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for a Leafs rebuild!

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:36 PM
  #26
TOGuy14
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Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
I am actually quite comfortable with our center core for a rebuild.

We need to move kessel so we can start building around grabovski for a rebuild. He is a solid #2 centerman, and with him bozak and kadri, thats a solid 1-2-3 for a rebuilding year.

Trade kessel, phaneuf, franson, macarthur for picks and prospects and ride the team to a bottom 5 finish.
Yes, trading our 25 year old star winger and rebuilding around our 29 year old #2C makes a lot of sense

Honestly I am pretty sure I hate half of all Leaf fans and their drastic overreactions and terrible concepts for the team going forward.

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Old
01-27-2013, 07:45 PM
  #27
Mr Misty
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If Dallas was interested I'd ask for Jamieson Oleksiak.
I thought the needs would center more around forward prospects rather than more defensemen considering Gardiner and the high pick on Reilly. Oleksiak is probably more than I would give up considering that Phaneuf wouldn't be under team control for anywhere near as long.

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01-27-2013, 08:04 PM
  #28
The Dangley One
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Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
This is not an overreaction thread, all I'm stating is the players we(the Leafs) rely on, are support players and should not be relied upon like they have been in Toronto, I think it's time for a proper rebuild. That being said there is a long list of guys who I think should be moved, that would be fantastic complimentary players to contenders or playoff teams.

Should be moved:

Kessel: (He's a fantastic player, he's a dynamic and elite scoring winger, extremely underrated passer and a deadly shot) That being said, he's not someone you build around, he's a piece you bring in to make room for the other offensive threats on your team.

Phaneuf: (Potential game changer, he can change the momentum from a single play, he energizes a team with his hits and slappers) There is plenty of debate on whether or not he's a #1 defencemen, in my mind he's as close as you can be without actually being one. He frequently plays with lesser partners against teams top threats, but he needs another Top pairing dman as a partner, someone to let him play his game, and bring that energy that he can.

MacArthur: (Let's get this straight, he's a tweener, he's best suited for a 3rd line who does what he's asked of, however, if an injury occurs, he wouldn't look out of place on the 2nd line) He has a bullet of a slapper and some grit to his game.

Grabovski: (Heart and soul guy, he'll give it all for the win, would be a fantastic #2C behind a Top C such as Toews) He's speedy, a great defender has a hard accurate shot.

Liles: (Top 4 PMD, this year under Carlyle, he's shown the ability to be a great defender, add that with his natural offensive instinct and you have a great PP specialist who can handle his own 5v5) He's best to be paired with Shut-down partner with a heavy shot.

Franson: (As of right now, he's a bottom pairing guy, he's got a hard accurate shot and is coming into his own with his size, there are questions about his work ethic and entitlement, however the size and ability is there) He could be had for a reasonable price and could blossom into a Top 4 dman under the right circumstances.

Throw out some offers on these players, keep it realistic and go by both team needs, the purpose of this thread is a Toronto rebuild, so offer picks, prospects or young players.
With all the talent you describe the leafs should have no problem making the playoffs

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Old
01-27-2013, 08:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
3+ years of the same core (same results)
5 years of finishing in the bottom 5 (Nothing to show for it)
10 years of no playoffs
45+ years of no cup


At what point is it not an overreaction?
You can't keep this team players accountable for things they had no control over. Toronto will never improve with that kind of thinking.

Yes, in three years they have still not improved much in the standings but you could make that argument for a lot of teams.

Hang in there Leaf fans.

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:00 PM
  #30
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I could see the Blues have interest in Dion. I have been waiting for a legit rebuild from the Leafs and Flames for a bit now. Leafs just keep delaying the inevitable it seems. Patchwork just doesn't work unless you have a good minor league, cost controled players in the salary cap era.

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01-27-2013, 09:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Frea_K View Post
So just throwing this out there. Ottawa has its top two centres locked up for the next three years, and we could use another defenseman next year to replace Gonchar. So I'm thinking it might benefit both to trade Mika Zibanejad for Phaneuf. Now im not suggesting straight up, some picks or B prospect would have to come from Ottawa as well. Now, in all seriousness, Ottawa and Toronto would never pull off this trade even if they were Buyers/Sellers respectively. It would still be a good option for Ottawa as they still have a couple years to groom a replacement for Spezza if he parts after his contract is up, but I really hope he retires a Senator.

Flame away.
I think it's an incredibly fair offer. But there's no chance in hell i'm trading Phaneuf to our arch rival. Can't happen.

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bluester View Post
I could see the Blues have interest in Dion. I have been waiting for a legit rebuild from the Leafs and Flames for a bit now. Leafs just keep delaying the inevitable it seems. Patchwork just doesn't work unless you have a good minor league, cost controled players in the salary cap era.
I think a Rattie + 1st + D'Agostini for Phaneuf deal is fair. Maybe instead of D'Agostini make it Stewart with another piece coming from Toronto

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:33 PM
  #33
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Toffoli, Bernier and Forbort for Kessel and a 2nd? Probable overpayment from the Kings but Kessel on Kopitar's wing would be deadly

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:39 PM
  #34
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
3+ years of the same core (same results)
5 years of finishing in the bottom 5 (Nothing to show for it)
10 years of no playoffs
45+ years of no cup

At what point is it not an overreaction?

People should accept that the team is terrible down to the core. We had our chance of rebuilding properly, but threw that away for a quick chance at the playoffs. The Kessel deal was the worst thing that has happened to the Leafs since I became a fan.



This.
The bolded is the only thing in your post that matters. The team is 3 years in, no team goes from nothing to contender in 3 years.

If the Kessel deal was the worst thing that has happened since you became a fan then your fandom cant go back too far. Luongo for an aging somewhat useless Clark, what became Couture for Toskala... Not sure they are better than the Kessel trade considering the returns were aging and useless.

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01-27-2013, 09:39 PM
  #35
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A rebuild suggests their was something built in the first place--and there's no evidence of that during the last decade.

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01-27-2013, 09:39 PM
  #36
The Podium
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Originally Posted by KBA4life View Post
Toffoli, Bernier and Forbort for Kessel and a 2nd? Probable overpayment from the Kings but Kessel on Kopitar's wing would be deadly
What????

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:43 PM
  #37
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If you ask me, this is ridiculous.

Brian Burke worked with Nonis as his assistant GM for 4(IIRC) seasons retooling this team. He traded Seguin and Hamilton (both future stars) for kessel. I can't see Nonis blowing up the team he built in one season. Yes, they are missing a few peices but I think a rebuild is completely unnessesary at this point.

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01-27-2013, 09:51 PM
  #38
Jerkini
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Originally Posted by MrFunnyWobbl View Post
If you ask me, this is ridiculous.

Brian Burke worked with Nonis as his assistant GM for 4(IIRC) seasons retooling this team. He traded Seguin and Hamilton (both future stars) for kessel. I can't see Nonis blowing up the team he built in one season. Yes, they are missing a few peices but I think a rebuild is completely unnessesary at this point.
I'm looking at it from a long term perspective. If the Leafs signed Grabovski to a $5.5 cap hit and Lupul to a $5.2, Kessel will justifiably be worth in the $7-8 million range. At that price point, it'll be a colossal mistake. His value will only diminish the closer he gets to free agency. So it's something that definitely needs to be taken into consideration.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:03 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
I'm looking at it from a long term perspective. If the Leafs signed Grabovski to a $5.5 cap hit and Lupul to a $5.2, Kessel will justifiably be worth in the $7-8 million range. At that price point, it'll be a colossal mistake. His value will only diminish the closer he gets to free agency. So it's something that definitely needs to be taken into consideration.
Grabovski however is a C and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. A good comparable for Nonis would be the Neal deal, and considering that he can likely get him for closer to 6 IMHO.

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01-27-2013, 10:22 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by KBA4life View Post
Toffoli, Bernier and Forbort for Kessel and a 2nd? Probable overpayment from the Kings but Kessel on Kopitar's wing would be deadly
Sorry but thats to much from Kings.

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Old
01-27-2013, 10:31 PM
  #41
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Grabovski however is a C and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. A good comparable for Nonis would be the Neal deal, and considering that he can likely get him for closer to 6 IMHO.
I'm sorry, what?!

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:36 PM
  #42
T M L
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Didn't the Leafs just pretty much finish a rebuild? They have had top 5 picks like 5 years in a row
No, Brian Burke pissed all those picks away in the worst trade in the history of the franchise... Kessel trade.

Burke has done a great job at building his most beloved team with those picks, Boston.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:47 PM
  #43
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Sorry but thats to much from Kings.
Don't worry about it. Leafs would be insane to accept that offer

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01-28-2013, 01:07 AM
  #44
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Don't worry about it. Leafs would be insane to accept that offer
Not sure, those are three solid prospects and solve a lot of Leafs problem, Toffoli should become a very good 1st line center, Forbot should be a solid second pairing defencemen and Bernier will be a starter, better than the Leafs have seen in recent years.

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01-28-2013, 07:12 AM
  #45
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To Ottawa: Kessel, Phaneuf

To Toronto: 2013, 2014, 2015 1st Rounders
Bishop, 2013, 2014, 2015 3rd Rounders, Da Costa, O'Brien, Daugavins (who could both help your PK now)

Ottawa hopes to sign one or both before they are UFA in 2014. Toronto gets a potential back up goalie for this year and future, two 4th liners to help fix your PK and who could be retained cheaply if you like them. And 6 picks.

Personally I would not trade 2 core players like this if I was Toronto, I wouldn't go full rebuild. But this thread is about them doing that. And while this offer from Ottawa does not provide a ton NOW... It does offer 3 young roster players now, and a good prospect in Da Costa. For a long term rebuilding team it keeps offering tons of value for a long time.

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01-28-2013, 07:24 AM
  #46
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
To Ottawa: Kessel, Phaneuf

To Toronto: 2013, 2014, 2015 1st Rounders
Bishop, 2013, 2014, 2015 3rd Rounders, Da Costa, O'Brien, Daugavins (who could both help your PK now)

Ottawa hopes to sign one or both before they are UFA in 2014. Toronto gets a potential back up goalie for this year and future, two 4th liners to help fix your PK and who could be retained cheaply if you like them. And 6 picks.

Personally I would not trade 2 core players like this if I was Toronto, I wouldn't go full rebuild. But this thread is about them doing that. And while this offer from Ottawa does not provide a ton NOW... It does offer 3 young roster players now, and a good prospect in Da Costa. For a long term rebuilding team it keeps offering tons of value for a long time.
That's not full rebuild. That's just full stupid.

Lehner+Zibby would have to be in the deal for sure. And that is just for starters.

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01-28-2013, 07:41 AM
  #47
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Phaneuf to Minnesota:

Phaneuf with ~3M salary retained in Toronto for Coyle (or Dumba) + Cap Dump + 1st

- Keeps Minnesota equivalent cap-wise, gives them a top pairing D to put with Suter or to spread out onto the second pairing. Coyle could be expendable due to Koivu/Granlund, Dumba due to Suter/Phaneuf/Brodin.

Kessel to LA

Kessel + Scrivens for M. Richards + J. Bernier.

- Might need to be balanced out with a pick or prospect heading in LAs direction. LA has Kopitar/Carter who can be a great 1-2 punch up the middle, Kessel gives them an elite sniper to make their top 6 more dangerous offensively, Scrivens can be a longterm decent backup.

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01-28-2013, 07:44 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Phaneuf to Minnesota:

Phaneuf with ~3M salary retained in Toronto for Coyle (or Dumba) + Cap Dump + 1st

- Keeps Minnesota equivalent cap-wise, gives them a top pairing D to put with Suter or to spread out onto the second pairing. Coyle could be expendable due to Koivu/Granlund, Dumba due to Suter/Phaneuf/Brodin.

Kessel to LA

Kessel + Scrivens for M. Richards + J. Bernier.

- Might need to be balanced out with a pick or prospect heading in LAs direction. LA has Kopitar/Carter who can be a great 1-2 punch up the middle, Kessel gives them an elite sniper to make their top 6 more dangerous offensively, Scrivens can be a longterm decent backup.
Either rebuild or not.

No need for Richards if we're trading for futures. All that would do is make our pick worse
Oh and that isn't enough for Phaneuf. Burns got more than that and no salary was retained

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Old
01-28-2013, 07:49 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
This is not an overreaction thread, all I'm stating is the players we(the Leafs) rely on, are support players and should not be relied upon like they have been in Toronto, I think it's time for a proper rebuild. That being said there is a long list of guys who I think should be moved, that would be fantastic complimentary players to contenders or playoff teams.

Should be moved:

Kessel: (He's a fantastic player, he's a dynamic and elite scoring winger, extremely underrated passer and a deadly shot) That being said, he's not someone you build around, he's a piece you bring in to make room for the other offensive threats on your team.

Phaneuf: (Potential game changer, he can change the momentum from a single play, he energizes a team with his hits and slappers) There is plenty of debate on whether or not he's a #1 defencemen, in my mind he's as close as you can be without actually being one. He frequently plays with lesser partners against teams top threats, but he needs another Top pairing dman as a partner, someone to let him play his game, and bring that energy that he can.

MacArthur: (Let's get this straight, he's a tweener, he's best suited for a 3rd line who does what he's asked of, however, if an injury occurs, he wouldn't look out of place on the 2nd line) He has a bullet of a slapper and some grit to his game.

Grabovski: (Heart and soul guy, he'll give it all for the win, would be a fantastic #2C behind a Top C such as Toews) He's speedy, a great defender has a hard accurate shot.

Liles: (Top 4 PMD, this year under Carlyle, he's shown the ability to be a great defender, add that with his natural offensive instinct and you have a great PP specialist who can handle his own 5v5) He's best to be paired with Shut-down partner with a heavy shot.

Franson: (As of right now, he's a bottom pairing guy, he's got a hard accurate shot and is coming into his own with his size, there are questions about his work ethic and entitlement, however the size and ability is there) He could be had for a reasonable price and could blossom into a Top 4 dman under the right circumstances.

Throw out some offers on these players, keep it realistic and go by both team needs, the purpose of this thread is a Toronto rebuild, so offer picks, prospects or young players.
So you move your best players and you get better?

Just curious who are they going to get that's better than Kessel and Phaneuf?

Sorry you fell off the bandwagon after 5 games.

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01-28-2013, 07:53 AM
  #50
waitin425
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Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
This is not an overreaction thread, all I'm stating is the players we(the Leafs) rely on, are support players and should not be relied upon like they have been in Toronto, I think it's time for a proper rebuild. That being said there is a long list of guys who I think should be moved, that would be fantastic complimentary players to contenders or playoff teams.

ill do my best to entertain you
Should be moved:

Kessel: (He's a fantastic player, he's a dynamic and elite scoring winger, extremely underrated passer and a deadly shot) That being said, he's not someone you build around, he's a piece you bring in to make room for the other offensive threats on your team.

Kessel to Long Island for Griffin Reinhardt and a 1st this year

Phaneuf: (Potential game changer, he can change the momentum from a single play, he energizes a team with his hits and slappers) There is plenty of debate on whether or not he's a #1 defencemen, in my mind he's as close as you can be without actually being one. He frequently plays with lesser partners against teams top threats, but he needs another Top pairing dman as a partner, someone to let him play his game, and bring that energy that he can.

Phaneuf to San Jose for Logan Couture

MacArthur: (Let's get this straight, he's a tweener, he's best suited for a 3rd line who does what he's asked of, however, if an injury occurs, he wouldn't look out of place on the 2nd line) He has a bullet of a slapper and some grit to his game.

Mac plus Islanders 1st to Wpg for Evander Kane

Grabovski: (Heart and soul guy, he'll give it all for the win, would be a fantastic #2C behind a Top C such as Toews) He's speedy, a great defender has a hard accurate shot.

Grab to Chicago for Hjalmersson and 1st

Liles: (Top 4 PMD, this year under Carlyle, he's shown the ability to be a great defender, add that with his natural offensive instinct and you have a great PP specialist who can handle his own 5v5) He's best to be paired with Shut-down partner with a heavy shot.

Liles to Nashville for 2nd rounder

Franson: (As of right now, he's a bottom pairing guy, he's got a hard accurate shot and is coming into his own with his size, there are questions about his work ethic and entitlement, however the size and ability is there) He could be had for a reasonable price and could blossom into a Top 4 dman under the right circumstances.

Franson to Florida for John McFarland

Throw out some offers on these players, keep it realistic and go by both team needs, the purpose of this thread is a Toronto rebuild, so offer picks, prospects or young players.
Toronto loses
Kessel
Phaneuf
Grabs
Mac
Lilies
Cranston

Toronto adds
Reinhardt
Couture
Kane
Hjalmersson
McFarland
Chicago 1st
Nashville 2nd


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