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Pierre Gauthier was terrible but...

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Old
01-27-2013, 06:38 PM
  #26
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Honestly, his hockey moves were actually decent when you look at it. Nothing great overall, but he made some good moves that are helping the team now.

He just ran the team in a completely bizarre manner with ridiculous secrecy and then a total lack of class.
Not secrecy, heaven forbid!

"No class" just like Subban I guess. I always hear this whole "no class" thing and then remember that the team was actually treated like a business for once and that is what got all the panties in a bunch.

If you can't stick to actual points than don't bother making up something so ridiculous.

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01-27-2013, 06:41 PM
  #27
DAChampion
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Yes Cammalleri was traded during a game.

When you have a trade deal you like, you pull the trigger. You don't give a creampuff like Cammalleri more opportunities to get injured.

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01-27-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Poile gave a 2nd for Andrei Kostitsyn and let him go in the offseason. This is usually what you see with rentals.
Moore was actually needed. AK was not.

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01-27-2013, 06:42 PM
  #29
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yes Cammalleri was traded during a game.

When you have a trade deal you like, you pull the trigger. You don't give a creampuff like Cammalleri more opportunities to get injured.
Not sure what there was to like about that deal. We get stuck with a worse player with a longer contract. Plus we only get a 2nd despite taking this bump on a log back.

At least it happened in the middle of a "can't lose game" and we fell in the standings because of it.

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01-27-2013, 06:43 PM
  #30
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I've always thought people exaggerated how bad his deals were.

Also, how is the Cammalleri trade horrendous? Bourque is looking better, the 2nd should be high and Holland is a decent prospect.

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01-27-2013, 06:45 PM
  #31
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Not sure what there was to like about that deal. We get stuck with a worse player with a longer contract. Plus we only get a 2nd despite taking this bump on a log back.
Bourque has a longer deal but it saved us cap space. You have people crying that we can't afford Subban right now because of a difference or 1 or 2 million, imagine that with Cammalleri's awful contract. Calgary's 2nd is basically a late first, and Holland at this point is the equivalent of a mid round pick.

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Old
01-27-2013, 06:46 PM
  #32
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He wasn't Houle bad, but he was bad. Also, it was the moves he didn't make that made him look bad as well. The Markov blunder...and then letting Hamr go and banking on Emelin and Diaz in their 1st years? Then he goes after a guy who no longer plays in the league in Campoli? Markov blunder? You should stay current and enducate yourself. He was told Markov would be ready to play last season, I understand that kinda torpedos your argument though.

How about at the trade deadline 2 years ago where Max was injured and we needed another forward. This guy gets Sopel and Mara...2 players who no longer play in the league then comes up with some stupid roof story as to why Halpern was on the 1st line? Sad you have to scrape so hard for this, try harder.

The fact that the team was soft and he did NOTHING to address it...even after the beatdown in beantown...then realizes a year later that we needed to get bigger and tougher? There is this new thing called a "salary cap" you should check it out.

Our bottom 6 has been a mess with him. Ya he shouldn't have been so busy trying to deal with the top 6, derp.

The Kaberle trade was absolutely terrible and now it's handcuffing us like I said it would. Nope, it really isn't

Halak deal was not good either. Waiting for young players to get better isn't your strong point but I am sure you will be back on the bandwagon when the time comes.

Lastly, he knew Martin's style and did not build a team that complimented his style. Terrible GM. Why build a team around a guy who doesn't belong in the NHL?

Emelin was in the system. Diaz is a good little player but not someone you praise a GM for getting. Cole deal...he offered more money and term than any other team. Really? Is that how free agency works?
The same response all Gauthier threads get. A few bones but no meat to any of these flimsy answers.

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01-27-2013, 06:46 PM
  #33
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bourque has a longer deal but it saved us cap space. You have people crying that we can't afford Subban right now because of a difference or 1 or 2 million, imagine that with Cammalleri's awful contract. Calgary's 2nd is basically a late first, and Holland at this point is the equivalent of a mid round pick.
Cap space? Please don't talk about cap space when PG decided to go out and get Kaberle...

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01-27-2013, 06:48 PM
  #34
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Not sure what there was to like about that deal. We get stuck with a worse player with a longer contract. Plus we only get a 2nd despite taking this bump on a log back.

At least it happened in the middle of a "can't lose game" and we fell in the standings because of it.
Go watch Cammalleri this year and tell me this again.

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01-27-2013, 06:50 PM
  #35
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Cap space? Please don't talk about cap space when PG decided to go out and get Kaberle...
The Kaberle trade was horrible, but it was made with the playoffs in mind. The Cammalleri trade...was not. And yes, it did save cap space, regardless of the stupid move PG made before that.

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01-27-2013, 06:51 PM
  #36
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The same response all Gauthier threads get. A few bones but no meat to any of these flimsy answers.
In comes the Gauthier fanboy.

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01-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #37
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Go watch Cammalleri this year and tell me this again.
It doesn't matter. I know his value last year was better than the crap we got for him.

I don't care how much you try to defend PG. He was a brutal GM. That's how he'll be remembered and it's well deserved. He sucked.

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01-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #38
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Go watch Cammalleri this year and tell me this again.
More points than the Bourque superstar.

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01-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #39
sharks9
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Cap space? Please don't talk about cap space when PG decided to go out and get Kaberle...
Nowhere near as bad as Gainey's cap management.

It's not even something we have to worry about with a buyout for this summer.

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01-27-2013, 06:52 PM
  #40
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Important to note that the players had no respect for him. Beat reporters were saying left and right that they players were making fun of him galore in the locker room. He will still be remembered as part of the brainthrust that brought Gomer Pyle in.

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Old
01-27-2013, 06:53 PM
  #41
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Not sure what there was to like about that deal. We get stuck with a worse player with a longer contract. Plus we only get a 2nd despite taking this bump on a log back.

At least it happened in the middle of a "can't lose game" and we fell in the standings because of it.
First, regardless of whether or not the trade was good, you have to agree that trading him during the game is the right move. Cammalleri is an elite injury player. He missed 16 games in 2011-2012, 15 games in 2010-2011, 17 games in 2009-2019, 19 games in 2007-08. Once you have a deal in place for Cammalleri that you think is good, you have to trade him, or you risk not being able to trade him at all.

Sure, Gauthier could have waited until the deadline to bid up that price, but there was a solid possibility Cammalleri could have become untradeable due to yet another injury. Once you have a satisfactory deal in place, you move imo.

Second, it's a good trade. We're getting a high second rounder in a deep draft. We're getting Patrick Holland who is equivalent to a 2nd rounder imo, and Rene Bourque is a decent gamble. I'd rather do the trade without Bourque involved, but maybe it was required. It must be very hard to unload a contract with a lot of term for an overpaid player.

Cammalleri is a player who is a 1st liner on a bad team and a 2nd liner on a good team. At 6 million dollars, he won't be a hot commodity.

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01-27-2013, 06:58 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It doesn't matter. I know his value last year was better than the crap we got for him.

I don't care how much you try to defend PG. He was a brutal GM. That's how he'll be remembered and it's well deserved. He sucked.
You don't you really don't, you don't even know his value THIS year. Go watch him play so you don't sound completely ignorant and bias against Gauthier.

I don't care how he is remembered by most hab fans, I stopped being impressed by their "hockey knowledge" a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
More points than the Bourque superstar.
At only 2X the price! STEAL! So much for your point about Kaberles "awful" salary.

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01-27-2013, 06:58 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cenzo_ View Post
He sucked ballz but he did get Yemelin to cross over and found and Signed Diaz.

That's all we can thank him for...

Cheers

Cenzo

bourque doesn't look so bad now either under a different coach...and calgary's 2nd rounder.

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:00 PM
  #44
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The Kaberle trade was horrible, but it was made with the playoffs in mind. The Cammalleri trade...was not. And yes, it did save cap space, regardless of the stupid move PG made before that.
I don't care what the hell the guy was thinking. It was a ridiculous move that saddled us with a blueliner who's overpaid and well past his prime.

On the one hand you only want to look at what saves cap space and on the other you want to ignore what caused the cap space problem in the first place? And dude, it's not that much of a savings. He saddled us with two players that we can't wait to get rid of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Nowhere near as bad as Gainey's cap management.

It's not even something we have to worry about with a buyout for this summer.
Gainey's cap management was great. Then somebody stole his brain and he went after Gomez and co. I didn't understand it then and don't understand it now. But this isn't the Gainey thread.

Your argument seems to be... sure PG is like lung cancer but Gainey is like brain cancer. Well, none of us want either one so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
First, regardless of whether or not the trade was good, you have to agree that trading him during the game is the right move. Cammalleri is an elite injury player. He missed 16 games in 2011-2012, 15 games in 2010-2011, 17 games in 2009-2019, 19 games in 2007-08. Once you have a deal in place for Cammalleri that you think is good, you have to trade him, or you risk not being able to trade him at all.

Sure, Gauthier could have waited until the deadline to bid up that price, but there was a solid possibility Cammalleri could have become untradeable due to yet another injury. Once you have a satisfactory deal in place, you move imo.

Second, it's a good trade. We're getting a high second rounder in a deep draft. We're getting Patrick Holland who is equivalent to a 2nd rounder imo, and Rene Bourque is a decent gamble. I'd rather do the trade without Bourque involved, but maybe it was required. It must be very hard to unload a contract with a lot of term for an overpaid player.

Cammalleri is a player who is a 1st liner on a bad team and a 2nd liner on a good team. At 6 million dollars, he won't be a hot commodity.
Trading him during the game is not the right move. I'm not even going to elaborate on the stupidity of trading a guy during a game, it speaks for itself. You want to disagree that is your right. The trade was panned when it happened, many of us wrote at length on how stupid it was and this isn't one of those things that I really feel like re-hashing.

I will just say that PG pretty much sucked. As bad as Houle? Maybe not but he wasn't good.

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:01 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think Emelin was coming no matter what.

Okay. I hope he likes the pressbox. Not all his fault but he wasn't exactly the best we could've done. You say we got the best we could? I'll disagree. I will give PG credit for at least going after a prospect though.

Are you looking forward to three more years of Bourque? And there's no way we couldn't have gotten a first for Cammy. The 31st might be great but we still won't have got what we could've.

Teams showcase players they're going to trade all the time. I don't know why we couldn't do this. And didn't PG start actually downplaying him in the press? I can't remember this clearly and I could be wrong but I seem to remember that.

Anyways, I've ripped PG many times in the past and I stand by what I've said. He was an absolutely terrible GM. Best thing he did for us was unintentionally lead us to last place so we got Galchenyuk. So basically, the best thing about him was his incompetence.
Eller was a recent 1st round pick (13th overall) who was on track development wise. I'm shocked you of all people don't think this is a good return. Whether he works out or not doesn't change Eller's value at the time which was quite high.

If you really think 15-20 games has a huge impact on someones trade value then I don't know what to say. I would think most people would look at the last few years not his last few games

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01-27-2013, 07:03 PM
  #46
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You don't you really don't, you don't even know his value THIS year. Go watch him play so you don't sound completely ignorant and bias against Gauthier.

I don't care how he is remembered by most hab fans, I stopped being impressed by their "hockey knowledge" a long time ago.
I am biased against Gauthier. That's what happens when your GM ****s up your team. You become biased against him. If he'd done a good job I'd be biased for him. But he didn't. He sucked ass.

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01-27-2013, 07:04 PM
  #47
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Gauthier wasn't the worst GM after all...

Only Bergevin has to sign Subban!

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01-27-2013, 07:04 PM
  #48
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Eller was a recent 1st round pick (13th overall) who was on track development wise. I'm shocked you of all people don't think this is a good return. Whether he works out or not doesn't change Eller's value at the time which was quite high.

If you really think 15-20 games has a huge impact on someones trade value then I don't know what to say. I would think most people would look at the last few years not his last few games
I wasn't a huge fan of the trade when it happened. But I did credit PG for at least going after a prospect he believed in. I just felt we could've gotten more and said so at the time. Certainly not a terrible move but I wouldn't say a great trade either. I don't really fault him for this but I wouldn't classify this as a good move for us.

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01-27-2013, 07:07 PM
  #49
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No GM, even houle or milbury, is without some moves/decisions that worked out.

Gauthier screwed up, or at best got the bare minimum, all of his big moves.

But worse, much worse, is that he had a big role in building the culture that led to last years absolute failure.

Getting gally and colberg could very well be the highlight of his tenure... Nuff said

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01-27-2013, 07:08 PM
  #50
Sorinth
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yees, but it's better to keep a rental if he fits, see Los Angeles and Jeff Carter, or Boston with Rick Peverley.
Carter isn't exactly a rental but I get your point. It should be noted in Moore's case he's always overvalued himself in contract negotiations.

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