HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-27-2013, 11:29 PM
  #701
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 10,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The "rubbing his nose in it" is the only explanation I can think of from MB's position. They want to PK to bow down to them... I can't think of any other reason for making this kind of lowball offer.

Not a real smart way to deal with a player you're counting on for the future.
I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:29 PM
  #702
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I felt that way a couple of weeks ago as well but we've seen the same numbers repeated over and over. I think it's safe to assume that they are somewhat accurate.


Well, the guy's been holding out for a while now. I don't see how they wouldn't have come up already. Sure seems like the club isn't budging. And it really seems like we've boxed ourselves into a corner as now if we come down it looks like the GM 'lost' the standoff.


I think there's enough information out there that we at least have an idea of where the two sides are at. It's been consistently reported that we want 2 years at 5 and that PK wants 2 or 3 mil more per season.
There was 10 times more journalist and ''experts'' covering the lockout and there was most of what was reported was complete BS. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case, I have such a low opinion about theses clowns.

Forsead is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:32 PM
  #703
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Its creating unecessary conflict with a player we're trying to build our blueline around. There's nothing intelligent about doing this at all.

I can understand making him sit if he was asking for 6 or 7 million. But that's not the case...

Players of his calibre are making 5 million a season. He's a first pairing blueliner which easily puts him at that price.

By saying 3.5 max you are seriously hurting your own credibility. What's shocking though is that the Canadiens aren't even offering this much. Now we've got an unnecessary showdown coming. Not sure if you are actually a fan of the Montreal Canadiens but if you are then you shouldn't be happy about this. We've gone down a totally stupid path for absolutely no reason.
I have been a HABS fan since the 60s I have seen some incredible teams and some terrible teams and some great minds runnign the show and some terrible ones. No player should ever especially as an RFA be making demands of his management. I know quite a few guys playing in the NHL now and overseas they all think it is a joke on both sides really. Now that being said when it comes to a team mandated way of doing business coming off an ELC you deal with it and move on. You work hard and make bank on your next deal.

29dryden29 is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:33 PM
  #704
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Bergevin is being an idiot in regards to Subban, that is a fact-based opinion.

If you like this team, thank Gauthier.
Holy ****. This is the best one yet.

Thank Gauthier?

That's like thanking your girlfriend who cheated on you for giving you herpes which forced you to go to the doctor who diagnosed your hernia. And when you had the hernia surgery, the surgeon left the scalpel inside your body and you sued him and collected $100,000 dollars.

You may look at the present as beneficial but it was a hell of a painful ride getting there.

And yes, your opinion. No better than my opinion.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:34 PM
  #705
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,790
vCash: 500
Wow does OReilly have Meehan as agent as well? Bergevin can't back down now or else everyone will start holding out for bigger contracts in the future...

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:35 PM
  #706
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I don't think PK will request a trade straight-up.

It's most likely going to be ''I will go as low as ___ & if you can't sign me than trade me''.

I would speculate that in this scenario MB starts to reconsider his offer.

Do any of you see him having the balls to pull the trigger on a trade? Think realistically and take into consideration the risk of public backlash (minus old fart anti-chambre people / viewers).

I'd be more scared if he was our GM for the longest of times and had tons of experience and backing. Right now, MB is given the vote of confidence by Molson but he has no GM track record that he can rely on if his gamble fails.

All it takes is PK finishing off the season with a 2nd team playing great hockey and helping them in the playoffs and even the old grumpy media will go from "PK is cancer'' to "we should of kept him".

So it's in this simplistic view that I see PK returning.
If he demands a trade the opinions on Antichambre won't mean **** to him.

I don't know what kind of guy PK is. Maybe he accepts the lowball offer or maybe he comes back the way you say he might. Then again, maybe he's sat through this weekend wondering why the club is trying to rip him off and he comes back and says **** you and your stupid offer, trade me.

Any any of those three scenarios it's not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.
That's an even scarier thought. In that case our GM has no idea how to evaluate talent. And if he doesn't realize the value of PK and trades him away, we're likely to get nowhere near equal value for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
There was 10 times more journalist and ''experts'' covering the lockout and there was most of what was reported was complete BS. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case, I have such a low opinion about theses clowns.
I hope you're right.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:35 PM
  #707
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.
Oh god I hope not. That's a pretty terrible bet.

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:37 PM
  #708
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I have been a HABS fan since the 60s I have seen some incredible teams and some terrible teams and some great minds runnign the show and some terrible ones. No player should ever especially as an RFA be making demands of his management. I know quite a few guys playing in the NHL now and overseas they all think it is a joke on both sides really. Now that being said when it comes to a team mandated way of doing business coming off an ELC you deal with it and move on. You work hard and make bank on your next deal.
Even if he wasn't wasn't a RFA (?? I think) and he had proven alot you have to admit that was another period and it was completly unheard of, but Dryden one of the team legend and a loved player (he's even your nickname) held out for an entire season to get the contract he wanted, which is kind of worse.

Forsead is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:37 PM
  #709
Et le But
Registered User
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.

Tinordi and Beaulieu are above average prospects, Ellis is solid and Thrower/Dietz are decent, but any of them will be lucky to be 75% the player Subban is. Subban was a winning lotto ticket, you don't throw that out unless you know you can make a great trade, are a control freak beyond reason or a racist.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:38 PM
  #710
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I have been a HABS fan since the 60s I have seen some incredible teams and some terrible teams and some great minds runnign the show and some terrible ones. No player should ever especially as an RFA be making demands of his management.
I see. So they should just sign whatever contract is put in front of them then?

Yeah right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I know quite a few guys playing in the NHL now and overseas they all think it is a joke on both sides really. Now that being said when it comes to a team mandated way of doing business coming off an ELC you deal with it and move on. You work hard and make bank on your next deal.
So if the Habs had offered him the league minimum then PK should just sign it and work hard to make bank on his next deal?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:40 PM
  #711
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 10,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Oh god I hope not. That's a pretty terrible bet.
Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:42 PM
  #712
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen got contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.
Where is the "character" in lowballing a player who's earned more than you're offering him?

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:43 PM
  #713
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Tinordi and Beaulieu are above average prospects, Ellis is solid and Thrower/Dietz are decent, but any of them will be lucky to be 75% the player Subban is. Subban was a winning lotto ticket, you don't throw that out unless you know you can make a great trade, are a control freak beyond reason or a racist.
The race card is lame.

Wait a minute........Gomez is Hispanic.

Whoa. What about Jamal Mayers in Chicago? I bet Bergevin hated him.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:43 PM
  #714
coolasprICE
Registered User
 
coolasprICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If he demands a trade the opinions on Antichambre won't mean **** to him.

I don't know what kind of guy PK is. Maybe he accepts the lowball offer or maybe he comes back the way you say he might. Then again, maybe he's sat through this weekend wondering why the club is trying to rip him off and he comes back and says **** you and your stupid offer, trade me.

Any any of those three scenarios it's not good.
I have no doubt it will be ''pay me this much ---- or trade me''. PK has already acknowledged to the media the real possibility of being traded but at this point in the negotiations I'm not sure that both partieshave talked about ''trade''. Next 24 hours is where this can change.

Again, this is my speculation, but I think MB will figure out a way to get him signed and in in attempt to save face he'll cover up this mess by making it look like it was done on purpose in good faith to humble PK.

coolasprICE is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:43 PM
  #715
Hockey Team
Hunger Force
 
Hockey Team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,551
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
When was he hired?

From what I read I think one of the reasons why he wants to do a bridge contract is "he hasn't seem him play enough" yet, and wants to watch him play more before making a contract decision.

If that's the case, that's a pretty sorry excuse. I find it hard to believe the team doesn't have video of every single game they played for the last few years.

Hockey Team is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:44 PM
  #716
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Even if he wasn't wasn't a RFA (?? I think) and he had proven alot you have to admit that was another period and it was completly unheard of, but Dryden one of the team legend and a loved player (he's even your nickname) held out for an entire season to get the contract he wanted, which is kind of worse.
Dryden is my all time fav player and his holdout I hold in high regard as asinine. I no longer give a rats ass about the names on the back of the jersey for me it is about the one on the front. If you don't want to play here then GTFO I say. We need a better GM and an owner that isn't afraid of what the god damn french media will think or say. We need some people that can be more like Pollack. We have to start to build the respect back into this franchise and as fans demand a better on and off ice product. Players holding out because they think they SHOULD get more money is not going to help anything.

29dryden29 is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:44 PM
  #717
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I have no doubt it will be ''pay me this much ---- or trade me''. PK has already acknowledged the real possibility of being traded but at this point in the negotiations I'm not sure that both parties are talking about ''trade''. Next 24 hours is where this can change.

Again, this is my speculation, but I think MB will figure out a way to get him signed and in in attempt to save face he'll cover up this mess by making it look like it was done on purpose in good faith to humble PK.
The whole situation is just so stupid and unnecessary.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:44 PM
  #718
coolasprICE
Registered User
 
coolasprICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The race card is lame.

Wait a minute........Gomez is Hispanic.

Whoa. What about Jamal Mayers in Chicago? I bet Bergevin hated him.
And Byfuglien

coolasprICE is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:44 PM
  #719
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.
I think it's more that he heard things about Subban and that's why he really want to have a short term deal to have a strong report from Therrien and to see himself what is the truth and if there is a problem if that can be worked on.

I think he just don't and can't know if Subban really has his type of ''character'' or not and if he can count on the guy in his long terms plans.

Forsead is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:45 PM
  #720
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Dryden is my all time fav player and his holdout I hold in high regard as asinine. I no longer give a rats ass about the names on the back of the jersey for me it is about the one on the front. If you don't want to play here then GTFO I say. We need a better GM and an owner that isn't afraid of what the god damn french media will think or say. We need some people that can be more like Pollack. We have to start to build the respect back into this franchise and as fans demand a better on and off ice product. Players holding out because they think they SHOULD get more money is not going to help anything.
So again... these players should just accept the league minimum? Is that what you're saying?

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:46 PM
  #721
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 10,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
I think it's more that he heard things about Subban and that's why he really want to have a short term deal to have a strong report from Therrien and to see himself what is the truth and if there is a problem if that can be worked on.

I think he just don't and can't know if Subban really has his type of ''character'' or not and if he can count on the guy in his long terms plans.
OK, but if that's true, then he should offer him decent value, nothing south of 3.75 million.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:47 PM
  #722
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
I think it's more that he heard things about Subban and that's why he really want to have a short term deal to have a strong report from Therrien and to see himself what is the truth and if there is a problem if that can be worked on.

I think he just don't and can't know if Subban really has his type of ''character'' or not and if he can count on the guy in his long terms plans.
Still doesn't make sense. Sign him long term for 5 mil per. Nobody doubts his talents on the ice and if he doesn't fit into your plans behidn the scenes then deal him. If you do it this way you're dealing from a position of strength.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:49 PM
  #723
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
OK, but if that's true, then he should offer him decent value, nothing south of 3.75 million.
Like I said I stongly believe that if the numbers that are reported are true (which in my opinions is far from being sure) then in my mind Bergevin is offering 2,5 per year for 2 years, because he thought Meehan would ask for 5 millions per year for 2 year and to meet in the middle at 3,75 per year for 2 years in a classic negotiation tactic.

Forsead is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:50 PM
  #724
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Holy ****. This is the best one yet.

Thank Gauthier?

That's like thanking your girlfriend who cheated on you for giving you herpes which forced you to go to the doctor who diagnosed your hernia. And when you had the hernia surgery, the surgeon left the scalpel inside your body and you sued him and collected $100,000 dollars.

You may look at the present as beneficial but it was a hell of a painful ride getting there.

And yes, your opinion. No better than my opinion.
Bergevin is like the waitress who serves you your meal and sprinkles some grated parmesan cheese on it and lights the candle at your table. You say thank you to her, too but the meal is either good or bad depending on the people who did all the work before she carried the plate all the way to your table.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
01-27-2013, 11:51 PM
  #725
coolasprICE
Registered User
 
coolasprICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.
I agree.

I just hope that MB's low ball offer is based on what he perceives are issues with PK's character and not based on doubt about PK's talent or potential.

I mean, both are stupid reasons but if he is really doubting PK's abilities on the ice we are majorly ****ed as a fan base.

coolasprICE is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.