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Old
01-27-2013, 12:00 PM
  #251
Eddy Punch Clock
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Just a quick tour through the TML board
Yeah, I've been enjoying the meltdown over there this morning. A pretty good read; I recommend it.

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What's the term again? Schadenfreude? Man... delish.
Man, those Germans have a word for everything.


Oh, and after his one game punishment/conditioning/not ready for the NHL yet stint in the AHL, the Leaves have called Gardiner back up.

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01-27-2013, 12:26 PM
  #252
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Because Justin Schultz looks like a future hall of famer. Would have gone down as the best dman in Canuck history. Think Scott Niedermayer.

I would have told him the plan was to play him alongside Edler, with 1st unit PP time. If it didn't work out, alter course after the fact, with blue-chip asset in tow.

I love when we win the free agency sweepstakes we get Bill freaking Sweatt and when we're the bridesmaids the player goes to our rivals and looks poised to be a superstar. Essentially losing what amounts to the 1st overall pick in the draft.

Some things never change.
Calm down and relax.

hall of famer, scott niedermayer....you don't think the cart is going ahead of the horse here?

He's a good skilled player, who is great at driving the attack, when the plays is coming at him, he doesn't look anything like Niedermayer, granted he's a rookie pro, in an awful system.

I'm not ready to declare him an HoFer.

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Old
01-27-2013, 12:35 PM
  #253
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And Fabian Brunnstrom was a future HoFer too after his first four NHL games with 5 points and a hat-trick in his first NHL game.

Hall, Eberle, RNH and Schultz couldn't make the OKC win enough for playoffs, how are they going to do it for Edmonton? Takes more than putting up points to win games.

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01-27-2013, 12:58 PM
  #254
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For people wondering about NHL expansion, its happening (pure and simple). It's been on the league agenda the moment the lockout ended.
Quebec City? Seattle? Another team in Ontario?

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01-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #255
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Most posters on this board are pretty bitter, and as a result delusional, when it comes to Justin Shultz. If you had just read through threads on the Canucks board you would think that Jordan Schroeder was a much better prospect than Justin Shultz.

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01-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #256
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And Fabian Brunnstrom was a future HoFer too after his first four NHL games with 5 points and a hat-trick in his first NHL game.

Hall, Eberle, RNH and Schultz couldn't make the OKC win enough for playoffs, how are they going to do it for Edmonton? Takes more than putting up points to win games.
You need a solid bottom six (as well as goaltending) to win anything as the Bruins showed us 2011 (and even then, it took them seven games). That requires a solid GM - especially with a shrinking cap...and Horcoff is on their books for this and the next two seasons.

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Most posters on this board are pretty bitter, and as a result delusional, when it comes to Justin Shultz. If you had just read through threads on the Canucks board you would think that Jordan Schroeder was a much better prospect than Justin Shultz.
Even the best prospects can have their careers ruined or substantially altered (for the worse) if they are in a terrible system or have no idea about developing prospects. Just look at Dale Tallon at how he was handled here.

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Old
01-27-2013, 01:09 PM
  #257
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I would have liked to get Schultz as much as the next guy, but I think his upside is more a slightly bigger Lubomir Viznovsky than Scott $*&#ing Neidermayer. For my money, Niedermayer is the 2nd or 3rd best defenseman of the past twenty years: Lidstrom, then Pronger or Neidermayer, depending on your preference.

If anyone is likely to end up being that good in the league right now, my money is on Pietrangelo. Doughty has his moments too, but at this point he's so horrifyingly inconsistent that it's hard to know where he'll end up. Hard to project Schultz being good enough defensively at this point to be in the conversation: he could be, but there's no way to know that right now. He's also not going to shoot 15% all season. Even Shea Weber only shoots about 8% for his career.

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01-27-2013, 01:12 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
You need a solid bottom six (as well as goaltending) to win anything as the Bruins showed us 2011 (and even then, it took them seven games). That requires a solid GM - especially with a shrinking cap...and Horcoff is on their books for this and the next two seasons.
I think that's fair, but lots of teams have solid bottom six players: the Canucks did, too. Most teams that make it to the finals do. I would argue that the more important thing is to build a team that can win the shots/scoring chance battle and subsequently the goal differential.

After that you need a team with strong systems play so that it can absorb a few key injuries if necessary. Then it's all variance, baby. Cross your fingers and hope you stay healthy, hope you get some key high-water performances at the right time, and get the riot police ready...

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01-27-2013, 01:18 PM
  #259
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I think that's fair, but lots of teams have solid bottom six players: the Canucks did, too. Most teams that make it to the finals do.
But this is where the GM's skills come in - filling-in those spots with a lower cap. Tough enough for the Oilers they have Horcoff @ 5.5 million but their current management team hardly would inspire confidence (again, it takes a certain amount of "skill" to finish last/near last - especially since they were hardly a cap floor team like the Islanders).

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I would have liked to get Schultz as much as the next guy, but I think his upside is more a slightly bigger Lubomir Viznovsky than Scott $*&#ing Neidermayer. For my money, Niedermayer is the 2nd or 3rd best defenseman of the past twenty years: Lidstrom, then Pronger or Neidermayer, depending on your preference.
Assuming a "good environment", he might be a Erik Karlsson (which is hardly a bad thing). As you said, it's another thing to claim he'll be another Neidermayer (a guy solid at both ends of the ice).

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01-27-2013, 01:21 PM
  #260
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If you're a student in Columbus, you could pay as low as $10 to nab a lower level seat for the upcoming game w/ Dallas

https://oss.ticketmaster.com/html/gr...t=&customerID=

jesus when I do my winter work term I WILL look for a job over there lol

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Old
01-27-2013, 01:31 PM
  #261
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Assuming a "good environment", he might be a Erik Karlsson (which is hardly a bad thing). As you said, it's another thing to claim he'll be another Neidermayer (a guy solid at both ends of the ice).
Yeah, I could see that. But it would take more than just a good environment: Karlsson looks like a more dynamic offensive defesnseman than anyone I can think of in recent history. He's still working on rounding out his game, but he really drives offense. He's not a guy that just soaks up points, either; he actually creates a great deal of offense all on his own, like Mike Green during his couple great seasons -- only he's more creative and more physically dynamic (Green benefited from Ovechkin, whereas I'd argue Karlsson drives the offense. Plus Karlsson's skating allows him to recover from his risky play better than anyone I can think of...)

Karlsson is the same age as Schultz now. Schultz is going to have to develop on a pretty steep curve to become Karlsson. Karlsson is so good offensively he might end up as a HOFer even if he doesn't get any better defensively. Heck, he's already had a better offensive season than any authored by guys like Markov or Gonchar.

I'd like to see Schultz get through the full grind of an 82 game season before I'm ready to project too much. It's still so early, ya know?

Viznovsky did put up a 68 point season a few years ago, too. Which is why I want the Canucks to acquire him this year...

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01-27-2013, 01:52 PM
  #262
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Lots of good young defensemen who did not develop properly. Whether they were unable to (like Dion Phaneuf), or were too inconsistent and soft, (Tom Gilbert) or capitalized contractually with a brief period of stellar play (Dion again and add in Brian Campbell...maybe even Green) I'll also side with waiting to see what the Oilers and this kid can do.

Lots of tools in the tool box, but guys often regress in the wrong system.

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:09 PM
  #263
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Because Justin Schultz looks like a future hall of famer. Would have gone down as the best dman in Canuck history. Think Scott Niedermayer.

I would have told him the plan was to play him alongside Edler, with 1st unit PP time. If it didn't work out, alter course after the fact, with blue-chip asset in tow.

I love when we win the free agency sweepstakes we get Bill freaking Sweatt and when we're the bridesmaids the player goes to our rivals and looks poised to be a superstar. Essentially losing what amounts to the 1st overall pick in the draft.

Some things never change.
And it would send the wrong message to his future team mates who bought into a different message.

If theres one thing ive learned playing team sports is you lose and win as a team.

Nevertheless im guessing it wasnt strictly an ice time thing though im sure the ability to hit his performance bonuses was a consideration.

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:17 PM
  #264
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
And Fabian Brunnstrom was a future HoFer too after his first four NHL games with 5 points and a hat-trick in his first NHL game.

Hall, Eberle, RNH and Schultz couldn't make the OKC win enough for playoffs, how are they going to do it for Edmonton? Takes more than putting up points to win games.
Too true.

He got bucket loads of talent and theres a good probability hell have a good career but that may not happen. And he may not be a significant enough of a piece to risk your team dynamics on. Points are definitely not everything.

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #265
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Uh oh Hodgson, Ward was your man there. 1-1 Caps vs. Sabres.

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01-27-2013, 02:34 PM
  #266
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Hodgson bad coverage there on Ward

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Old
01-27-2013, 02:37 PM
  #267
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Uh oh Hodgson, Ward was your man there. 1-1 Caps vs. Sabres.
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Hodgson bad coverage there on Ward
I'm glad I'm not the only one who follows Hodgson's every mistake.

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01-27-2013, 02:39 PM
  #268
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Lots of good young defensemen who did not develop properly. Whether they were unable to (like Dion Phaneuf), or were too inconsistent and soft, (Tom Gilbert) or capitalized contractually with a brief period of stellar play (Dion again and add in Brian Campbell...maybe even Green) I'll also side with waiting to see what the Oilers and this kid can do.

Lots of tools in the tool box, but guys often regress in the wrong system.
I actually think Dion Phaneuf is underrated these days. He's a good defenseman with elite physical tools. I think his problem in Toronto -- especially this season -- is that they have done a miserable job of building a defense around him. Why is Kosta playing 32 minutes last night with Phaneuf?

The Leafs needed in the worst way to overpay a guy like Garrison or Hamhuis to play on Phaneuf's left side. Phaneuf is a wildly more talented Kevin Bieksa: give him someone to make the safe play/cover for him, and Phaneuf could be a really important, rare piece in the NHL. He has a Shea Weber toolset; not as good, of course, but he could be close.

Just your typical lack of Burke management, really. Burke always gets a lot right but he's always too stubborn to "overpay" for a necessary piece, even if it's something his team desperately needs, making an overpayment reasonable. Literally the only time Burke has even been willing to do this is when it's a sure-fire guy available (Niedermayer types). When he finally did, with Kessel, he screwed it up by being too stubborn to make an offer sheet.

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01-27-2013, 02:42 PM
  #269
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It's not so much that Hodgson has bad positioning it is simply that he can not skate well enough or accelerate well enough to keep his positioning. His defensive game because of it is, to be frank, bad. He's going to find his icetime dropping if he doesn't pick it up on the defensive side of things.

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01-27-2013, 02:42 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
I'm glad I'm not the only one who follows Hodgson's every mistake.

I watch the Sabres every now and again, before Hodgson even went there. The sister franchise thing you know, but you can't help but notice a gaffe like that. It was on him.

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01-27-2013, 02:44 PM
  #271
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We're putting Justin Schultz in the HHoF already? Comparing him to Scott Niedermayer? ****ing really?

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01-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #272
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I actually think Dion Phaneuf is underrated these days. He's a good defenseman with elite physical tools. I think his problem in Toronto -- especially this season -- is that they have done a miserable job of building a defense around him. Why is Kosta playing 32 minutes last night with Phaneuf?

The Leafs needed in the worst way to overpay a guy like Garrison or Hamhuis to play on Phaneuf's left side. Phaneuf is a wildly more talented Kevin Bieksa: give him someone to make the safe play/cover for him, and Phaneuf could be a really important, rare piece in the NHL. He has a Shea Weber toolset; not as good, of course, but he could be close.

Just your typical lack of Burke management, really. Burke always gets a lot right but he's always too stubborn to "overpay" for a necessary piece, even if it's something his team desperately needs, making an overpayment reasonable. Literally the only time Burke has even been willing to do this is when it's a sure-fire guy available (Niedermayer types). When he finally did, with Kessel, he screwed it up by being too stubborn to make an offer sheet.


Phaneuf is underrated. He's better defensively than he "appears". Would I want him on this team? Tough call given past attitude issues. If they thought he could buy in, sure. If not, probably best to pass.

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01-27-2013, 02:49 PM
  #273
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Phaneuf is underrated. He's better defensively than he "appears". Would I want him on this team? Tough call given past attitude issues. If they thought he could buy in, sure. If not, probably best to pass.
Phaneuf is fine defensively, he's just not a guy you should be throwing out against SuperStars and expect him to shut them down. He's no #1 dman.

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01-27-2013, 02:52 PM
  #274
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who follows Hodgson's every mistake.
Well it's not hard to point them out when he's in the defensive zone.

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01-27-2013, 02:52 PM
  #275
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Phaneuf is fine defensively, he's just not a guy you should be throwing out against SuperStars and expect him to shut them down. He's no #1 dman.
Phaneuf is -8 already and has stood out like sore thumb on a number of goals against in the Leafs' first five games. He's terrible defensively in pretty much every sense other than his physicality, but even then that costs him because he's out of position or not focused (see the Tavares hit -> Islanders goal).

His offensive game is good, sure... I just don't think it's good enough to make up for his D.

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