HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Garth Must Go/Thank You Mr. Wang

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-27-2013, 07:55 PM
  #76
bigtim1988
YES! YES! YES! YES!
 
bigtim1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: long island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
No its not. I guess Garth has his kids up late defending him because I go to every game and every KNOWLEDGEABLE FAN I speak to believes that Garth needs to go
theres ur problem right there, iv been to countless games, and i think iv met maybe 5 knowledgeable fans, all with skewed point of views

bigtim1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 07:59 PM
  #77
beach
Things are looking
 
beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: here
Country: United States
Posts: 1,830
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to beach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bexlyspeed View Post
charles wang is a hero

nobody is going to be praising him for hiring Snow. it was and is a bad move.
an experienced GM would have us in a better position after 6 years. snow was hired because snow won't offer any resistance to the financial restraints wang has placed on the team. thats it plain and simple.

yeah wang was a godsend when he bought the team and i won't blame him for pinching pennies after losing so much money for so many years, but he still doesn't know hockey and hasn't learned a thing about it. full marks to him for trying to keep the team in nassau and even more praise for the brooklyn move, but if brooklyn gives us some cash flow and the ability to attract real players, they he needs to ax snow and hand the reigns to a hockey guy and then butt out and let us have a chance to be great again
There is nothing in your post with which I disagree, and nothing that conflicts with what I said in my post.

beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:05 PM
  #78
lazycop
ISLE BE DAMNED!
 
lazycop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 875
vCash: 500
Put it this way, given the choice, I'd rather see Snow with a new owner than Wang with a new GM.

lazycop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:47 PM
  #79
bigtim1988
YES! YES! YES! YES!
 
bigtim1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: long island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach View Post
If Wang did not buy the Islanders in 2000, the team most certainly would have been bought and moved out of NY.
no, that would not have happened. u fail to realize that in 2000, the team was a dynasty less than 20 years ago+ the fact that we had one of the best cable deals out. gary bettman wont let the coyotes leave for christ sakes, do u really think hed let a team that won 4 cups leave an area thats somewhat a hockey market, in a large metropolitan area? hell no

cwang and kumar dont buy the islanders in 2000, some other billionaire ends up buying them, but the nhl would prob would have owned them until said billionaire came along. so i think giving wang credit for saving this team from relocation is a little unwarrented.

u fail to realize that NY has a lot of rich people, and it would have been a matter of time before a buyer came along.


Last edited by bigtim1988: 01-27-2013 at 08:59 PM.
bigtim1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:50 PM
  #80
bigtim1988
YES! YES! YES! YES!
 
bigtim1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: long island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazycop View Post
Put it this way, given the choice, I'd rather see Snow with a new owner than Wang with a new GM.
agreed

bigtim1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:52 PM
  #81
blinkman360
Norris
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lawn Guyland
Country: United States
Posts: 9,700
vCash: 500
LotteryForLife what are you talking about? The only defenseman I ever saw you talk about before the draft was Dumba. I never saw you post anything ever about Trouba. From what I remember though you wanted Forsberg.

Don't act like A) it was this no-brainer that we should have taken Trouba; or B) like you actually know anything about Trouba or Reinhart other than how they looked at the WJCs.

blinkman360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:53 PM
  #82
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,995
vCash: 500
It's really hard to rate how good/bad Snow is

Positive
-He has to work on a shoestring budget(so it hard to rate him against a GM that has free reign to do as he pleases)
-He is good at signing player to good contracts
-Good at picking up table scraps
-hasn't made any terrible deals(in terms of actual trades he did made I would rate him a positive but...)

...Negatives
-can't make any good deals that will improve the team immediately
-terrible getting any returns for players that obviously won't resign with us in the summer(I understand think player X is worth so much but if you can't get that at the trade deadline dump him for the best offer, how many extra picks could the Islanders get if they just unloaded guys for the best offer such as Biron, Martinek, etc. It's just a case of bad asset management)

boredmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 08:55 PM
  #83
kuwo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SVK
Posts: 611
vCash: 500
nvm...

kuwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 09:12 PM
  #84
OpAck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
Does it really get worse than 5 straight seasons in the draft lotto? How does it get worse than that?
So you wanted the Isles to continue signing guys like Mike Comrie and trading for guys like Smyth in order for them to be a playoff bubble team, right? You do realize when this "rebuild" started...the prospect "cupboard" was bare and Mike Comrie was our top line center, right? Who was our 1 and 2 on defense....Chris Campoli and Bryan Berard? This team wasn't going to attract the big name UFA's. Nor did this team have the assets to acquire premier talent. A lengthy rebuild was completely necessary. 3-5 years would be my range, before the team starts to compete. This is the 5th year, and I feel these guys are close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip of Rick
Collecting draft picks and having a deep prospect pool should be expected when you finish last every season. It should not be praised.
I know you've made it clear in the past that you hate Snow and never have a nice thing to say about him...but what did you want the him and the Isles to do? What would any other GM do to make the Isles a Stanley Cup contender? Trade Okposo and 15th overall for Stamkos? Maybe if the magical GM dangles Rick out there, maybe he can sweet talk say, LA into giving up Doughty. Or trade Wade Dubielewicz to Tampa Bay for their 1st overall pick to select Tavares. This team needed a lengthy rebuild. We needed to be a lottery team for multiple seasons. We now have one of the best core of prospects in the league. We now have one of the best players in the game, in Tavares. And there are numerous prospects in our system that have the potential to be top-6 forwards, top-4 dmen...what more did you expect Garth to do?

OpAck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 10:34 PM
  #85
Groin Of Bates
Registered User
 
Groin Of Bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpAck View Post
We now have one of the best players in the game, in Tavares. And there are numerous prospects in our system that have the potential to be top-6 forwards, top-4 dmen...what more did you expect Garth to do?
I expect Garth to finally take the next ****ing step. Support our core with players who can ease them into the NHL level. Instead of signing the Reasoners and Boultons, go out and push harder for the 2nd and 3rd tier players worth giving a damn about. Swing a trade for someone like JM-Liles, who did not cost much to get and would easily strengthen our top-4.

I expect Garth to not have a prospect like Nino, or Bailey, in the NHL when they are not ready. I expect Garth to stop playing cap-games and start building a team. I expect Garth to make moves at the trade deadline instead of constantly seeing our players walk in July. And I expect him to understand how to value his players and ask for credible return on them, if necessary.

Charles is bad, we get it. Charles sets limitations, I understand. But, there were plenty of moves that could have been done to help us along.

I expect Garth to act like a ****ing GM. Im tired of constantly using the "rebuild" excuse. Wait for next year guys!! Strome and Donovan may be ready!

Groin Of Bates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:00 PM
  #86
KyleBailey12
Registered User
 
KyleBailey12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,796
vCash: 500
Thank you so much Wang for my bottom feeding team that can't hold onto leads.

-Am I doing this right?

KyleBailey12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 11:30 PM
  #87
ScaredStreit
Registered User
 
ScaredStreit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,005
vCash: 500
Here's my questions to the Snow defenders-and it's very straight forward and simple:


-What has the team accomplished during the rebuild?

-How has the team gotten better on the ice during the rebuild?

-When should the Isles stop finishing in the bottom-5?

-When should the Isles start making the playoffs?



I don't know about anybody else-but to me after 6-7 years you need more than a 1st overall star player that was handed to you (as a result of being the worst team in the league), and bottom-5 finishes every year.

Do I think that the Isles should be contenders by now? No.

Do I think that they should finish better than they did when the rebuild started 6-7 years ago? Absolutely.

PS-Hypothetically if MM was still the GM and did exactly everything that Snow did since Snow assumed the job-you'd all be calling for his head (still). Don't pretend like you wouldn't.

ScaredStreit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 03:37 AM
  #88
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 16,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazycop View Post
Put it this way, given the choice, I'd rather see Snow with a new owner than Wang with a new GM.
Bingo.

Replace the girl you gave herpes to with a clean one, people!

Sorry, the disease must be eradicated. Wang is the issue, not the GM du jour. Garth could be GM and hire better coaches if the franchise weren't being run like a running gag as it has since Wang bought them.

And before that.

But even then, two questions:

Are there better GM's out there?
Why do some of you not want them here?


Last edited by OlTimeHockey: 01-28-2013 at 03:47 AM.
OlTimeHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 07:19 AM
  #89
Pnut
Registered User
 
Pnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: w. suckic
Country: United States
Posts: 7,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groin Of Bates View Post
I expect Garth to not have a prospect like Nino, or Bailey, in the NHL when they are not ready.
You do realize that when Bailey is different than Nino? I guess not. They chose NHL because back in 2008 this team was so bereft with no talent they needed to. Bailey stayed after his first season, Nino was sent back down (the right thing to do)

They learned, from their mistake. SO you making the comparison is not warranted because they were handled totally different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groin Of Bates View Post
I expect Garth to stop playing cap-games and start building a team. I expect Garth to make moves at the trade deadline instead of constantly seeing our players walk in July. And I expect him to understand how to value his players and ask for credible return on them, if necessary.
You expect...why? What in the past makes you think the future will be any better? And IF that is the case, then why stick and stay an Isles fan?
Also when has Garth not gotten good return, when he has traded?

Pnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 07:32 AM
  #90
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 3,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Here's my questions to the Snow defenders-and it's very straight forward and simple:


-What has the team accomplished during the rebuild?

-How has the team gotten better on the ice during the rebuild?

-When should the Isles stop finishing in the bottom-5?

-When should the Isles start making the playoffs?


I don't know about anybody else-but to me after 6-7 years you need more than a 1st overall star player that was handed to you (as a result of being the worst team in the league), and bottom-5 finishes every year.

Do I think that the Isles should be contenders by now? No.

Do I think that they should finish better than they did when the rebuild started 6-7 years ago? Absolutely.

PS-Hypothetically if MM was still the GM and did exactly everything that Snow did since Snow assumed the job-you'd all be calling for his head (still). Don't pretend like you wouldn't.
- They now have a rebuilt cupboard of talent, which is in fact the whole point of a rebuild. They are not all ready but it is coming along rather nicely. Rebuilding is a slow and painful process but the Milbury approaching of trading away young talent for immediate help didn't work out so here we are.

- The team now has some actual real talent playing for them: Tavares, Hamonic, Moulson, Grabner and there are more to come although they're not quite there yet. It needs to be supplemented with some more talent but it's improving.

-They should stop finishing in the bottom 5 around now. Maybe this season but definitely not next.

- They should be challengening for the playoffs next season.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 07:37 AM
  #91
CanseiDeSerBreakcore
One More Astronaut
 
CanseiDeSerBreakcore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Location
Country: Spain
Posts: 4,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazycop View Post
Put it this way, given the choice, I'd rather see Snow with a new owner than Wang with a new GM.
^ This a thousand times over.

People saying "Wang needs to hire a hockey guy" seem to forget that Snow actually IS a 'hockey guy' who started a little younger and ascended much faster.

I understand how badly we all want this team to be respectable. Every year we come here and select a player or two to burn in effigy right along with ownership and management, but the sad truth is that as much as the last 8 years have caused my faith in Wang to abate, Wang kept the team here. As much as so many would like to see Snow fired out of a cannon, the prospects about which we bicker wouldn't be here had they not been drafted. Sure, the hindsight arguments and "it's not hard to draft good if you SUCK!!!" arguments will be what they are, but I still point to Milbury and call a truckload of BS on that.

I'm not saying what Snow and Wang have done gives them more "carté blanche" than it gives some or all of us "casus belli" to oil up the guillotines, but when I see logic in something, I relax my trigger finger. I mean.......*really now*.....what could Snow have done to put this team a few steps forward RIGHT NOW that wouldn't be a side-effect of the subtraction of Charles Wang? Managing a laughing stock team with a crap reputation, no prospect pool, no names to speak of, what could have been done?

Things that were and are already attempted:

Trying to put a new face of integrity on the franchise with the Smyth Trade (which the Isles didn't lose, as neither Plante, O'Marra or Nilsson amounted to squat.) Luckily, now the face of integrity is Tavares. It may have taken a while, but there's no one, save for a Malkin or Stamkos I'd rather see lead this team. JT has the sort of character that makes you think one could bottle his sweat and sell it as "Integrity" and it'll sell for €30 a bottle.

Deciding that as there was jack left in the propspect pool that a FULL, expansion-style rebuild was necessary and sticking by it because he HAS to - I'm actually glad that prospects haven't been traded for a mix of depth, tweeners and a centerpiece that pitches a fit after hearing he's headed to Long Island. (Karpovtsev, Muller and Linden all say hello.)

Refusing to trade prospects for scraps, which was both Milbury's specialty and why the Islanders in his era all had a negligible half-life. "Frankenstein" teams that were pretty much 'throw it at the wall and see if it sticks.' The Isles have really only lost ONE trade since Snow took over, as opposed to the long list of piss poor trades Milbury made in his time.

I want improvement as much as anyone else, but the team has had zero ammunition to make the sort of immediate turn-around deal that some as clamoring for, unless Strome, Nino, Donovan, Reinhart, Pelech, et cetera are placed on the trade block.

If Snow had a budget and were managing a team that didn't have it's brand tarnished for 20 years, I'd put money on greater overall progress. As this isn't the case, all this bluster to fire the guy comes off to me as a desire to kill the messenger. I see the logic behind his moves, and I hope that the problems this team have get proved once and for all as ownership - in the form of management assembling a solid product over the next 18 months so that the Islanders that hit the ice at Barclays can be Snow's "I hate to be an I-told-you-so" roster and win over the haters.

Both may be guilty in their own ways, but Garth Snow is just about the least of our problems, in my opinion.

CanseiDeSerBreakcore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 09:06 AM
  #92
MattMartin
KillerInstinct™
 
MattMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,816
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to MattMartin
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazycop View Post
Put it this way, given the choice, I'd rather see Snow with a new owner than Wang with a new GM.
What he said.

I think personally we could hire the greatest GM in the history of sports and without funding he would be good at best (good meaning makes the playoffs every few years loses 1st round all the time). When your are in a business where the playing field is equal more often than not the owner who is spending near the max opposed to the one who is struggling to make the floor your gonna probably be a better team and i will try to prove it below.

I will take a stab at the difference that 25 mil can make.
The max this year is 70.2 Mill and the floor is 44 mil and here is our numbers.

Forwards 2012-13
John Tavares 5,500,000
Matt Moulson 3,133,333
Michael Grabner 3,000,000
Kyle Okposo 2,800,000
Frans Nielsen 2,750,000
Marty Reasoner 1,350,000 out Olli Jokinen in 4,500,000 difference 3.15 mil
Josh Bailey 1,050,000
Brad Boyes 1,000,000 out out Zach Parise in 7,538,462 difference of 6.6 mil
Matt Martin 1,000,000
Casey Cizikas 900,000
David Ullstrom 891,666
Colin Mcdonald 700,000
Keith Aucoin 650,000
Jesse Joensuu 600,000
Eric Boulton LW 540,000

Defense
Mark Streit 4,100,000
Matt Carkner 1,500,000 out Matthew Carle in 5,500,000 difference of 4 mil
Travis Hamonic 875,000
Radek Martinek 750,000 out Ryan Suter in 7,538,462 difference of 6.8 mil
Thomas Hickey 700,000
Brian Strait 605,000
Andrew MacDonald 550,000
Joe Finley 525,000

Goalies
Rick DiPietro 4,500,000
Evgeni Nabokov 2,750,000

Buyout
Alexei Yashin 2,204,000

Actual Payroll 40,201,500 with Parise,Suter,Jokininen and Carle roughly 60.7 mil
Cap Space 25,276,001 leaving with those 4 players roughly 4.7 mil still left.

New line combos (doing this quickly)
Tavares Moulson Parise
Jokinen Okposo Bailey
Nielsen Grabner Martin
Aucoin Ullstrom Cizikas

Carle Suter
Macdonald Hammonic
Streit Strait

These were btw the best available free agents (this past offseason) at their position who did not sign with their original teams.
With that new line up how much better do you think this team would be?
P.S. Someone can probably fix the line combos even better


Last edited by MattMartin: 01-28-2013 at 09:27 AM.
MattMartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 09:40 AM
  #93
Groin Of Bates
Registered User
 
Groin Of Bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
You do realize that when Bailey is different than Nino? I guess not. They chose NHL because back in 2008 this team was so bereft with no talent they needed to. Bailey stayed after his first season, Nino was sent back down (the right thing to do)

They learned, from their mistake. SO you making the comparison is not warranted because they were handled totally different ways.
Comparison is absolutely warranted. With Bailey, they had the option of sending him back and utilizing someone from the Sound Tigers. If this team was so "bereft of talent", which I agree with, why couldnt a more-established minor league player not take his spot? This is exactly what we're doing this season so far. Our team is still bereft of talent, save a few players on both offense and defense, yet Snow rode the waiver wave for 2 weeks and here we stand. Bailey then should have been in the AHL the following year, when it was obvious he wasnt NHL ready. If this was not a shortened season, Id bet Nino makes this roster, again. Because it is a shortened season and because he is off to a hot start in Bridgeport, I agree with the decision to keep him down. I wouldnt say its "learning" more than Snow bringing in players to help us reach the cap floor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
You expect...why? What in the past makes you think the future will be any better? And IF that is the case, then why stick and stay an Isles fan?
Also when has Garth not gotten good return, when he has traded?
I expect because that is what the question asked. Nothing in the past makes me think the future will be any better, except if everyone we drafted becomes a serviceable NHL'er (with about 3-4 necessary superstars). This obviously wont happen. With that being said, which we can probably agree on, I dont understand why there are so many Snow apologists on this board who defend his moves even with a bad owner. I hate the argument and question of "well, why stay a fan?" or "youre not a real fan then" or "you obviously dont see the truth of the situation". I stay a fan because I dont jump ship. It's such a cop-out statement that is thrown around on these boards constantly. You can have a good team with a cheap owner. Period. We spin tires and say "thank you fans".

Finally, I didnt say that Garth hasnt gotten good return on his trades. I stated Garth has overvalued UFA's and asked way too much for them at the deadline, when he could have gotten something in return instead of losing them outright. Asking for 1sts for Parenteau, Nabokov, and Konopka? On the subject of trades, I also dont understand his thought process in possibly trading away all of your picks for the #2 overall...who is now hurt.

Groin Of Bates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 10:35 AM
  #94
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 3,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
What he said.

I think personally we could hire the greatest GM in the history of sports and without funding he would be good at best (good meaning makes the playoffs every few years loses 1st round all the time). When your are in a business where the playing field is equal more often than not the owner who is spending near the max opposed to the one who is struggling to make the floor your gonna probably be a better team and i will try to prove it below.

I will take a stab at the difference that 25 mil can make.
The max this year is 70.2 Mill and the floor is 44 mil and here is our numbers.

Forwards 2012-13
John Tavares 5,500,000
Matt Moulson 3,133,333
Michael Grabner 3,000,000
Kyle Okposo 2,800,000
Frans Nielsen 2,750,000
Marty Reasoner 1,350,000 out Olli Jokinen in 4,500,000 difference 3.15 mil
Josh Bailey 1,050,000
Brad Boyes 1,000,000 out out Zach Parise in 7,538,462 difference of 6.6 mil
Matt Martin 1,000,000
Casey Cizikas 900,000
David Ullstrom 891,666
Colin Mcdonald 700,000
Keith Aucoin 650,000
Jesse Joensuu 600,000
Eric Boulton LW 540,000

Defense
Mark Streit 4,100,000
Matt Carkner 1,500,000 out Matthew Carle in 5,500,000 difference of 4 mil
Travis Hamonic 875,000
Radek Martinek 750,000 out Ryan Suter in 7,538,462 difference of 6.8 mil
Thomas Hickey 700,000
Brian Strait 605,000
Andrew MacDonald 550,000
Joe Finley 525,000

Goalies
Rick DiPietro 4,500,000
Evgeni Nabokov 2,750,000

Buyout
Alexei Yashin 2,204,000

Actual Payroll 40,201,500 with Parise,Suter,Jokininen and Carle roughly 60.7 mil
Cap Space 25,276,001 leaving with those 4 players roughly 4.7 mil still left.

New line combos (doing this quickly)
Tavares Moulson Parise
Jokinen Okposo Bailey
Nielsen Grabner Martin
Aucoin Ullstrom Cizikas

Carle Suter
Macdonald Hammonic
Streit Strait

These were btw the best available free agents (this past offseason) at their position who did not sign with their original teams.
With that new line up how much better do you think this team would be?
P.S. Someone can probably fix the line combos even better
A team spending close to the cap will obviously have an advantage over one that struggles to reach the floor. That is pretty obvious. But which ever you look at it, the problem still remains: NO BIG FREE AGENT WOULD SIGN WITH THE ISLANDERS!!

There is little point in dreaming of the Suter's or Parise's of this world or any other big name. Garth tried many times over and never succeeded and the way some people always say "sign him" or "trade for him" it seems as if they think they're at the supermarket picking and choosing what to get. It would be easy for Snow to empty the cupboard for immediate help but there's a reason he won't do that.

In a few years the Isles will be closer to the cap than we'd like to acknowledge because in a few years Moulson, Hamonic, Amac and others will be in for big paydays.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #95
isles31
Poster Excellont
 
isles31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtim1988 View Post
theres ur problem right there, iv been to countless games, and i think iv met maybe 5 knowledgeable fans, all with skewed point of views
you sit by too many of those people who yell "shooooooot" when the point men have no lane/angle, dont you.

isles31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 11:44 AM
  #96
kasper11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 6,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Here's my questions to the Snow defenders-and it's very straight forward and simple:


-What has the team accomplished during the rebuild?

-How has the team gotten better on the ice during the rebuild?

-When should the Isles stop finishing in the bottom-5?

-When should the Isles start making the playoffs?
1) The Isles have a much brighter future than they did four years ago due to the young players in the system. The fact is that prior to the rebuild, the team was getting by with players signed for one year at a time. There was never a reason to believe the future would be better.

2) We need to wait more than 5 games for this.

3 & 4) I would have said this is the year the Isles should be at least challenging for a playoff spot, but that was before the lockout. I think the lockout hurts the Isles more than a lot of other teams (condensed schedule featuring toughest division in hockey, lack of depth, less practice time for the young players to learn). So, I would say next season. The Isles should be a playoff team next year. Nino , maybe Strome or Nelson, Donavan, maybe De Haan should be starting to contribute.

Basically, if the goal is to rebuild through the draft, you have to give at least three draft classes to accomplish that. I don't think you can expect the 2009 and 2010 classes to be contributing yet. It is too early. By next year, I think that starts to change. You should at least see some more players contributing which should allow the Isles to compete. Then within a year or two after that, I would expect to have a core in place which could contend.

kasper11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 12:03 PM
  #97
CDirt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Here's my questions to the Snow defenders-and it's very straight forward and simple:


-What has the team accomplished during the rebuild?

-How has the team gotten better on the ice during the rebuild?

-When should the Isles stop finishing in the bottom-5?

-When should the Isles start making the playoffs?



I don't know about anybody else-but to me after 6-7 years you need more than a 1st overall star player that was handed to you (as a result of being the worst team in the league), and bottom-5 finishes every year.

Do I think that the Isles should be contenders by now? No.

Do I think that they should finish better than they did when the rebuild started 6-7 years ago? Absolutely.

PS-Hypothetically if MM was still the GM and did exactly everything that Snow did since Snow assumed the job-you'd all be calling for his head (still). Don't pretend like you wouldn't.
It hasn't been 6-7 years of rebuilding. It's much closer to four. It was after the 08-09 season. The team had already drafted Bailey and finally came to the conclusion, after missing out on Smyth, signing Guerin, Weight and Comrie, that the team couldn't move forward anymore.

This rebuild really began the year Tavares was drafted. I would say the team has gotten better, MUCH better. OTOH so has our division. Team constructed of Weight, Guerin, Park, Hunter, Comrie, Bergenheim, Tambellini, Sutton and Meyer would fare MUCH WORSE.

Or is your arguement here suggesting that you think the team would fare better than the one we have now with those guys on the roster?

CDirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 12:05 PM
  #98
Giuseppe Franco
Registered User
 
Giuseppe Franco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Acrostic View Post
^ This a thousand times over.

People saying "Wang needs to hire a hockey guy" seem to forget that Snow actually IS a 'hockey guy' who started a little younger and ascended much faster.

I understand how badly we all want this team to be respectable. Every year we come here and select a player or two to burn in effigy right along with ownership and management, but the sad truth is that as much as the last 8 years have caused my faith in Wang to abate, Wang kept the team here. As much as so many would like to see Snow fired out of a cannon, the prospects about which we bicker wouldn't be here had they not been drafted. Sure, the hindsight arguments and "it's not hard to draft good if you SUCK!!!" arguments will be what they are, but I still point to Milbury and call a truckload of BS on that.

I'm not saying what Snow and Wang have done gives them more "carté blanche" than it gives some or all of us "casus belli" to oil up the guillotines, but when I see logic in something, I relax my trigger finger. I mean.......*really now*.....what could Snow have done to put this team a few steps forward RIGHT NOW that wouldn't be a side-effect of the subtraction of Charles Wang? Managing a laughing stock team with a crap reputation, no prospect pool, no names to speak of, what could have been done?

Things that were and are already attempted:

Trying to put a new face of integrity on the franchise with the Smyth Trade (which the Isles didn't lose, as neither Plante, O'Marra or Nilsson amounted to squat.) Luckily, now the face of integrity is Tavares. It may have taken a while, but there's no one, save for a Malkin or Stamkos I'd rather see lead this team. JT has the sort of character that makes you think one could bottle his sweat and sell it as "Integrity" and it'll sell for €30 a bottle.

Deciding that as there was jack left in the propspect pool that a FULL, expansion-style rebuild was necessary and sticking by it because he HAS to - I'm actually glad that prospects haven't been traded for a mix of depth, tweeners and a centerpiece that pitches a fit after hearing he's headed to Long Island. (Karpovtsev, Muller and Linden all say hello.)

Refusing to trade prospects for scraps, which was both Milbury's specialty and why the Islanders in his era all had a negligible half-life. "Frankenstein" teams that were pretty much 'throw it at the wall and see if it sticks.' The Isles have really only lost ONE trade since Snow took over, as opposed to the long list of piss poor trades Milbury made in his time.

I want improvement as much as anyone else, but the team has had zero ammunition to make the sort of immediate turn-around deal that some as clamoring for, unless Strome, Nino, Donovan, Reinhart, Pelech, et cetera are placed on the trade block.

If Snow had a budget and were managing a team that didn't have it's brand tarnished for 20 years, I'd put money on greater overall progress. As this isn't the case, all this bluster to fire the guy comes off to me as a desire to kill the messenger. I see the logic behind his moves, and I hope that the problems this team have get proved once and for all as ownership - in the form of management assembling a solid product over the next 18 months so that the Islanders that hit the ice at Barclays can be Snow's "I hate to be an I-told-you-so" roster and win over the haters.

Both may be guilty in their own ways, but Garth Snow is just about the least of our problems, in my opinion.
I agree with a lot of your post, but must point out that it's pretty easy not to lose trades when you hardly ever make them. That's one of my main issues with Garth. Everyone knows he's working with a very limited budget, hence an over reliance on youngsters and cheap waiver wire pickups, so it boggles my mind that he hasn't gone down this route more often. I'm not saying I want Milbury part deux, but we've basically gone from one extreme to another trade wise. There has to be a happy medium. Now I obviously don't know what's been offered, but I do think a more experienced GM would have done a better job trying to fill in some of the glaring holes (1st line rw, 2nd line c, top 4 dman, etc.) then Garth has.

I can't kill Garth cos of the limitations set by the nut he works under, but I also can't really praise him either for simply building up a decent prospect pool due to 5 straight lottery finishes.

Giuseppe Franco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 12:37 PM
  #99
Bunk Moreland
Registered User
 
Bunk Moreland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 13,835
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
A team spending close to the cap will obviously have an advantage over one that struggles to reach the floor. That is pretty obvious. But which ever you look at it, the problem still remains: NO BIG FREE AGENT WOULD SIGN WITH THE ISLANDERS!!
While the arena issue has been looming its not the be all, end all.. THE REASON NO ONE SIGNS IS BECAUSE OF FRONT OFFICE/OWNERSHIP INCOMPETENCE.. Ehrhoff didn't reject us because of the arena, he rejected us because when the entire league is front loading contracts to attract free agents Charles Wang is BACK LOADING them combine that with the terrible on ice product and the circus style reputation it's really no wonder players pass on us. Winning solves all and this organization hasn't got a clue how to do anything but stockpile draft picks, pick from the trash and sign awful veterans.

Bunk Moreland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2013, 01:14 PM
  #100
Bert Marshall days
Registered User
 
Bert Marshall days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
While the arena issue has been looming its not the be all, end all.. THE REASON NO ONE SIGNS IS BECAUSE OF FRONT OFFICE/OWNERSHIP INCOMPETENCE.. Ehrhoff didn't reject us because of the arena, he rejected us because when the entire league is front loading contracts to attract free agents Charles Wang is BACK LOADING them combine that with the terrible on ice product and the circus style reputation it's really no wonder players pass on us.

Why do you think the contracts are backloaded?


(Why did Tavares, Grabner and Okposo re-sign for the circus?.....with backloaded contracts)

Bert Marshall days is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.