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P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

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01-27-2013, 10:50 PM
  #676
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
He can ask for a trade all he wants he is an RFA we stil essentially control his rights. He can demand what he wants doesn't mean he gets it.
Its creating unecessary conflict with a player we're trying to build our blueline around. There's nothing intelligent about doing this at all.

I can understand making him sit if he was asking for 6 or 7 million. But that's not the case...
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The 2.1 in the first year is a little low it should be 2.5 to 3 and year 2 should be about 3 to 3.5 max nothing more than that though.
Players of his calibre are making 5 million a season. He's a first pairing blueliner which easily puts him at that price.

By saying 3.5 max you are seriously hurting your own credibility. What's shocking though is that the Canadiens aren't even offering this much. Now we've got an unnecessary showdown coming. Not sure if you are actually a fan of the Montreal Canadiens but if you are then you shouldn't be happy about this. We've gone down a totally stupid path for absolutely no reason.

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01-27-2013, 10:53 PM
  #677
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I get the impression that he, and others, want PK signed to an unfairly low deal. Like they want him to not only sign the low-ball offer, but then have MB grab PK's head and rub his nose into the contract.

I'm on an infraction currently, but I'll say this: maybe they aren't insane, but they certainly do believe insane things about this situation.
The "rubbing his nose in it" is the only explanation I can think of from MB's position. They want to PK to bow down to them... I can't think of any other reason for making this kind of lowball offer.

Not a real smart way to deal with a player you're counting on for the future.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 PM
  #678
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PK wanted a long term deal. In his recent interview, he said he'd be willing to agree to a bridge deal. He also said he's not breaking the bank or asking for anything crazy. Do I also have to say that, in the same interview, he said Bergevin didn't disagree with the comparable Meehan and PK used. Meanwhile, Bergevin is said to have not flinched a penny since May.

Everything points to Bergevin simply not being open to negotiation. He wants a short term deal at a cheap price, and isn't moving much from that.

You've been all over PK since the start of this, and just dismiss everything Bergevin related. It's always PK's camp.
There is a very simple reason I have been all over PK and on Bergevin's side.

Bergevin is looking out for the Canadiens team.

PK is looking out for PK.

I said this before. I am a fan of the Montreal Canadiens regardless of the players on the team.

There is not an NHL team called the PK Subbans.

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01-27-2013, 10:55 PM
  #679
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Philly called about Subban

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...188405451.html

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01-27-2013, 10:57 PM
  #680
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That's the Rimer report. It had been posted in a previous thread. A few philly beat writers said there was no truth to it, though.

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01-27-2013, 10:59 PM
  #681
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That's the Rimer report. It had been posted in a previous thread. A few philly beat writers said there was no truth to it, though.
oh my mistake then,it just popped up on my facebook page 20min ago so thought it was new

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01-27-2013, 10:59 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
There is a very simple reason I have been all over PK and on Bergevin's side.

Bergevin is looking out for the Canadiens team.
Then why is he being such an idiot?
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PK is looking out for PK.
So he should accept whatever we offer? That's stupid.
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I said this before. I am a fan of the Montreal Canadiens regardless of the players on the team.

There is not an NHL team called the PK Subbans.
If you're a fan of the Habs, then you should be just as upset as we are that an idiot is running the show.

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01-27-2013, 11:01 PM
  #683
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Sure. They realize that we got ripped off by the Rangers for one defensemen so they want to get in on the act. Maybe we can take one of their grossly overpaid players in return as well.

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01-27-2013, 11:06 PM
  #684
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Edit.. Just saw it was old news.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:09 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
oh my mistake then,it just popped up on my facebook page 20min ago so thought it was new
Yeah, these threads move pretty fast. It could be the case that those beat writers are full of ****, too. I didn't know either of them. But, it was generally accepted here(not sure if that's a good thing), that there was little truth to it.

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01-27-2013, 11:10 PM
  #686
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Then why is he being such an idiot?

So he should accept whatever we offer? That's stupid.

If you're a fan of the Habs, then you should be just as upset as we are that an idiot is running the show.
No, Bergevin is not an idiot. That is YOUR opinion.

I dont know where the Habs will finish this season but since Bergevin has taken over, the Habs have done a 180 from last year under Gauthier.

I like the direction that he is going with the Habs. Out with the old culture and in with the new. Refreshing to see the new Habs compete, win or lose.

That is not idiotic. No, it is Bergevin's vision being different than what you expect it to be.

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01-27-2013, 11:11 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Sure. They realize that we got ripped off by the Rangers for one defensemen so they want to get in on the act. Maybe we can take one of their grossly overpaid players in return as well.
Briere for Subban? It would check all the boxes.

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01-27-2013, 11:12 PM
  #688
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Briere for Subban? It would check all the boxes.
At least he can speak French, jah feel me?

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01-27-2013, 11:14 PM
  #689
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Yes MB is acting like an idiot but think positive. Maybe he's just trying to make a point? An attempt to humble PK and make him sweat.

Anyways, imagine the PK chanting and the crowd going crazy when he returns.

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01-27-2013, 11:16 PM
  #690
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I also wonder how many players of Subban's skill and pedigree were subjected to a bridge contact
Well, if I were the GM and I could get a team friendly long term deal I'd take it. I don't know the rationale for sticking to having a bridge contract, but I don't really care to speculate on that.

But the fact is, bridge contracts are small contracts because the player lacks rights. After that contract is over though, the player will hold all the cards because they're about to enter their prime and are a UFA.

If subban's worth 5 million a year on a 6 year deal he's NOT worth 5 million a year on a 2 year deal. Plain and simple.

Oh, one other thing I'm wondering, do the habs have a new GM or is it still the same dumbass who traded for gomez? If it's the latter then you can't possibly be shocked that he's handling the situation poorly.

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01-27-2013, 11:16 PM
  #691
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No, Bergevin is not an idiot. That is YOUR opinion.
Yes it is. And it's rooted in the idiotic offer that we've reportedly made to a player we're counting on for the future. If the offer comes out different than what has been reported, I'll be happy to write a retraction.

Based on what I've seen though... he's a dumbass.
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I dont know where the Habs will finish this season but since Bergevin has taken over, the Habs have done a 180 from last year under Gauthier.

I like the direction that he is going with the Habs. Out with the old culture and in with the new. Refreshing to see the new Habs compete, win or lose.
We've had the easiest schedule in the league. We've had long rests and played against clubs playing 3 games in 4 nights. Way too soon to call the season a success. It's been a great start but I don't see how you credit Bergevin for this.
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That is not idiotic. No, it is Bergevin's vision being different than what you expect it to be.
Lowballing a cornerstone player is idiotic. Esp when there's a good chance that this player could come into our offices tomorrow and demand a trade. This showdown was unnecessary. I don't see how this is anything but idiotic.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:18 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
Well, if I were the GM and I could get a team friendly long term deal I'd take it. I don't know the rationale for sticking to having a bridge contract, but I don't really care to speculate on that.

But the fact is, bridge contracts are small contracts because the player lacks rights. After that contract is over though, the player will hold all the cards because they're about to enter their prime and are a UFA.

If subban's worth 5 million a year on a 6 year deal he's NOT worth 5 million a year on a 2 year deal. Plain and simple.

Oh, one other thing I'm wondering, do the habs have a new GM or is it still the same dumbass who traded for gomez? If it's the latter then you can't possibly be shocked that he's handling the situation poorly.
new GM,new Coach,pretty much new staff all around.Fresh start in Montreal

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01-27-2013, 11:20 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Briere for Subban? It would check all the boxes.
Oh man...
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Yes MB is acting like an idiot but think positive. Maybe he's just trying to make a point? An attempt to humble PK and make him sweat.

Anyways, imagine the PK chanting and the crowd going crazy when he returns.
If PK comes in tomorrow and demands a trade. Who's going to be sweating then?
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Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
Well, if I were the GM and I could get a team friendly long term deal I'd take it. I don't know the rationale for sticking to having a bridge contract, but I don't really care to speculate on that.

But the fact is, bridge contracts are small contracts because the player lacks rights. After that contract is over though, the player will hold all the cards because they're about to enter their prime and are a UFA.

If subban's worth 5 million a year on a 6 year deal he's NOT worth 5 million a year on a 2 year deal. Plain and simple.
I think most people here would've been really happy with a long term deal at 5 mil per. And it sounds like PK would've been happy with it too.
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Originally Posted by Hockey Team View Post
Oh, one other thing I'm wondering, do the habs have a new GM or is it still the same dumbass who traded for gomez? If it's the latter then you can't possibly be shocked that he's handling the situation poorly.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

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01-27-2013, 11:20 PM
  #694
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I find it incredible that peoples seems to either believe firmly that Bergevin offer is the 2,1 millions the first year and the 2,9 millions the second year one OR that Subban is asking for Douhty money. Both of thoses has been reported by journalists covering the Habs and we have seen with time how unrealiable they are, we really have to be careful.

Then again maybe and I'm just saying maybe the plan was offering Subban 2,5 millions per year for 2 years thinking they would ask for 5 millions for 2 years and they would be meeting at the middle at 3,75 millions for 2 years or something like that in a classic negotation tactic (which would explain thoses numbers ''leaked'' by journalists).

I really think the problem is with the lenght of the contract. I would like to see Bergevin making two offers, something like 2 years at 3,5 millions OR 8 years at 4,25-4,5 millions per year which could be a major steal and if Subban accept you know he is a Habs for life in his heart and is accepting a contract that can help the team (like Pacioretty). Then again I can understand being a new GM and working in a new conference that Bergevin want a short deal to really grasp what Subban really is, which is something none of us can know by the way.

I'm a big Subban fan and I really hope they can reach an agreement, I'm just really surprised alot of fans seems to have such polarized opinions on maybe fictionals numbers...

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01-27-2013, 11:21 PM
  #695
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No, Bergevin is not an idiot. That is YOUR opinion.

I dont know where the Habs will finish this season but since Bergevin has taken over, the Habs have done a 180 from last year under Gauthier.

I like the direction that he is going with the Habs. Out with the old culture and in with the new. Refreshing to see the new Habs compete, win or lose.

That is not idiotic. No, it is Bergevin's vision being different than what you expect it to be.
Bergevin is being an idiot in regards to Subban, that is a fact-based opinion.

If you like this team, thank Gauthier.

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01-27-2013, 11:22 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
That's the Rimer report. It had been posted in a previous thread. A few philly beat writers said there was no truth to it, though.
Either way, the Philadelphia Flyers are not playing well, they're letting in a lot of goals with their weak-D, they are desperate for a Subban-type player, so it's rational to assume they want Subban, no rumours are necessary.

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01-27-2013, 11:25 PM
  #697
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Either way, the Philadelphia Flyers are not playing well, they're letting in a lot of goals with their weak-D, they are desperate for a Subban-type player, so it's rational to assume they want Subban, no rumours are necessary.
Sure. There may have even been offer sheets to Subban that went unsigned, as well. It wouldn't surprise me from Holmgren.

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01-27-2013, 11:25 PM
  #698
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If subban's worth 5 million a year on a 6 year deal he's NOT worth 5 million a year on a 2 year deal. Plain and simple.
A longer team deal:

- Should pay more, because it includes UFA years.
- Should pay more, because of eventual cap appreciation.

However:

- It should also pay less, because it puts a lot of risk on the shoulders of the player.

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01-27-2013, 11:26 PM
  #699
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I find it incredible that peoples seems to either believe firmly that Bergevin offer is the 2,1 millions the first year and the 2,9 millions the second year one OR that Subban is asking for Douhty money. Both of thoses has been reported by journalists covering the Habs and we have seen with time how unrealiable they are, we really have to be careful.
I felt that way a couple of weeks ago as well but we've seen the same numbers repeated over and over. I think it's safe to assume that they are somewhat accurate.

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Then again maybe and I'm just saying maybe the plan was offering Subban 2,5 millions per year for 2 years thinking they would ask for 5 millions for 2 years and they would be meeting at the middle at 3,75 millions for 2 years or something like that in a classic negotation tactic (which would explain thoses numbers ''leaked'' by journalists).
Well, the guy's been holding out for a while now. I don't see how they wouldn't have come up already. Sure seems like the club isn't budging. And it really seems like we've boxed ourselves into a corner as now if we come down it looks like the GM 'lost' the standoff.

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I really think the problem is with the lenght of the contract. I would like to see Bergevin making two offers, something like 2 years at 3,5 millions OR 8 years at 4,25-4,5 millions per year which could be a major steal and if Subban accept you know he is a Habs for life in his heart and is accepting a contract that can help the team (like Pacioretty). Then again I can understand being a new GM and working in a new conference that Bergevin want a short deal to really grasp what Subban really is, which is something none of us can know by the way.

I'm a big Subban fan and I really hope they can reach an agreement, I'm just really surprised alot of fans seems to have such polarized opinions on maybe fictionals numbers...
I think there's enough information out there that we at least have an idea of where the two sides are at. It's been consistently reported that we want 2 years at 5 and that PK wants 2 or 3 mil more per season.

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01-27-2013, 11:29 PM
  #700
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I don't think PK will request a trade straight-up.

It's most likely going to be ''I will go as low as ___ & if you can't sign me than trade me''.

I would speculate that in this scenario MB starts to reconsider his offer.

Do any of you see him having the balls to pull the trigger on a trade? Think realistically and take into consideration the risk of public backlash (minus old fart anti-chambre people / viewers).

I'd be more scared if he was our GM for the longest of times and had tons of experience and backing. Right now, MB is given the vote of confidence by Molson but he has no GM track record that he can rely on if his gamble fails.

All it takes is PK finishing off the season with a 2nd team playing great hockey and helping them in the playoffs and even the old grumpy media will go from "PK is cancer'' to "we should of kept him".

So it's in this simplistic view that I see PK returning.

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