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All Encompassing Winger Acquisition Thread

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #376
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Després for Setoguchi must be fair - Pen's fans begrudgingly accept it, while claiming they wish they could trade Després for someone a tad bit better and more consistent than Seto and Wild fans begrudgingly accept it, while claiming they would like to trade Seto for someone a tad bit better and more proven than Després.

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01-27-2013, 02:34 PM
  #377
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Setoguchi is a James Neal type player for us, IMO. He could come here and explode, I think, mainly because he's a right shot and can play the left wall of the PP. He'd be money.

And from that thread on trade board, it seems as though the Wild would like Niskanen. How hilarious would it be if Shero traded Goligoski for Neal and Setoguchi?

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01-27-2013, 02:40 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Our "disagreements" over Kulemin (if you can even call them that) have never been over his skill or what he'd do on this team, only that I think it's impossible to acquire him.

I do think some fans would be disappointed with him, because I don't think he'd reach 30g again, but he does all of the little things well, is tenacious on the boards in both ends, and doesn't need the puck on his stick to be effective (so he'd compliment the two puck hogs on the line :p).

So, yes, I would love to have Kulemin on the team. I'll drive to the ACC right now and picket Nonis.
It'll take a little more than a picket . . .

And, yeah, he'd cost a lot, a lot more than the 'stats' justify. No-brainers usually work like that.

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01-27-2013, 02:42 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't think I want Despres traded for someone like Setoguchi, but I also don't believe he's being sat due to demeanor, and I don't think they are playing Lovejoy to showcase him. My gut tells me Despres is getting moved, and soon (they could just send him down to the A if they wanted to send a message)
That's quite possibly the case. I'd say probably, but Bylsma factors into the probability downgrade.

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01-27-2013, 02:43 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
Després for Setoguchi must be fair - Pen's fans begrudgingly accept it, while claiming they wish they could trade Després for someone a tad bit better and more consistent than Seto and Wild fans begrudgingly accept it, while claiming they would like to trade Seto for someone a tad bit better and more proven than Després.
Honestly, THAT is how you know a deal is fair around here.

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Setoguchi is a James Neal type player for us, IMO. He could come here and explode, I think, mainly because he's a right shot and can play the left wall of the PP. He'd be money.

And from that thread on trade board, it seems as though the Wild would like Niskanen. How hilarious would it be if Shero traded Goligoski for Neal and Setoguchi?
1. VERY funny

2. I can't see them dealing Niskanen, not without a top four replacement handy. ****, I never thought I'd see the day that I'd type that.

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01-27-2013, 02:45 PM
  #381
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I just think you're way off on mentioning Seto as a reclamation project. That's just a false statement. Proven 20 goal forwards are not reclamation projects.

Setoguchi wasn't a fit with Heatley. Koivu missed much of last season. And Seto was coming off an injury.

Despres isn't ready for a top 4 role this year. And we have the depth to replace him on the bottom pairing.

You mentioned we don't have any other dynamic D aside from Letang if Despres is moved. We moved Goligoski two years ago with Orpik/Martin/Michalek/Lovejoy/Engelland on our roster to replace him. I doubt that stops Shero from filling a hole on Sid's line.
I suppose that Seto is a reclamation project in the comparable way to how Neal was after the 2011 playoffs.

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01-27-2013, 02:45 PM
  #382
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I just think you're way off on mentioning Seto as a reclamation project. That's just a false statement. Proven 20 goal forwards are not reclamation projects.
Man...he plays 70 games, scores around 20 goals and averages around 35-40 points per. That is mediocre production for a top 6 winger, low-scoring team or not. I won't get into semantics, but we are not acquiring a man currently producing at a good pace for a scoring winger, but hope he could do so here. Call that whatever you want.

Quote:
Setoguchi wasn't a fit with Heatley. Koivu missed much of last season. And Seto was coming off an injury.
Not that much. And yes, I understand Setoguchi was coming off an injury. He wasn't when he stopped producing in San Jose with an elite center.

Quote:
Despres isn't ready for a top 4 role this year. And we have the depth to replace him on the bottom pairing.
How many rookie defensemen jump into their team's Top 4? On contenders yet?

Quote:
You mentioned we don't have any other dynamic D aside from Letang if Despres is moved. We moved Goligoski two years ago with Orpik/Martin/Michalek/Lovejoy/Engelland on our roster to replace him. I doubt that stops Shero from filling a hole on Sid's line.
When we moved Goligoski, Kunitz was our only top 6 winger. That's no longer the case.

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01-27-2013, 02:47 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Man...he plays 70 games, scores around 20 goals and averages around 35-40 points per. That is mediocre production for a top 6 winger, low-scoring team or not. I won't get into semantics, but we are not acquiring a man currently producing at a good pace for a scoring winger, but hope he could do so here. Call that whatever you want.



Not that much. And yes, I understand Setoguchi was coming off an injury. He wasn't when he stopped producing in San Jose with an elite playmaking center.



How many rookie defensemen jump into their team's Top 4? On contenders yet?



When we moved Goligoski, Kunitz was our only top 6 winger. That's no longer the case.
Yeah, now Neal is the only guy you can trust nightly to be a top six winger.

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01-27-2013, 02:49 PM
  #384
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Honestly, THAT is how you know a deal is fair around here.



1. VERY funny

2. I can't see them dealing Niskanen, not without a top four replacement handy. ****, I never thought I'd see the day that I'd type that.
I think if the right deal came along, they may run a rotation of 7 defensemen. Have Orpik, Martin, and Letang handle a bulk of the mins, and rotate the 4 other guys throughout during the course of a game with 1 of those 3.

I also think Shero will deal for a guy like Jordan Leopold or someone of that nature for the playoffs, so it wouldn't be a long term thing.

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01-27-2013, 02:51 PM
  #385
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Yeah, now Neal is the only guy you can trust nightly to be a top six winger.
Right now, yes. And if the season ended right now, Patrick Marleau's trophy case would include an Art Ross, a Richard, a Hart, and a Lindsay too.

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01-27-2013, 02:53 PM
  #386
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I think if the right deal came along, they may run a rotation of 7 defensemen. Have Orpik, Martin, and Letang handle a bulk of the mins, and rotate the 4 other guys throughout during the course of a game with 1 of those 3.

I also think Shero will deal for a guy like Jordan Leopold or someone of that nature for the playoffs, so it wouldn't be a long term thing.
Agreed.

To go to a related subject, it would help Shero, if he dealt Niskanen, also to know how big the need would be on defense if he legitimately knew what he had in Despres and Bortuzzo.

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01-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #387
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So what are our thoughts on Paul Martin? I'd say he's been good the first 4 games, certainly no where near the liability he was last year. He's logging over 23 minutes a game.

With a pipeline full of defenseman who will likely be more dynamic than the current incarnation of Paul Martin, do you trade him if his value has been repaired, or do you save that for the off-season?

Here's where I'm at: I'm fine with trading prospects and picks, because winning the cup (THIS YEAR) is all that matters. You worry about next year next year, etc... when you are built like the Pens are. That said, I've really liked what I've seen from Despres, I think he's going to have a long, productive career in the NHL, and given that he's cost-controlled for a bit, I'd prefer that career took place in Pittsburgh.

Now, I'm not averse to trading him, but I'd like someone more substantial than Setoguchi.

So, Martin is a much better defenseman this year, but I think Despres is the better option long-term, but... yea.

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01-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Man...he plays 70 games, scores around 20 goals and averages around 35-40 points per. That is mediocre production for a top 6 winger, low-scoring team or not. I won't get into semantics, but we are not acquiring a man currently producing at a good pace for a scoring winger, but hope he could do so here. Call that whatever you want.



Not that much. And yes, I understand Setoguchi was coming off an injury. He wasn't when he stopped producing in San Jose with an elite center.



How many rookie defensemen jump into their team's Top 4? On contenders yet?



When we moved Goligoski, Kunitz was our only top 6 winger. That's no longer the case.
SJ missed Setoguchi last year. And he finished well there. Having 7 goals in the playoffs. He's struggled with inconsistency. So did Neal before he came here.

Our top 4 D is established this year. I wouldn't touch it. They're playing well. Letang was arguably our worst guy of the bunch recently, and that bodes well for us.

Bring in a vet for the bottom pairing at the deadline if need be. We'll see what we have in Bortuzzo sooner or later.

And Kunitz was our only top 6 winger. But unless you missed it, we don't have Jordan Staal anymore. Not as easy to score at ES. I fully expect Shero to make finding Sid's linemate a priority.

Niskanen seems to be Letang's partner for the time being. Despres is our best trade piece.

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Old
01-27-2013, 03:01 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
So what are our thoughts on Paul Martin? I'd say he's been good the first 4 games, certainly no where near the liability he was last year. He's logging over 23 minutes a game.

With a pipeline full of defenseman who will likely be more dynamic than the current incarnation of Paul Martin, do you trade him if his value has been repaired, or do you save that for the off-season?

Here's where I'm at: I'm fine with trading prospects and picks, because winning the cup (THIS YEAR) is all that matters. You worry about next year next year, etc... when you are built like the Pens are. That said, I've really liked what I've seen from Despres, I think he's going to have a long, productive career in the NHL, and given that he's cost-controlled for a bit, I'd prefer that career took place in Pittsburgh.

Now, I'm not averse to trading him, but I'd like someone more substantial than Setoguchi.

So, Martin is a much better defenseman this year, but I think Despres is the better option long-term, but... yea.
Like whom?

One could argue, on paper, given where they were as players, that Seto for Despres is a better return than Neal/Nisky for Gogo.

I mean, Dallas threw Gogo right in as a #1. Minny would be hoping that Despres becomes a #3 and only can be counted on now for bottom line minutes.

What more do you think we get straight up for Despres?

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01-27-2013, 03:09 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Like whom?

One could argue, on paper, given where they were as players, that Seto for Despres is a better return than Neal/Nisky for Gogo.

I mean, Dallas threw Gogo right in as a #1. Minny would be hoping that Despres becomes a #3 and only can be counted on now for bottom line minutes.

What more do you think we get straight up for Despres?
Honestly, it's easier for me to decide on what to do for dinner with my wife than it is to pick out which top-6 winger might be available.

I understand the parallels between the Despres and Goligoski trades, but I believe they are different situations.

1) Neal was younger than Setoguchi

2) Goligoski was older than Despres

3) Goligoski was a UFA at the end of his contract, Despres will be JUST EXITING his ELC at the end of this contract.

4) Neal was inconsistent, but on an upward trend point production wise, when the Penguins acquired him. Setoguchi's production is going backwards.

5) I *believe* Neal was an RFA at the end of his last Dallas contract, and I *believe* Seto will be a UFA at the end of his current contract.

Penguins are going to need to find a way to have good players on good contracts if/when they re-sign Malkin and Letang. Part of that comes from guys like Despres, who will likely be in the top-4 by 2014/2015, but on cheap contracts.

So, I don't have a suggestion for who would be better than Seto, but I do think highly of Despres skill, age, and contract.

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01-27-2013, 03:17 PM
  #391
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If Shero doesn't want to move Despres for Setoguchi, how about Dumoulin for Seto?

It would allow Minny to keep him in Houston while calling up a either to replace Seto.

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01-27-2013, 03:21 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
If Shero doesn't want to move Despres for Setoguchi, how about Dumoulin for Seto?

It would allow Minny to keep him in Houston while calling up a either to replace Seto.
Thanks not happening.

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01-27-2013, 03:23 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Honestly, it's easier for me to decide on what to do for dinner with my wife than it is to pick out which top-6 winger might be available.

I understand the parallels between the Despres and Goligoski trades, but I believe they are different situations.

1) Neal was younger than Setoguchi

2) Goligoski was older than Despres

3) Goligoski was a UFA at the end of his contract, Despres will be JUST EXITING his ELC at the end of this contract.

4) Neal was inconsistent, but on an upward trend point production wise, when the Penguins acquired him. Setoguchi's production is going backwards.

5) I *believe* Neal was an RFA at the end of his last Dallas contract, and I *believe* Seto will be a UFA at the end of his current contract.

Penguins are going to need to find a way to have good players on good contracts if/when they re-sign Malkin and Letang. Part of that comes from guys like Despres, who will likely be in the top-4 by 2014/2015, but on cheap contracts.

So, I don't have a suggestion for who would be better than Seto, but I do think highly of Despres skill, age, and contract.
I think highly of Despres also. I think highly of all of the Pens top six prospects and of the need to have some of them work their way into the lineup for cap purposes. BUT, IMO, you have to balance that against the issue that the team COULD compete for the cup every year depending upon the willingness or lack thereof to take risks in terms of moving some of these assets even though the assets could (maybe even probably could) be worth more in 2-4 years. Not suggesting it's easy to know when to do it or for whom to do it, and I fully respect your position that Seto is not the guy for whom you do it.

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01-27-2013, 03:29 PM
  #394
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I think highly of Despres also. I think highly of all of the Pens top six prospects and of the need to have some of them work their way into the lineup for cap purposes. BUT, IMO, you have to balance that against the issue that the team COULD compete for the cup every year depending upon the willingness or lack thereof to take risks in terms of moving some of these assets even though the assets could (maybe even probably could) be worth more in 2-4 years. Not suggesting it's easy to know when to do it or for whom to do it, and I fully respect your position that Seto is not the guy for whom you do it.
listening to calgary fans (not their team) talk about Iginla this year makes me wonder if he'd FINALLY be available. If he is, obviously a no brainer to give up anyone on D not named Letang, that includes Despres.

Huge jump between Iginla and Setoguchi obviously, but I'd also be OK with someone in the middle. I'm just not convinced that Seto is going to be a 30-goal scorer. And I totally get what you mean by taking risks and gambling, and I do think they should, but I just need to come to terms with gambling with a 21-year old with a high ceiling

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01-27-2013, 03:33 PM
  #395
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I think highly of Despres also. I think highly of all of the Pens top six prospects and of the need to have some of them work their way into the lineup for cap purposes. BUT, IMO, you have to balance that against the issue that the team COULD compete for the cup every year depending upon the willingness or lack thereof to take risks in terms of moving some of these assets even though the assets could (maybe even probably could) be worth more in 2-4 years. Not suggesting it's easy to know when to do it or for whom to do it, and I fully respect your position that Seto is not the guy for whom you do it.
Right. I'm not averse to dealing Despres for the right winger upgrade. Setoguchi just has too many question marks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
SJ missed Setoguchi last year. And he finished well there. Having 7 goals in the playoffs. He's struggled with inconsistency. So did Neal before he came here.

Our top 4 D is established this year. I wouldn't touch it. They're playing well. Letang was arguably our worst guy of the bunch recently, and that bodes well for us.

Bring in a vet for the bottom pairing at the deadline if need be. We'll see what we have in Bortuzzo sooner or later.

And Kunitz was our only top 6 winger. But unless you missed it, we don't have Jordan Staal anymore. Not as easy to score at ES. I fully expect Shero to make finding Sid's linemate a priority.

Niskanen seems to be Letang's partner for the time being. Despres is our best trade piece.
We have a lot of valuable, less NHL-ready trade pieces, and I'm sure there are a lot of more valuable, consistent wingers out that will be available come trade deadline than Setoguchi.

Too many questions for Seto, and too few tangible results for the last 3 seasons. Despres may well be our best trade piece, and if he is, I wouldn't be moving him for a wild card like DS.

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01-27-2013, 03:36 PM
  #396
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listening to calgary fans (not their team) talk about Iginla this year makes me wonder if he'd FINALLY be available. If he is, obviously a no brainer to give up anyone on D not named Letang, that includes Despres.

Huge jump between Iginla and Setoguchi obviously, but I'd also be OK with someone in the middle. I'm just not convinced that Seto is going to be a 30-goal scorer. And I totally get what you mean by taking risks and gambling, and I do think they should, but I just need to come to terms with gambling with a 21-year old with a high ceiling
There's been a lot of talk about him on the trade forum at different times and a thread where 'consensus' between fans of both teams was Iginla for Despres + 1st.

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01-27-2013, 03:37 PM
  #397
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Right. I'm not averse to dealing Despres for the right winger upgrade. Setoguchi just has too many question marks.



We have a lot of valuable, less NHL-ready trade pieces, and I'm sure there are a lot of more valuable, consistent wingers out that will be available come trade deadline than Setoguchi.

Too many questions for Seto, and too few tangible results for the last 3 seasons. Despres may well be our best trade piece, and if he is, I wouldn't be moving him for a wild card like DS.
Uh, I was saying that I respected IcedCapp's evaluation of Seto, not yours . . .

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01-27-2013, 03:38 PM
  #398
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Uh, I was saying that I respected IcedCapp's evaluation of Seto, not yours . . .
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01-27-2013, 03:41 PM
  #399
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I'm curious what it'd take to get Chris Stewart out of STL, but STL doesn't need anything. That doesn't work into any team's favor as they can really ask an arm and a leg.

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01-27-2013, 03:42 PM
  #400
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What is Lars Eller's offensive upside?

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