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The Joe Flacco appreciation thread

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Old
01-25-2013, 02:35 AM
  #51
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One playoff run? He's been in the league 5 years and he's been to 3 conference finals and now a Superbowl. He's had at least one playoff win in every season.

Also, the Ravens didn't make the playoffs the year before Flacco was drafted, so I'm not sure how you can say that he took over a playoff team.

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01-25-2013, 10:13 AM
  #52
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And the year before that, the Ravens were 13-3 with an elderly Steve McNair. In 4 of the previous 8 seasons, the Ravens made the playoffs including a Super Bowl win. In that time they've had 2 defensive players of the year, an offensive player of the year and a defensive rookie of the year. The twenty years before Dalton was drafted, the Bengals had made the playoffs twice and picked #1 overall three times. And he's now taken them to back to back playoff seasons. Let's not act like the Ravens are still the Browns and the Bengals are anything but the Bengals.

Much better than some team stat like wins or AFC championship appearances, however, are metrics like completion percentage. Chad Pennington was brought up as a detractor, but that isn't valid because he had absolutely no arm. Most of the time he couldn't throw the ball 30 yards without floating it. Then injuries further derailed his career. Beyond the accuracy is also the fact that Dalton threw more touchdown passes in his second season than Flacco has in any of his five. He's also shown improvement from year one to year two while Flacco has largely remained stagnant for the last four.

Green may be the best on either team, but having two targets like Smith and Boldin trumps Andrew Hawkins as the Bengals' second option (the TEs are a wash). When comparing running backs, it's not even close; Flacco easily has more weapons.

Flacco steps his game up in the post season, no doubt about that. But to call him elite, or anything like that isn't accurate. He's an above average QB in line with a bunch of above average QBs, and stands to be passed pretty soon by a number of younger guys.

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01-25-2013, 12:44 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
One playoff run? He's been in the league 5 years and he's been to 3 conference finals and now a Superbowl. He's had at least one playoff win in every season.
Yes but up until last Sunday it was still Joe FlaccLOL to a lot of people cause he never got his team over the hump. That's why I say "1" playoff run.

Mark Sanchez got to back to back AFCCGs too.


Unless Flacco comes out and dominates next Sunday my opinion of him won't change very bunch. He's a mid-tier QB on a good team.


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Also, the Ravens didn't make the playoffs the year before Flacco was drafted, so I'm not sure how you can say that he took over a playoff team.
As WTF said maybe not literally a playoff team but a year removed from a 13-3 season with McNair. It wasn't like he was selected in the Top 10.

Regardless he still went into a much better situation than Dalton did.

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01-25-2013, 01:44 PM
  #54
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Flacco is a good QB, but has not elite. That said, he is still young and can elevate his game. He might squeeze into the bottom part of the top-ten, but that is just because everybody has to put a couple good-not-great guys into that top tier to find ten of them.

He is absolutely the best thing to happen for the Ravens-era franchise. But that says more about the QBs they have had since moving to Baltimore than anything else.

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01-25-2013, 11:03 PM
  #55
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You "lol"ed at another poster who said Dalton was better. I posted that stat and another post that summed up my opinion of Dalton/Flacco, which was that the guys are pretty even and that neither one is much better than the other. What is your opinion on that?
Touche. I thought you were that guy. Still, you didn't make an argument as much as just offered an opinion. The only reasoning you gave had to do with completion pct.

- In Flacco's first two seasons, his receivers were Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. In Flacco's second season, Ray Rice was his leading receiver! That isn't because Flacco sucked. It's because he didn't have anyone to throw to! Derrick Mason was very good, but he was a possession receiver. And when the guy on the other side of the field is friggin Mark Clayton... come on. Nobody was open, that's why Flacco was constantly checking down to RB and TE.

- In Dalton's first two season, he had A.J. Green, a No. 4 draft pick who runs a 4.4 and has already established himself as one of the best in the league. Thirty percent of Dalton's completions and 11/27 of his TDs went to Green this year.

You cannot say that any combination of receivers that Flacco has had at any point, not even now, are as good as A.J. Green. Boldin and Mason don't have the speed to compare. Torrey Smith? Come on.

Additionally, despite Flacco's pedestrian completion percentage, he doesn't throw a lot of picks (and never has going back to college days). Dalton threw 16 INTs this year, something Flacco has never done.

Flacco is the best deep-ball QB in the league. Dalton is not the best at anything in the league.

Throw in Flacco's five years of experience and that is why I lold. Dalton has proven nothing. Flacco has proven enough, and without A.J. Green.



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This is a terrible argument.
Yes, it is. That was my point.

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01-26-2013, 10:43 AM
  #56
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"He" didn't have a playoff run, his team of 50+ guys had playoff runs. He's never been even in the top 3 players on his own team.

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01-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #57
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if this isnt a playoff run for Flacco than I dont know what is for a QB.


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Old
01-26-2013, 04:21 PM
  #58
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Flacco has been playing better ever since Cam Cameron was fired..

Props for adjusting to what he wants to call put

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01-27-2013, 04:20 PM
  #59
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In the last year I have gained more appreciation for Flacco than ever. For a long time I thought of him much of the way we all thought of Mark Sanchez. On a very good team, didn't matter how much they won because he wasn't often the reason for it. Things changed for me starting with the Ravens run in the playoffs last year. Flacco threw a perfect pass to Lee Evans in the AFC championship game. It was just whacked out of his hands a split second before it was too late. That throw puts the Ravens in the Super Bowl. Cundiff then misses what should have been a lock cinch of a field goal to at least tie the game and give the Ravens another chance.

You couldn't hang that loss on Flacco last year. And this year, with the Ravens defense hampered all year there was more pressure placed on Flacco to win the games. In the postseason comes through against Manning and then Brady. Now he's in the Super Bowl. From what I have seen with my own eyes I feel he is more a product of his own talent rather then a product of the Ravens than ever before. Maybe he'll bomb in the Super Bowl next week. Or maybe he's riding the float with Mickey Mouse at Disney World the day after. Who knows? Either way, you can't deny what he's done for the team over the past couple of seasons and it is getting harder and harder to say Flacco isn't a big part of it anymore. Maybe he's not a top 5 QB right now (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan) but I don't think he's any worse than say Eli Manning at this moment (not career wise because of Eli's rings but at this very moment). That makes him no worse than a top 10. If he wins a Super Bowl, expect it to go higher. And yes, if the Ravens win he will be the MVP in my mind because unless you fell from an apple tree you've witnessed how important he's been on this run.

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01-27-2013, 04:53 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
In the last year I have gained more appreciation for Flacco than ever. For a long time I thought of him much of the way we all thought of Mark Sanchez. On a very good team, didn't matter how much they won because he wasn't often the reason for it. Things changed for me starting with the Ravens run in the playoffs last year. Flacco threw a perfect pass to Lee Evans in the AFC championship game. It was just whacked out of his hands a split second before it was too late. That throw puts the Ravens in the Super Bowl. Cundiff then misses what should have been a lock cinch of a field goal to at least tie the game and give the Ravens another chance.

You couldn't hang that loss on Flacco last year. And this year, with the Ravens defense hampered all year there was more pressure placed on Flacco to win the games. In the postseason comes through against Manning and then Brady. Now he's in the Super Bowl. From what I have seen with my own eyes I feel he is more a product of his own talent rather then a product of the Ravens than ever before. Maybe he'll bomb in the Super Bowl next week. Or maybe he's riding the float with Mickey Mouse at Disney World the day after. Who knows? Either way, you can't deny what he's done for the team over the past couple of seasons and it is getting harder and harder to say Flacco isn't a big part of it anymore. Maybe he's not a top 5 QB right now (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan) but I don't think he's any worse than say Eli Manning at this moment (not career wise because of Eli's rings but at this very moment). That makes him no worse than a top 10. If he wins a Super Bowl, expect it to go higher. And yes, if the Ravens win he will be the MVP in my mind because unless you fell from an apple tree you've witnessed how important he's been on this run.
WTF!?!??!


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01-27-2013, 05:43 PM
  #61
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WTF!?!??!

Who else do you put in there? Big Ben maybe? In all honesty I think to rank a player correctly you can't do a heat of the moment thing. Otherwise Kaepernick is a top 2 QB in the NFL right now. In my opinion, despite some playoff woes, Ryan has had enough elite seasons to be mentioned in the top 5 now. If we are solely using Super Bowl wins or Super Bowl MVPs then Dan Marino would have never been mentioned among the elite QBs. I think Ryan has done enough to get there by now.

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01-27-2013, 06:12 PM
  #62
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Who else do you put in there? Big Ben maybe? In all honesty I think to rank a player correctly you can't do a heat of the moment thing. Otherwise Kaepernick is a top 2 QB in the NFL right now. In my opinion, despite some playoff woes, Ryan has had enough elite seasons to be mentioned in the top 5 now. If we are solely using Super Bowl wins or Super Bowl MVPs then Dan Marino would have never been mentioned among the elite QBs. I think Ryan has done enough to get there by now.
Ryan has had enough elite seasons? What is that criteria, one? Ryan has finished top-5 in any meaningful stat all of once in his career. Good (not great) regular seasons and sub-par post-seasons do not make a QB elite.

Big Ben and Eli are FAR better QBs. If we are passing on just sporadic regular season success, then Rivers, Stafford and Romo have all either had higher peaks or longer runs of success than Ryan.

Ryan has done nothing to show he is an elite QB.


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01-27-2013, 09:26 PM
  #63
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Ryan has had enough elite seasons? What is that criteria, one? Ryan has finished top-5 in any meaningful stat all of once in his career. Good (not great) regular seasons and sub-par post-seasons do not make a QB elite.

Big Ben and Eli are FAR better QBs. If we are passing on just sporadic regular season success, then Rivers, Stafford and Romo have all either had higher peaks or longer runs of success than Ryan.

Ryan has done nothing to show he is an elite QB.
I disagree on that one. He certainly is in the mix for the 5th spot. It isn't exactly cut and dry here. Maybe the reliability of Big Ben would put him #5. But Romo, Rivers and Eli all are among the most inconsistent currently and even in the past. Let's not get started on how Eli bungled up the Giants season this year. Romo? I wouldn't bet on him with YOUR money. Rivers is a cross between these two. Ryan is certainly not as erratic as these QBs. He at least always has regular season success. Ryan has gone to two Pro Bowls so I think he's had more than one elite season. If you are asking me right now, yes, I think he can be in the top 5. When Eli is good he is good, but when he is bad he is just awful. The Giants lost to Atlanta 34-0 this year in case anyone forgot.

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01-27-2013, 10:16 PM
  #64
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I disagree on that one. He certainly is in the mix for the 5th spot. It isn't exactly cut and dry here. Maybe the reliability of Big Ben would put him #5. But Romo, Rivers and Eli all are among the most inconsistent currently and even in the past. Let's not get started on how Eli bungled up the Giants season this year. Romo? I wouldn't bet on him with YOUR money. Rivers is a cross between these two. Ryan is certainly not as erratic as these QBs. He at least always has regular season success. Ryan has gone to two Pro Bowls so I think he's had more than one elite season. If you are asking me right now, yes, I think he can be in the top 5. When Eli is good he is good, but when he is bad he is just awful. The Giants lost to Atlanta 34-0 this year in case anyone forgot.
Pro Bowl means a player is elite? Pro Bowl is complete garbage and means nothing. It is a popularity contest. Jeff *** Saturday made the Pro Bowl this season... he lost his starting job. That is all you need to know about the virtue of the Pro Bowl establishing elite status.

Again, this is the first year Ryan has ever finished in the top-5 for any noteworthy statistic and his has one career play-off win.

Eli's two Super Bowls and solid regular season success give him his merit. Yea, he lost to Ryan this year. Point? Last year, Manning crushed Ryan in the post-season. When it matters, Ryan can't hold a candle to Manning.

As for Romo and Rivers (3 and 4 Pro-Bowls respectively... since you value that), they have been nothing but regular seasons wonders... but have put up outstanding regular season numbers. All three of them fall into that same boat (1-play off win each). Only Romo and Rivers have accomplished far more in the regular season (though both have likely started their decline).

I do agree on one point, after the top few, it gets unsettled ( though Big Ben has absolutely earned his place among the elite). You have to pick between a cadre of flawed options. Manning's multiple rings give huge credibility. After him, you have to choose between a bunch of people who have only been successful in the regular season. But among them, you have several who have racked up impressive numbers (Romo, Stafford, Rivers). With Ryan, you have somebody who has neither racked up impressive numbers nor had meaningful success. Reliable and elite are not the same thing.

Ryan may yet develop into an elite player, but his resume consists of one noteworthy season performance to date. More to a point, with youngsters like RG3 and Wilson coming in and accomplishing all Ryan has done in his career and more as rookies, seeing Ryan rank among the top QBs of the league seems unlikely. IMO, what you see is what you get with Ryan: a good and consistent starting QB, but not one who can step up and carry a team or make the players around him appear better than they are. He will carry his weight, but not make up for other deficiencies. Case in point: to date, he hasn't.

Bottom line: listing Ryan alongside the likes of P.Manning, Rodgers, Brees and Brady makes him stand out like a sore thumb. He simply does not belong in the same sentence as those four what-so-ever.


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01-28-2013, 06:08 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Who else do you put in there? Big Ben maybe? In all honesty I think to rank a player correctly you can't do a heat of the moment thing. Otherwise Kaepernick is a top 2 QB in the NFL right now. In my opinion, despite some playoff woes, Ryan has had enough elite seasons to be mentioned in the top 5 now. If we are solely using Super Bowl wins or Super Bowl MVPs then Dan Marino would have never been mentioned among the elite QBs. I think Ryan has done enough to get there by now.
Matt Ryan is no more elite than Flacco is and lol at putting him in the top 5.

Matt friggin Schaub > Matt Ryan.

The Falcons play against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL.

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01-28-2013, 02:02 PM
  #66
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Matt friggin Schaub > Matt Ryan.
That's the most ridiculous post in the football forum.

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01-28-2013, 09:12 PM
  #67
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Matt Ryan is no more elite than Flacco is and lol at putting him in the top 5.

Matt friggin Schaub > Matt Ryan.

The Falcons play against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL.
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Pro Bowl means a player is elite? Pro Bowl is complete garbage and means nothing. It is a popularity contest. Jeff *** Saturday made the Pro Bowl this season... he lost his starting job. That is all you need to know about the virtue of the Pro Bowl establishing elite status.

Again, this is the first year Ryan has ever finished in the top-5 for any noteworthy statistic and his has one career play-off win.

Eli's two Super Bowls and solid regular season success give him his merit. Yea, he lost to Ryan this year. Point? Last year, Manning crushed Ryan in the post-season. When it matters, Ryan can't hold a candle to Manning.

As for Romo and Rivers (3 and 4 Pro-Bowls respectively... since you value that), they have been nothing but regular seasons wonders... but have put up outstanding regular season numbers. All three of them fall into that same boat (1-play off win each). Only Romo and Rivers have accomplished far more in the regular season (though both have likely started their decline).

I do agree on one point, after the top few, it gets unsettled ( though Big Ben has absolutely earned his place among the elite). You have to pick between a cadre of flawed options. Manning's multiple rings give huge credibility. After him, you have to choose between a bunch of people who have only been successful in the regular season. But among them, you have several who have racked up impressive numbers (Romo, Stafford, Rivers). With Ryan, you have somebody who has neither racked up impressive numbers nor had meaningful success. Reliable and elite are not the same thing.

Ryan may yet develop into an elite player, but his resume consists of one noteworthy season performance to date. More to a point, with youngsters like RG3 and Wilson coming in and accomplishing all Ryan has done in his career and more as rookies, seeing Ryan rank among the top QBs of the league seems unlikely. IMO, what you see is what you get with Ryan: a good and consistent starting QB, but not one who can step up and carry a team or make the players around him appear better than they are. He will carry his weight, but not make up for other deficiencies. Case in point: to date, he hasn't.

Bottom line: listing Ryan alongside the likes of P.Manning, Rodgers, Brees and Brady makes him stand out like a sore thumb. He simply does not belong in the same sentence as those four what-so-ever.
There is obviously some seperation after the top 4 QBs in the NFL. That I don't deny at all. Just because I may put Ryan in at #5 doesn't mean he has any right to be close to #4 because he doesn't. Those 4 are in a class amongst themselves. However, I thought Ryan's 2010 season was "elite". At least in the regular season. Throw in a 56-22-0 career record and there is no doubt that he can win and not only that he is almost always the central figure when Atlanta does win (something we never said about Sanchez and something that took Flacco a long time to do). If I am starting my team right now and I need to choose between Romo, Rivers and Ryan I choose Ryan without even thinking.

For example, Romo led the NFL in interceptions this year. He's a gunslinger. He throws the ball a lot. The only thing is it isn't as if he even has the high risk high reward return that someone such as Brett Favre had. Romo can just flat out have some awful games. He pumps a lot of TDs and yards, but he throws the game away in the same breathe too. Ditto for Rivers, in my opinion. I don't think Ryan is the cause of a loss quite like those two. With Eli there is the hit or miss thing. I know if I were Tom Coughlin I would be going nuts. Another guy that throws a ton of poorly timed interceptions. Manning is more of a feast or famine type of QB. I know when it comes to Pro-Line betting on the Giants is almost like a coin flip as to what kind of game Eli will have. You never know. I'll give him credit, when he is "on" he is lethal so maybe that puts him above Ryan currently. But the other two, and even Stafford, I wouldn't pick them on my team over Ryan right now at all.

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01-29-2013, 04:56 PM
  #68
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I would put ryan in that top 5.

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02-03-2013, 09:47 PM
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02-03-2013, 09:48 PM
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Meh, armpunts and Boldin.

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02-03-2013, 09:55 PM
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Flacco joins the Eli Manning/Big Ben tier of QB's just below elite group


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02-03-2013, 10:04 PM
  #72
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02-03-2013, 10:06 PM
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Be on the lookout for whichever QB says they're elite and/or the best QB in the league. Worked for Eli and Flacco

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02-03-2013, 10:25 PM
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Best single postseason run by a QB ever?

Thoughts?

Also, I'll say it again...Caldwell's playcalling was money in every meaningful game the Ravens have had ouside of the debut in that role vs. the Broncos.

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02-03-2013, 10:27 PM
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Flacco is a good QB, but has not elite. That said, he is still young and can elevate his game. He might squeeze into the bottom part of the top-ten, but that is just because everybody has to put a couple good-not-great guys into that top tier to find ten of them.
Anybody who can consistently throw deep like that is elite.

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