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Nathan MacKinnon vs Jonathan Drouin

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Old
01-25-2013, 04:45 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by CBJFan19 View Post
CLB would probably take Zadorov at 10 and pair him up with Murray for the next 10-15 years
Amazing how 1 draft can change a teams future so easily.

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01-25-2013, 05:12 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Amazing how 1 draft can change a teams future so easily.
CLB would have a pretty nice future, a deep and really talented D group
Jenner, JAM, Barkov, Lindholm/Manahan, Atkinson, Anisimov, Brassard, Dubinsky all under 27

would just need a solid goalie or hope Bobrovsky or Dansk develop to be pretty good

but im sure the Kings will start winning eventually but im sure CBJ will keep losing too and have a great shot at the #1 pick

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01-25-2013, 05:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Stephenson84 View Post
This is so incorrect IMO. Drouin's game will translate just fine to the NHL. Through the first half of this year I've seen MacKinnon being taken out of games much more then Drouin. Johnny always finds a way to impact the game positively.

As for trying to rate attributes. Both have great vision, but Drouins is on a wholeeeee other level. Very different players, both are great.No way of knowing who has a better career, they're 17 lol.
Here's my take on Drouin's "vision".

Loads of his "amazing" behind the back/drop passes get picked off or go to nobody which results in a rush the other way. Sure he can dangle on the rush, but I've yet to see him make the simple play and get it deep or reverse behind the net. Always always does the dangle or some through the legs pass which is high risk/high reward hockey. That doesn't cut it in the NHL. MacKinnon's puck control and KNOW-HOW to make the simple play make him a more viable option in the NHL.

At least he'll be there or be more effective sooner. He's a bit safer too. I do like Drouin though. He's massively entertaining, I just wish he was smarter.

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01-25-2013, 08:35 PM
  #29
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MacKinnon has more strength and skating power. He has elite puck controlling skills and vision.

Drouin has elite hands and vision.

Mac's more of an all-around, number one two-way center kind of guy.

Drouin's more of a skill-full playmaker/sniper first-line winger.

I think Mac's more that type of a player that every team wants, but Drouin can lead a team offensively. I've said before that they kind of remind me of Toews/Kane at that age.

And yes, Mac is that good defensively.

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01-25-2013, 09:04 PM
  #30
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Drouin doesn't even look like the same player after the WJC, seems like his skills have gone to his head.

Probably had 7 turnovers tonight vs a very weak sherbrooke team but since he picked up 2 pts people will think he played great

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01-25-2013, 09:19 PM
  #31
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It's definitely gone to his head a bit. He's constantly going for that highlight reel play to get attention.

Yes, you had a great performance. Yes, you're team ****ing sucked.

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01-26-2013, 07:55 AM
  #32
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I'm going to see the lot vs Quebec tonight. Will be a test of both team's defence. MacAulay's line probably going to get a lot of work.

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01-26-2013, 08:35 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Breakfast of Champs View Post
Drouin doesn't even look like the same player after the WJC, seems like his skills have gone to his head.

Probably had 7 turnovers tonight vs a very weak sherbrooke team but since he picked up 2 pts people will think he played great
As I was watching the game last night, I said "Drouin is reading too many of his press clippings"... he is turning over the puck on even basic passes right now because he is trying to make everything look slick. It was one thing when he would try highlight reel or low % passes and turn it over (high risk, high reward)... but last night he was just giving the puck to Sherbrooke on simple passes. He needs to simplify his game again. Like MacKinnon, they both need to turn it on/off at the right time, not be 120% highlight reel anytime they have the puck.

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01-26-2013, 11:49 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NS Bluenoser View Post
As I was watching the game last night, I said "Drouin is reading too many of his press clippings"... he is turning over the puck on even basic passes right now because he is trying to make everything look slick. It was one thing when he would try highlight reel or low % passes and turn it over (high risk, high reward)... but last night he was just giving the puck to Sherbrooke on simple passes. He needs to simplify his game again. Like MacKinnon, they both need to turn it on/off at the right time, not be 120% highlight reel anytime they have the puck.
That's what MacKinnon was like vs Quebec in playoffs last year. He kept trying the ol' "skate as fast as possible down wing - an entire zone ahead of the rest of the team - try the inside out deke - get knocked over and lose puck - repeat as needed"

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01-26-2013, 12:04 PM
  #35
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So you're asking us who's going to have the better career between two 17 year olds? By the way Drouin is not at all a late bloomer but just someone who took his time before entering the Q and it paid off for him. Just seeing him in the playoffs last year anyone could've predicted him going in the top 5.

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01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
  #36
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Columbus could have both+Zadorov if the season ended today.

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01-26-2013, 03:30 PM
  #37
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Columbus could have both+Zadorov if the season ended today.
Obviously not going to happen. But that would be like getting Toews, Kane, and Leddy in the same draft.

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01-26-2013, 03:34 PM
  #38
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Drouin is smoother offensively, with better hands and better vision. MacKinnon is stronger, more explosive, goes harder to the net and to the danger areas, while still being extremely skilled. I'd give the edge to MacKinnon, I think he'll be the better NHLer when it's all said and done, but I can see it going either way, they're relatively close.

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01-26-2013, 11:19 PM
  #39
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****ing hell the game tonight was "interesting". Just a **** show of sloppy play. Can't even make a proper analysis. Drouin throwing the puck around, got a nice goal by going to the net + a lucky assist though (Frk's got a monster shot). MacKinnon just 20m ahead of his teammates at all time. Had to hold up and seek a pass that was read every time.

Just brutal. Never did anyone opt for the simple play. Dunno if it's their system or what, but it reminded me of Canada in the WJHC. "Hey let's put the puck to the D instead of down low" "Let's carry over the line instead of get it low" just no forechecking. bunch of sloppy passes to the D. Halifax's D is already borderline bad, thank **** for Fucale, and they'd often clear the offensive zone themselves.


I hope this was a one off

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01-26-2013, 11:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM17 View Post
Here's my take on Drouin's "vision".

Loads of his "amazing" behind the back/drop passes get picked off or go to nobody which results in a rush the other way. Sure he can dangle on the rush, but I've yet to see him make the simple play and get it deep or reverse behind the net. Always always does the dangle or some through the legs pass which is high risk/high reward hockey. That doesn't cut it in the NHL. MacKinnon's puck control and KNOW-HOW to make the simple play make him a more viable option in the NHL.

At least he'll be there or be more effective sooner. He's a bit safer too. I do like Drouin though. He's massively entertaining, I just wish he was smarter.
I am not sure that you understand what vision and hockey IQ mean in hockey. When people praise Drouin's vision, by no means to they refer to a few dangles and behind the back passes (those fall in the category of creativity). MacKinnon has very good vision but the fact is that in this draft class, Drouin's vision is in a class of its own. Thus, saying that Drouin's vision is superior to that of MacKinnon (which it is) is not meant to be demeaning to MacKinnon's attributes.

Find me one scout, one hockey executive or coach or one of the few internet scouting services that feel that MacKinnon's vision is better than Drouin's or that said "vision" translates better to the NHL. It just does not.

I still have MacKinnon (very) slightly ahead of Drouin even though the gap has been closing rather quickly. Still, despite that, I feel that your analysis of Drouin is definitely weak.

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01-26-2013, 11:56 PM
  #41
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I`m not saying it`s demeaning to MacKinnon, I`m saying Drouin is a giveaway machine but people make excuses for him because he gets away with 2 or 3 entertaining plays per game

The fact that MacKinnon is ranked higher than Drouin is all the evidence I need. I`d ask you to find me coaches and scouts who say Drouin`s vision is better than MacKinnon`s to disprove my opinion and you wouldn`t be able to. This information isn`t readily available.

What an asinine qualifier to your argument.

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01-27-2013, 01:18 AM
  #42
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Funny thing with Drouin. Before the WJC, in his entire career with Halifax it seemed like he made one giveaway... Since coming back he's made several every game ... Not the same player since the tourney and he's trying to be way too cute, as is the rest of the team ...

Saying he's a giveaway machine though is a bit too much still lol.

OT: But why do you hate Halifaxs D so much GM17? A lot of your posts are criticizing them, yet we have 3 players in the top 20 in D scoring, and hold opponents to the least amount of shots and goals per game ... I'm wondering, what more can they do? Anything, or are they destined to be "borderline bad"... You always use them as a scapegoat when they're not the problem lol

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01-27-2013, 01:28 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM17 View Post
I`m not saying it`s demeaning to MacKinnon, I`m saying Drouin is a giveaway machine but people make excuses for him because he gets away with 2 or 3 entertaining plays per game

The fact that MacKinnon is ranked higher than Drouin is all the evidence I need. I`d ask you to find me coaches and scouts who say Drouin`s vision is better than MacKinnon`s to disprove my opinion and you wouldn`t be able to. This information isn`t readily available.

What an asinine qualifier to your argument.
1- The fact that MacKinnon is ranked one spot higher (and Drouin is rising rather fast) than MacKinnon does not mean that he has better vision than Drouin at all. Hockey IQ, hands and creativity are skills/talents that he has over MacKinnon.

2- The information is readily available if you do a minimum of research as to how draft eligible players are perceived instead, talk to scouts when you go to games, etc. It is pretty easy to find out... And here is just one example of the many readily available quotes/analysis from a coach/scout that disproves your claim: "“He [Drouin] has the best hockey IQ I’ve coached against in the (QMJHL),” said Tourigny, who has been behind the Huskies bench for nine seasons. “It’s unreal.
“I’ve never coached against a guy like that.”"

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2013-wj...181814818.html


Last edited by hab 4ever: 01-27-2013 at 01:48 AM.
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Old
01-27-2013, 08:37 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by hab 4ever View Post
1- The fact that MacKinnon is ranked one spot higher (and Drouin is rising rather fast) than MacKinnon does not mean that he has better vision than Drouin at all. Hockey IQ, hands and creativity are skills/talents that he has over MacKinnon.

2- The information is readily available if you do a minimum of research as to how draft eligible players are perceived instead, talk to scouts when you go to games, etc. It is pretty easy to find out... And here is just one example of the many readily available quotes/analysis from a coach/scout that disproves your claim: "“He [Drouin] has the best hockey IQ I’ve coached against in the (QMJHL),” said Tourigny, who has been behind the Huskies bench for nine seasons. “It’s unreal.
“I’ve never coached against a guy like that.”"

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2013-wj...181814818.html
That quote doesn't compare his vision to MacKinnon's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalifaxDucks View Post
Funny thing with Drouin. Before the WJC, in his entire career with Halifax it seemed like he made one giveaway... Since coming back he's made several every game ... Not the same player since the tourney and he's trying to be way too cute, as is the rest of the team ...

Saying he's a giveaway machine though is a bit too much still lol.

OT: But why do you hate Halifaxs D so much GM17? A lot of your posts are criticizing them, yet we have 3 players in the top 20 in D scoring, and hold opponents to the least amount of shots and goals per game ... I'm wondering, what more can they do? Anything, or are they destined to be "borderline bad"... You always use them as a scapegoat when they're not the problem lol
I feel that their passing is terrible and shots or no shots they give up several glorious opportunities that shouldn't happen. Cutting into the boards and giving up the middle of the ice on 3 on 2s and stuff like that. The puck movement in the offensive zone last night was embarrassing. They just happen to do a lot of really questionable things. I get it, they're young, but stuff like not helping the centreman keep/pass the puck when he's getting 2on1ed in his own zone. It's frustrating to watch.

That and they really aren't gifted enough puck movers for the o-zone system in place. The pass to the D crap is terrible. No cycle game was employed, and it's clearly the coaches fault for not realizing the D have passed it out of their own zone 4 times. Players like MacKinnon Frk Drouin are big + talented enough to cycle the defencemen's heads off. Why employ a strategy that so often leads to failure?

That said, I'm a Saint John fan so I wouldn't be surprised to see me more critical than the typical Location: Halifax poster. I want Halifax to do well, but I'll nail em where I can

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01-27-2013, 11:03 AM
  #45
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I've watched every mooseheads game this year, and nearly every home game live at the metro center and I don't see these turnovers people are talking about with Drouin. Are you guys talking about failed 1 on 1 moves ? He's certainly not throwing errant passes or coughing the puck up under physical pressure.

He does seem more confident and aggressive in 1 on 1 attempts than before. He used to routinely do a flip dump high in the air and chase the defender in, but now most times he will try to beat the defender 1 on 1 or curl back and look for the trailer. Sure he could dump the puck in everytime and then wouldn't have any 'turnovers' but he still beats the defenders quite often and when he doesn't the puck still usuallly ends up deep in their end because he has such quick hands to chip the puck in on a failed 1 on 1 move.

If these are Drouin's turnovers, then I would argue that Mackinnon does this more than Drouin.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:07 AM
  #46
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MacKinnon's a turnover machine too to be fair. Yes going 1on1 and getting sat or marginalized is a turnover. Get it deep and play real hockey.

They're two different birds at it. MacKinnon skates an entire zone ahead of his team and so he has nothing to pass to. Then he either tries to go around + turns it over, or he holds up, waits, and then the pass has been read and it's picked off.

Drouin on the other hand tries to go through the legs or around the body with the puck and it goes the other way. It's a prettier turn over at least. You go OHHHHH!!!!...damnit.

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01-27-2013, 12:38 PM
  #47
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I don't see much of an issue personally.

Not all turnovers are equal. If they were trying high risk dangles out of the defensive zone and turning the puck over for scoring chances or throwing blind passes though the middle then it would be an issue.

Dump and chase is fine but that is still turning over possession of the puck to the other team. Mack and Jo are talented enough to get the puck deep even if they are marginalized on the zone entry as you put it.

That situation will create a less effective forecheck but that line is more about puck posession than forechecking. I do think they have too many puck carriers on the top line though. Would like to see Founier back on that line and Beauchemin-Mcauley-Frk as a line. I think that would balance things out better

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01-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by GM17 View Post
That quote doesn't compare his vision to MacKinnon's.
You're kidding, right? One of the top coaches in the league says that Drouin has the best hockey IQ he has coached against in the Q and he coaches against MacKinnon too. This comfirms what learned opinion says, aka that Drouin's hockey sense is in a class of its own and yes ahead of that of MacKinnon.

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01-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by hab 4ever View Post
You're kidding, right? One of the top coaches in the league says that Drouin has the best hockey IQ he has coached against in the Q and he coaches against MacKinnon too. This comfirms what learned opinion says, aka that Drouin's hockey sense is in a class of its own and yes ahead of that of MacKinnon.
Sidney Crosby.

He coached against him too.

Now what?

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01-27-2013, 09:00 PM
  #50
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Sidney Crosby.

He coached against him too.

Now what?
? Lol.

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