toronto: PK Subban

To Montreal: James van Reimsdyk, 1st round pick.
thats a tough decision. i'd have to say we'd have to if it was a top pick. i would than take JVR and try and package him with something to get another top 3 and pick drouin and mackinnon.

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01-27-2013, 04:53 PM
  #575
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but i do not see this ending in a trade. just wouldn't make sense to give up a 23 year old puck moving d-man on a team that's trying to move forward. I see PK signing soon

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