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OT: NBA Sacramento sale moves along

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Old
01-27-2013, 01:14 AM
  #76
wildthing202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Maybe but going back to Seattle at the expense of Sacramento doesn't do Stern any favors and make his legacy any better.

But I gotta say that's an awesome typo. lol
Maybe to the people of Sacramento & fans of the Kings it won't, but the rest of us it would help his legacy since the Sonics are more iconic than the Kings.

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01-27-2013, 05:13 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Memphis was sold to a Northern Californian. Nothing has really changed with their potential to be relocated except who may initiate it. Them and the Bucks have short-term lease agreements and those normally have some out clause. The Grizzlies one can be bought out at any time.
The spiteful side of me would like to see the Grizzlies move to Sacramento if the Kings move to Seattle.

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01-27-2013, 08:23 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
Maybe to the people of Sacramento & fans of the Kings it won't, but the rest of us it would help his legacy since the Sonics are more iconic than the Kings.
'The rest of us'? You speak for everyone else now? And your argument is a baseless popularity thing. Meaningless.

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01-27-2013, 10:48 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
'The rest of us'? You speak for everyone else now? And your argument is a baseless popularity thing. Meaningless.
Legacy is based on popularity. The media harped more on the loss of the Sonics than the creation of the Thunder which is held over Stern's head rather than the good that came from OKC.

This time around it's the return of the Sonics which gets most of the press which in this effort will make Stern look good even with the loss of Sacramento. Just to add to that it also means getting rid of the worst owners in the NBA which will make Stern's legacy look that much better.

His legacy will be that he brought back a franchise to a city that lost its team, not that he lost the Kings. For Pete's sake this would be the 2nd time the Kings have moved since he was commissioner. Does anyone even remember Kansas City at this point?

Same can be said for Bettman and Winnipeg. Winnipeg's loss was a bigger deal than Phoenix getting a team and Winnipeg getting a team back was bigger than Atlanta losing a team(again).

Some teams are just more iconic/memoriable than others and in this case, Sonics > Kings.

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01-27-2013, 11:27 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
Legacy is based on popularity. The media harped more on the loss of the Sonics than the creation of the Thunder which is held over Stern's head rather than the good that came from OKC.

This time around it's the return of the Sonics which gets most of the press which in this effort will make Stern look good even with the loss of Sacramento. Just to add to that it also means getting rid of the worst owners in the NBA which will make Stern's legacy look that much better.

His legacy will be that he brought back a franchise to a city that lost its team, not that he lost the Kings. For Pete's sake this would be the 2nd time the Kings have moved since he was commissioner. Does anyone even remember Kansas City at this point?

Same can be said for Bettman and Winnipeg. Winnipeg's loss was a bigger deal than Phoenix getting a team and Winnipeg getting a team back was bigger than Atlanta losing a team(again).

Some teams are just more iconic/memoriable than others and in this case, Sonics > Kings.
One problem with this whole spiel. You're vastly underestimating the hit the NBA will take by moving the Kings at this point. Your Winnipeg example actually is closer to identifying the current Kings situation than Seattle. Seattle has three other teams in that area to identify with. Sacramento has none. The Kings were more relevant to this league in recent history than Seattle was on the court. That doesn't even matter really.

The big key here is that the NBA will take a huge hit as a league when the fans AND their local government support the franchise and do what they're asked to do and it's still not enough. Seattle, at the time, didn't get one put together and yes ownership had something to do with it but they didn't get to the point that Sacramento has gotten to and had it ripped away from them. There's a reason why Stern keeps giving Sacramento more and more opportunities. They've been putting the work together and he knows that this market solely identifies with one of his franchises. If they relocate this franchise, it is at best no different than having to move Seattle. The league doesn't gain any good image-wise from this relocation.

No matter what your views are on the franchises in terms of who is more iconic, this market has proven that it values its franchise more than most that have had their team longer or have more people or resources at their disposal to support it. The Kansas City example is a horrible one. Nobody cared about the franchise in KC and it was nowhere near the support the same franchise got here with by and large the same on-court results.

The important part is that your argument is baseless. What proves that your statement is accurate that the Sonics are more iconic than the Kings? It's nothing more than your opinion and that's fine to have but it doesn't make it right.

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01-27-2013, 01:22 PM
  #81
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None of what either of your are matters that much, but Pinkfloyd if you think people will be clamoring for Sacramento if you lose like Seattle the past 3 to 5 years I have a bridge to sell you. The media will be too busy blabbing about Seattle. You have to admit sonics gate was good marketing even though it was one sided.


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01-27-2013, 01:24 PM
  #82
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The NBA is such a joke.
I wish the NBA could lose over 2000 games in 8 years like the NHL has. Or drag a dead desert franchise on for nearly a decade. Or gate a TV contract worth 20 canadian dollars.

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01-27-2013, 02:54 PM
  #83
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Maybe to the people of Sacramento & fans of the Kings it won't, but the rest of us it would help his legacy since the Sonics are more iconic than the Kings.
Only post-relocation, through the romanticized lament of their plight (a la Winnipeg). It's hip to want the Sonics back, but who were they befoe that? Just another team out west who played games while the rest of the country slept. Use of "iconic" is quite lofty language, I must say.

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01-27-2013, 04:41 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Only post-relocation, through the romanticized lament of their plight (a la Winnipeg). It's hip to want the Sonics back, but who were they befoe that? Just another team out west who played games while the rest of the country slept. Use of "iconic" is quite lofty language, I must say.
So true. It's hipsterism at the worst. But Sac won't even get that and we both know this.

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01-27-2013, 07:18 PM
  #85
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Seattle was a team with 40 years of history, an NBA title, and a few great teams in an era that's now been nostalgized to death. The Kings have played in like 5 cities, are famous for sucking, and their best player ever is the widely reviled Chris Webber. Plus, if Dennis Rodman's Bas as I Want to Be was to be believed, was every player's least favorite place to be.

Not comparable.

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01-27-2013, 10:11 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
One problem with this whole spiel. You're vastly underestimating the hit the NBA will take by moving the Kings at this point. Your Winnipeg example actually is closer to identifying the current Kings situation than Seattle. Seattle has three other teams in that area to identify with. Sacramento has none. The Kings were more relevant to this league in recent history than Seattle was on the court. That doesn't even matter really.

The big key here is that the NBA will take a huge hit as a league when the fans AND their local government support the franchise and do what they're asked to do and it's still not enough. Seattle, at the time, didn't get one put together and yes ownership had something to do with it but they didn't get to the point that Sacramento has gotten to and had it ripped away from them. There's a reason why Stern keeps giving Sacramento more and more opportunities. They've been putting the work together and he knows that this market solely identifies with one of his franchises. If they relocate this franchise, it is at best no different than having to move Seattle. The league doesn't gain any good image-wise from this relocation.

No matter what your views are on the franchises in terms of who is more iconic, this market has proven that it values its franchise more than most that have had their team longer or have more people or resources at their disposal to support it. The Kansas City example is a horrible one. Nobody cared about the franchise in KC and it was nowhere near the support the same franchise got here with by and large the same on-court results.

The important part is that your argument is baseless. What proves that your statement is accurate that the Sonics are more iconic than the Kings? It's nothing more than your opinion and that's fine to have but it doesn't make it right.
Pink:

All of your arguments have been baseless, because even the Admins and Mods agree w/ the other posters, all you're doing by belaboring the issue is flaming in its truest sense by ignoring what others have consistently stated between the Seattle Times and Sacramento Bee, this franchise has been on the move since it was founded, if you read the ST Piece today, it wasn't supported in Rochester, Cincinnati, or KC, IF KJ wasn't the Mayor of Sacramento, he'd be the owner of the Kings, if you cared about this franchise where's your bid to keep them in Sacramento

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01-27-2013, 10:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
if you cared about this franchise where's your bid to keep them in Sacramento
I'm sure he has a few hundred million between the couch cushions that he'll dig out now that you asked him to place a bid.

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01-28-2013, 08:32 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
None of what either of your are matters that much, but Pinkfloyd if you think people will be clamoring for Sacramento if you lose like Seattle the past 3 to 5 years I have a bridge to sell you. The media will be too busy blabbing about Seattle. You have to admit sonics gate was good marketing even though it was one sided.
They will once post-relocation hits just like it did in Seattle. Like I said, the Kings were more relevant in recent times as a team and a fanbase than Seattle was. These were known at one time to be the loudest fans in the league. Yes, people will be happy to have the Sonics back. No, they will not forget the Kings in Sacramento. The important part is that people in Sacramento which would be the largest American market without a professional team will be clamoring for it and be setup for a new franchise almost immediately after. They will get another pro franchise and it will be quicker than most people think.

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Seattle was a team with 40 years of history, an NBA title, and a few great teams in an era that's now been nostalgized to death. The Kings have played in like 5 cities, are famous for sucking, and their best player ever is the widely reviled Chris Webber. Plus, if Dennis Rodman's Bas as I Want to Be was to be believed, was every player's least favorite place to be.

Not comparable.
This is a horrifically slanted argument full of misinformation. The Kings best player of all-time is, was, and will always be Oscar Robinson. When the Webber era came around, Sacramento wasn't an ideal place to play but that changed when people realized what kind of fans they had. Webber was a prime example of a guy that didn't want to play here, sucked it up, and actually enjoyed being here.

Seattle, prior to relocation, wasn't given the time of day in the national media except when they went to the finals. They were irrelevant after their run with Payton and Kemp just like the Warriors with the same history, more or less, became irrelevant after their early 90's teams. Once they get their team back and the media has their nostalgic stories and the novelty wears off at the national level, they will sink right back into irrelevance. Yeah, the fans will be happy with basketball again but nationally, nobody will give a crap about them like before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Pink:

All of your arguments have been baseless, because even the Admins and Mods agree w/ the other posters, all you're doing by belaboring the issue is flaming in its truest sense by ignoring what others have consistently stated between the Seattle Times and Sacramento Bee, this franchise has been on the move since it was founded, if you read the ST Piece today, it wasn't supported in Rochester, Cincinnati, or KC, IF KJ wasn't the Mayor of Sacramento, he'd be the owner of the Kings, if you cared about this franchise where's your bid to keep them in Sacramento
Again, your posts make little sense and don't address anything. It doesn't matter how many times the franchise has moved. They got to Sacramento and the market has supported it and it isn't a market the NBA should leave. If they do, it's just shifting the mistake from Seattle to Sacramento.

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01-28-2013, 03:25 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
They will once post-relocation hits just like it did in Seattle. Like I said, the Kings were more relevant in recent times as a team and a fanbase than Seattle was. These were known at one time to be the loudest fans in the league. Yes, people will be happy to have the Sonics back. No, they will not forget the Kings in Sacramento. The important part is that people in Sacramento which would be the largest American market without a professional team will be clamoring for it and be setup for a new franchise almost immediately after. They will get another pro franchise and it will be quicker than most people think.



This is a horrifically slanted argument full of misinformation. The Kings best player of all-time is, was, and will always be Oscar Robinson. When the Webber era came around, Sacramento wasn't an ideal place to play but that changed when people realized what kind of fans they had. Webber was a prime example of a guy that didn't want to play here, sucked it up, and actually enjoyed being here.

Seattle, prior to relocation, wasn't given the time of day in the national media except when they went to the finals. They were irrelevant after their run with Payton and Kemp just like the Warriors with the same history, more or less, became irrelevant after their early 90's teams. Once they get their team back and the media has their nostalgic stories and the novelty wears off at the national level, they will sink right back into irrelevance. Yeah, the fans will be happy with basketball again but nationally, nobody will give a crap about them like before.



Again, your posts make little sense and don't address anything. It doesn't matter how many times the franchise has moved. They got to Sacramento and the market has supported it and it isn't a market the NBA should leave. If they do, it's just shifting the mistake from Seattle to Sacramento.
all but Webber and Richmond and Divac weren't members of the Kings their entire careers, either, PF, WASN'T GS RUN-TMC, which included both C-Webb and Richmond...

Robertson may be their greatest player, but Archibald came closest, and even he went on to Boston, and who knows what the two players from Rochester, including Stokes, who was largely unknown, back in those days, how is that shifting a black eye from Seattle to Sacramento, when the deal w/ OKC was made, why is the Sonics name coming back then if Hansen is approved, this is why your posts supporting the franchise border on idiocy, because again, why hasn't Sacramento built what the owners asked for, and why should they stay in Sacramento, if they're a highly unlikely chance that market will not compete bc it's a fait accompli, just like Schultz did, which you've also ignored that fact, that Schultz sold his interest to Bennett, he no longer had any control as the Seattle fans have consistently pointed out that fact, why was OKC attractive to Bennett, and it wasn't that he is from there, it's a market that hadn't been tried and it's more modern than most of the arenas, not all arenas are designed as multi-purpose facilities, either, hence why there are usually multiple arenas, as it is in OKC, w/ Cox(Myriad) and Chesepeake Energy serving both pro franchises, and that doesn't include the OSU Cowboys...

that's why I don't understand why are you not in favor of relocation, not all arenas are new, even the existing multi-purpose arenas, have either done renovations or built newer facilities to be able to compete in the business sense.

Sacramento wouldn't be on the move so much, if George Maloof, Sr. HADN'T SOLD HIS Interest in the Houston Rockets, wouldn't the Maloofs be in Houston, not Les Alexander


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01-28-2013, 03:46 PM
  #90
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Brian Robinson stated owners might meet over ASG weekend and approve sale

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01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
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WASN'T GS RUN-TMC, which included both C-Webb and Richmond...
No. The "C" was Chris Mullin - Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, and Chris Mullin.

Run-TMC only played together for two years ('89-'90 & '90-'91) - and then GS traded Richmond to Sacramento in '91. Webber wasn't drafted until '93. And then Hardaway was traded midseason '95-'96.

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01-28-2013, 04:02 PM
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No. The "C" was Chris Mullin - Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, and Chris Mullin.

Run-TMC only played together for two years ('89-'90 & '90-'91) - and then GS traded Richmond to Sacramento in '91. Webber wasn't drafted until '93. And then Hardaway was traded midseason '95-'96.
thx

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01-28-2013, 04:13 PM
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Legacy is based on popularity. The media harped more on the loss of the Sonics than the creation of the Thunder which is held over Stern's head rather than the good that came from OKC.

This time around it's the return of the Sonics which gets most of the press which in this effort will make Stern look good even with the loss of Sacramento. Just to add to that it also means getting rid of the worst owners in the NBA which will make Stern's legacy look that much better..
hey! Donald Sterling would like a word with you.

My thinking here is that Stern has just gotten to the point where he hates the Maloofs more than he likes the Sacramento market, and without some kind of white knight showing to buy the Kings in the next 2 weeks, he'll let this go through.

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01-28-2013, 04:32 PM
  #94
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Seattle was a team with 40 years of history, an NBA title, and a few great teams in an era that's now been nostalgized to death. The Kings have played in like 5 cities, are famous for sucking, and their best player ever is the widely reviled Chris Webber. Plus, if Dennis Rodman's Bas as I Want to Be was to be believed, was every player's least favorite place to be.

Not comparable.
So the big huge difference is about 12 years, a single championship from the '70s (BEFORE the Magic/Bird era) and the location of Key Arena over Arco....which is due to be replaced by an urban arena.

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this is why your posts supporting the franchise border on idiocy, because again, why hasn't Sacramento built what the owners asked for, and why should they stay in Sacramento,
The rest of your marathon run-on aside, this shows a clear and fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. Sacramento actually voted on a deal proposed by the Maloofs earlier this year. The issue seemed done, until those idiots decided they wanted to pay NOTHING. The city did its work and yet that is apparently still not enough.

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01-28-2013, 09:15 PM
  #95
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how many games did Oscar Robertson play in Sacramento again?

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01-29-2013, 08:26 AM
  #96
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how many games did Oscar Robertson play in Sacramento again?
Irrelevant. He is still honored by the Kings and their fans in Sacramento on a fairly regular basis.

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01-29-2013, 08:55 AM
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how many games did Oscar Robertson play in Sacramento again?

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Irrelevant. He is still honored by the Kings and their fans in Sacramento on a fairly regular basis.





Who cares about Oscar anyway? Why are we even talking about this?

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01-29-2013, 08:56 AM
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So the big huge difference is about 12 years, a single championship from the '70s (BEFORE the Magic/Bird era) and the location of Key Arena over Arco....which is due to be replaced by an urban arena.


The rest of your marathon run-on aside, this shows a clear and fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. Sacramento actually voted on a deal proposed by the Maloofs earlier this year. The issue seemed done, until those idiots decided they wanted to pay NOTHING. The city did its work and yet that is apparently still not enough.
Okay Okay. So your against seattle in the NHL because people want it because it's close to canada while it's not canada? But now you don't want the Kings to move? He me understand your position.

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01-29-2013, 06:30 PM
  #99
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Okay Okay. So your against seattle in the NHL because people want it because it's close to canada while it's not canada? But now you don't want the Kings to move? He me understand your position.
I can't quite tell what your assessment of my position is. My "bias against Seattle" is just a dislike of the reason most people want a team there. My bias toward the Kings is that I went to college a few miles west of Sacramento, at the tail end of their golden era, and know that the team is a huge source of civic pride, not just another sports franchise as part of the collection. Obviously the Sonics have their true diehards, because we still hear from them, but the Kings represent Sac in the eyes of the neutral observer or even casual fan. That's a lot to throw away for a league that has pioneered markets like SLC, San Antonio, Orlando, Charlotte, etc.

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01-29-2013, 10:20 PM
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Can we please stop comparing Seattle to Sacramento as if the former has better fan support? The idea that Sacramento is a bad NBA market is ridiculous. The only reason why they are moving is because someone wants to buy the team and the NBA does not want to step in the way.

The problem in both markets is down to arena issues and NBA politics. It has nothing to do with fan support or a lack of local investors... and unlike Seattle 5 years ago, Sacramento came up with a plan for a new arena. If it were down to market support the Kings wouldn't be going anywhere. Sacramento has NBA fans.

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