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Kevin Shattenkirk vs Erik Johnson

View Poll Results: Who's the better player?
Kevin Shattenkirk 94 52.51%
Erik Johnson 85 47.49%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-27-2013, 06:34 PM
  #51
OCTA8ON
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
Let's turn this around, people only voted for Shatty because he had more points.

Johnsons only issue is getting the point shot through.
1. No, shattenkirk is better defensively as well. He was a +20 last season.

2. EJ having trouble getting his shot through isn't the only reason people are calling him a bust. How can you say that that's his only problem?...

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01-27-2013, 06:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
1. No, shattenkirk is better defensively as well. He was a +20 last season.

2. EJ having trouble getting his shot through isn't the only reason people are calling him a bust. How can you say that that's his only problem?...
Watch out! Using a stat that proves how good defensively a player is (on ice for GF and GA) is an automatic "lost the arguement" around here.

EJ has many problems and defense is one of them. These people why it's just his shot obviously haven't been watching both players.

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01-27-2013, 06:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
This. He must be sleeping or something. We also need more Eskimo44 here to tell us just how bad EJ is.
Yes i am a terrible person for calling him a second pairing defenseman with potential. Just awful. You can really tell i'm a dirtbag because i keep insisting on citing stats and other objective sources. Heck i do greasy things like cite articles Avalanche fans gave to me in defense of Johnson: http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...to-redemption/

Let's be honest here Johnson is not a very polished defensive player, and his offensive results have been mediocre for the most part (especially considering his usage). In saying that i'm also well aware of the fact that he's just about to turn 25, so he may still very reasonably turn a corner and become a top pairing guy (it could be this season for all i know). His skillset is terrific and he certainly shows glimpses of top level abilities. My only point has been he's still got a long ways to go as of last season and has been far from living up to the promise he had on his draft day. When the pairing of him and Hejda struggled against top line opponents last season it wasn't Hejda who they stopped hard matching against the other teams best, it was their "#1 defenseman" Johnson. Johnson has a two way skill set but neither the offense or defense is that of a top pairing guy. There is little shame in a 23/24 year old dman struggling against the Datsuyk/Thornton/Sedin's of the world, but he shouldn't get a free pass for it either. He did struggle against top lines and the coach did then choose to shelter him from top lines, that's reality. Me pointing that out is not paramount to some kind of vendetta against Johnson. If you'd like to keep inviting/bating me to debate the issue (like you just did) know that i'm confident enough in the validity of what i'm saying to return your attacks with a response. The fact that my response will be outlining a position you apparently find so undesirable, makes it seem odd to me that you would provoke it. But hey that's fine by me, i'm game.

In response to the op: I take Shattenkirk. He seems to be the better offensive player and his defensive game has been solid for his role, which is as a top 4 defenseman. I don't see how anyone could make an objective argument that Johnson was the superior defensive player at evenstrength last season. Heck Shattenkirk even played a little bit more on the PK per game last year.


Last edited by Eskimo44: 01-27-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 06:58 PM
  #54
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EJ, but this has been beaten to death. Move the **** on already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
1. No, shattenkirk is better defensively as well. He was a +20 last season.

2. EJ having trouble getting his shot through isn't the only reason people are calling him a bust. How can you say that that's his only problem?...
Lovin' that +/- argument.

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FilthyNote View Post
Good lord! I will never understand this place and their obsession with Johnson. The guy isn't that great and is far from a #1 overall. He completely underperforms in every aspect and I don't care if nobody believes that. I have watched EJ play A LOT before and during his NHL career on all teams. He just doesn't have it. He will be an NHL player for a long time but he is not on the same level as Shattenkirk.

I think people just see that he was drafted #1 overall and really want to believe his game is good even if they haven't seen him play.

I don't like this whole "Each player fits their teams needs better" cop-out. Shattenkirk is the better player. He played good on the avs and he has played great on the Blues. EJ has underperformed his entire NHL career and in doing so isn't as good as Shatty on both end of the ice. EJ's passing is questionable, he is slow, and very tenative with the puck. Not nearly as good along the boards as Shatty. EJ CAN hit hard but seldom does it.

I am not sure if it is just people believe what Av's fans WANT to believe as oppose to reality but Shatty blows EJ out of the water and it isn't even close.
This is why I can't take you seriously.

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:26 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
Let's turn this around, people only voted for Shatty because he had more points.

Johnsons only issue is getting the point shot through. If that's his only weakness Avs fans can deal with it. He's been impressive this year and I think if his play continues people will stop making uninformed decisions about his play. Last sharks game the announcers were even saying how impressed they were with his game.
That has always been the frustrating thing with Johnson...He looks like he puts it all together and then couple games later he is back to being avg...Granted I have always been a huge EJ fan and never wanted to admit that he was a horrible pick at number 1...Having said that I think he is a good dmen but I just dont see him every beig what he was projected and he will most likely always be a 30-40 point high end number 2 guy or a number 1 on a weak team...And I know Avs fans are going to come in and tell me how he is so much different on the Avs then the Blues but the games I have watched he seems to have improved a bit but he is still mostly the same guy which is a high end number 2.

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01-27-2013, 07:32 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by FilthyNote View Post
Watch out! Using a stat that proves how good defensively a player is (on ice for GF and GA) is an automatic "lost the arguement" around here.

EJ has many problems and defense is one of them. These people why it's just his shot obviously haven't been watching both players.
You clearly haven't seen him recently. Btw its nice to see you go full retard whenever you post, its one of my greatest joys on hf

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01-27-2013, 07:35 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
You clearly haven't seen him recently. Btw its nice to see you go full retard whenever you post, its one of my greatest joys on hf
Since the trade I have watched as many Avs games as I could because I really hope EJ turns into what he should...Having said that what exactly has EJ gotten so much better at since joining the Avs in your opinion? Or any Avs fan that wants to answer.

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01-27-2013, 07:44 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
That has always been the frustrating thing with Johnson...He looks like he puts it all together and then couple games later he is back to being avg...Granted I have always been a huge EJ fan and never wanted to admit that he was a horrible pick at number 1...Having said that I think he is a good dmen but I just dont see him every beig what he was projected and he will most likely always be a 30-40 point high end number 2 guy or a number 1 on a weak team...And I know Avs fans are going to come in and tell me how he is so much different on the Avs then the Blues but the games I have watched he seems to have improved a bit but he is still mostly the same guy which is a high end number 2.
Atleast your being reasonable. I am really looking forward to seeing how he performs this season. If he is consistent than I think he's a number one.

He was great last year until suffering an Injury. I hope that was what was holding him back the past season. He's still quite young and D-men in the past have been known to develop much later.


Last edited by avsfan09: 01-27-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 07:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Since the trade I have watched as many Avs games as I could because I really hope EJ turns into what he should...Having said that what exactly has EJ gotten so much better at since joining the Avs in your opinion? Or any Avs fan that wants to answer.
Decisions. Strong in the corners good outlet passes. He's been steady for us.

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01-27-2013, 07:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Since the trade I have watched as many Avs games as I could because I really hope EJ turns into what he should...Having said that what exactly has EJ gotten so much better at since joining the Avs in your opinion? Or any Avs fan that wants to answer.
He hasn't. He's our worst player can't believe he plays 23+ minutes a night

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01-27-2013, 07:56 PM
  #62
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Shattenkirk AINEC

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01-27-2013, 08:33 PM
  #63
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He hasn't. He's our worst player can't believe he plays 23+ minutes a night
Ok...And here I thought I was actually trying to hold a legit discussion...This I guess is the perfect example that all fan bases have these types.

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01-27-2013, 08:43 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Shattenkirk AINEC
Keep up the good work. Nice to see intelligent posts like this from you.

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01-27-2013, 08:45 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Ok...And here I thought I was actually trying to hold a legit discussion...This I guess is the perfect example that all fan bases have these types.
No, its just Avs fans being sick of polls/threads like this. People on HF have some sort of weird fascination of bashing EJ. Its constant. It's nothing against you. Avs fans are just sick of people who don't watch the games and ignore the situation EJ is in, look at the stats, and then procede to bash him.

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01-27-2013, 08:49 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
No, its just Avs fans being sick of polls/threads like this. People on HF have some sort of weird fascination of bashing EJ. Its constant. It's nothing against you. Avs fans are just sick of people who don't watch the games and ignore the situation EJ is in, look at the stats, and then procede to bash him.
Well there are a lot of Blues fans in this thread that have said EJ is the better player...All fan bases have people like that guy as well as people who bash EJ...People have bashed EJ for years and that goes back to his days on the Blues...Its the same as the people who bash current Blues players due to the system etc...I dont particularly feel the need to be a a** about it to people who are having a legit conversation...But I get what you are saying.

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01-27-2013, 09:01 PM
  #67
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Blues fans: If EJ was a natural lefty, would you guys want him on your team more than Shattenkirk? Just curious

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01-27-2013, 09:04 PM
  #68
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Avs fans do a great job of talking this guy up. Truth is he's not a top pairing guy on any team with a decent defense. He's underperformed in every year he's played except his rookie year. He's still young though so he could turn it around. However I doubt he does... He makes way too many dumb decisions.

Shattenkirk isn't a top pairing guy on any decent defense either, but he's an excellent 2nd pairing guy. He's extremely smart and makes up for his small size with his incredible stick work.

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01-27-2013, 09:10 PM
  #69
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Blues fans: If EJ was a natural lefty, would you guys want him on your team more than Shattenkirk? Just curious
No and that is only because this team has Polak and AP who are good shutdown guys...Shatty brings a whole different level of offense to this team then EJ could or did...If the team had a different makeup then its a different story...Having AP as our number 1 allows the luxury of taking a player like Shatty over EJ based on teem needs...He is also decent in his own zone...Now if we had another puck mover besides AP on the team then I would take EJ back and be comtorable not having to use him on the PP and just stick him out there on the PK and be a very good defensive dmam.

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01-27-2013, 09:10 PM
  #70
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Johnson-Pietriangelo wouldve been great.

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01-27-2013, 09:13 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Red08 View Post
Avs fans do a great job of talking this guy up. Truth is he's not a top pairing guy on any team with a decent defense. He's underperformed in every year he's played except his rookie year. He's still young though so he could turn it around. However I doubt he does... He makes way too many dumb decisions.
Statistically he's "underperformed", but for the past two years with the Avs he's been our number 1 and most are more than happy with him.

He's not an elite number 1 by any means, but currently he's a defensive rock. I hope he takes his offense to the next level, which he has all the tools to do

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01-27-2013, 09:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by MrFunnyWobbl View Post
Johnson-Pietriangelo wouldve been great.
I do think that if EJ could be playing with AP right now he would be put in the best position to shine...Hell AP makes scrubs look good a lot of the time and every partner he has played with has been garbage...Have a guy like EJ who makes some boneheaded plays but also can make some phenominal plays would do wonders for EJ...He would know that if he f's up a play his partner is there to pick up the slack.

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01-27-2013, 10:43 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
EJ, but this has been beaten to death. Move the **** on already.



Lovin' that +/- argument.
Told ya! Didn't take long for somebody to bite LOL!

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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
This is why I can't take you seriously.
Good, I don't live my life to impress you.

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Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
You clearly haven't seen him recently. Btw its nice to see you go full retard whenever you post, its one of my greatest joys on hf
So instead of discussing you just resort to name-calling. You must be popular here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
Blues fans: If EJ was a natural lefty, would you guys want him on your team more than Shattenkirk? Just curious
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
Statistically he's "underperformed", but for the past two years with the Avs he's been our number 1 and most are more than happy with him.

He's not an elite number 1 by any means, but currently he's a defensive rock. I hope he takes his offense to the next level, which he has all the tools to do
And NOW you agree with me after you decided you must name-call. Sheesh.

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01-27-2013, 11:35 PM
  #74
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Just like every other time this thread has been created...Shattenkirk gets underrated defensively...imagine Dan. Boyle...that's Kevin Shattenkirk. Fierce, speedy, physical for a small guy, with a defensive stick from @#$%.

EJ gets the nod as the better defender in my book due to his physical game...offensively, this isn't near as close.

I've always liked EJ, and hope he continues to grow for the Avs, but until he becomes consistent on a game by game basis (vs. his current week by week), I have to go with Shattenkirk (who would be a #2 on the Blues were it not for his handedness and Hitch's preference to load up two sets of d-men).

EDIT: Just realized that I haven't watched EJ play this year, so perhaps he has his consistency (specifically his defensive positioning miscues) under wraps...?


Last edited by taylord22: 01-27-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 11:59 PM
  #75
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Another 2 points tonight making that 8 for Shattenkirk along with airtight defense.

But Johnson is a better two-way (meaning good at offense and defense, of course) with his 1.

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