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Plus/Minus Thread | Penguins 2, Senators 1 (SO)

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:56 PM
  #76
HavlatMach9
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Fleury/Anderson soaking every shot made the game a bit boring. Was very impressed with Fleury though.

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01-28-2013, 12:18 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
This is like the bizarro world. Everyone frustrated with Malkin, Letang and Kunitz and pleased with Martin, Tangradi and Fleury. If Bylsma starts showing up on the plus lists, I'm building a bunker.

I agree. I hate ragging on Malkin, but he was so careless with the puck for the last 5 periods. It really came out of nowhere. He was so damn good in the first couple games. Now the last 5 periods have been horrifyingly bad.

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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I don't get this part. How did it work exactly? We never had long shifts in Ottawa's zone where we really dominated in terms of puck control, nor any point where we got a bunch of good scoring changes / open looks like Ottawa had.

To me the only thing that worked better was the reduced number of giveaways kept the other team out of our zone more. But in terms of controlling the play in their zone and getting quality chances tonight seemed pretty subpar. The one creative open-ice play that resulted in a good scoring chance, Neal buried. Other than that... fling it at the net and see what goes in 2.0.
When we came up together as a unit, we had more odd man rushes then when we stretched it out. We also had less turnovers. Their defense was backing up into their own zone and it gave us a clear lane for entry. There were a few times they got away with hooks when our guys were walking right around them.

It is a work in progress. It wasn't perfect, but it was so much better.

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01-28-2013, 12:27 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Call it a wash when Malkin and Neal play with Tanner Glass. Tanner Glass! It would be one thing if we had a bunch of injuries.

Dupuis is a good 3rd liner. A lot of this could have even avoided had Shero signed Semin this summer. It seems like our wingers get worse every year.

I can't tell you how much I miss the tk Staal Cooke line.

The pens are siting on all of this cap space. I hope shero is working on something.
It's cap space that was meant for Parise though. And it's also cap space that won't be there next year. It's not like Shero hasn't tried time and time again to find wingers. Hossa, Guerin, Neal, Ponikarovsky, Satan, Sykora, Fedotenko, Kunitz, Jagr. Some worked out, most didn't. There was a good chance the Pens would've had one of Parise or Hossa right now, but **** happens. I think fans can be pretty confident Shero has been looking for the right winger for some time, and still is.

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01-28-2013, 01:00 AM
  #79
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My humble thoughts on the PP :

I'm not even that mad that Kunitz is still on the 1st unit when he has no ****ing business being out there, or that our best scorer on the PP last year is not put in position to succeed.
Well I am a little, but it's nothing compared to my reaction when I see our breakouts, how is that possible to look so unorganized, do they even practice it? It sure doesn't look like it.

Even if they don't, on the 1st unit we have 2 elite puck carriers, then, how is that possible that both Crosby, Malkin play next to no part in our breakouts? With that in mind, how is that possible to have plays designated that leads to Neal, Letang carrying up the puck?
And to think last year it was Sullivan..

For example, why can't we see at least once a game a breakout such as Letang logging the puck up, backing off the opposing pk unit, then after crossing the red line, dropping it to Malkin coming up from behind with speed whom then proceeds to carry the puck in. It will work almost each and every time.
The worst thing is, we've done it before, some time ago but still..

Once again, the fact that we might have some difficulties once we are set up in the Ozone is comprehensible (due to lack of PP coach, complementary between the players and quality for certain roles on the 1st unit) but the zone entries should be a formality with Crosby and Malkin on this team.

So who's the ****ing genius who's responsible for this ****?
Shades of Yeo... No, actually it was better under Yeo.

One last thing, it's incredible to watch how much Sid is killing our PP (along with Kunitz and Letang of course), he is trying low percentage passes over and over again to no avail. His passing and decision making are way off. Fortunately, unlike the rest, he will get better.

On a side note, it's been a trend for him, since the start of the season, to have much better first periods than the rest of his games. Conditioning problems maybe?

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01-28-2013, 01:24 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Call it a wash when Malkin and Neal play with Tanner Glass. Tanner Glass! It would be one thing if we had a bunch of injuries.

Dupuis is a good 3rd liner. A lot of this could have even avoided had Shero signed Semin this summer. It seems like our wingers get worse every year.

I can't tell you how much I miss the tk Staal Cooke line.

The pens are siting on all of this cap space. I hope shero is working on something.
I get why you are having this impression, but in Malkin's case he was skating alongside :
Fedotenko and Dupuis when he wasn't with Sid in 09-10
Cooke and Talbot when he wasn't with Sid in 10-11

So no, in his case, it doesn't matter whoever is playing the 3rd wheel on his line, the worst days are behind.
Heck, he is even playing center almost all the time!

We did get worse compared to last year though but it's due to Kunitz being **** so far.

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:24 AM
  #81
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Re. Zhenya on the PP:

Yes, oh boy yes!

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01-28-2013, 02:04 AM
  #82
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We looked like a team in transition this game. It's pretty clear these early games are being used to work out the kinks usually solved in the preseason.

I'd also like to give a + to Dupuis. I thought he brought a lot of energy, was hitting left and right and even created a few good chances. He certainly stood out over Kunitz.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:09 AM
  #83
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+ Martin strong defensive play last night, loved it
+ Engo, looked good back there
+ Nisky, pls be back soon
+ Adam, had some huge hits
+ MAF, I thought he played great
+ Tangradi, great game, so neccessary for him

= Geno, great pass/play then terrible pass, then great pressure, the meh

- Kunitz, I think everyone has said it enough

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:18 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fate View Post
I had to run out so I missed the 2nd period but why all the minuses for Sutter? I didn't see any glaring problems with him this game and I recall a scoring chance.
He looked slow and sloppy the entire game with numerous uncharacteristic turnovers in the neutral zone. Without doubt his worst game as a penguin, but I'm confident he'll bounce back; everyone can have a poor game.

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01-28-2013, 05:25 AM
  #85
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+ The Pens look like garbage for about a 10-12 game stint every year. Then come out of it playing great hockey. Remember last Jan or Oct- Nov the season before that.

+Sid around the net on the PP. Its been a while since he was deflecting pucks in from the right side of the net. I've been saying it since he was a rookie... I badly want to see him get that Hossa lay up move down coming out of that corner.

+ The Pens played within themselves better instead of forcing everything.

- Does every dump have to be hard and around the boards? How about one that actually stays in the corner??

- Zone entery on the PP.

-Turn overs up high in the offensive zone is killing this team.

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01-28-2013, 05:55 AM
  #86
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+ Martin and Niskanen (before his injury) played very solid defensively and the powerplay they manned atleast got into the zone. Engeland and Orpik als played decent games.
+ Adams: for all the flak the guy gets around here, he atleast hits and plays hard. Vitale played a quiet game, actually expect more of him.

- Sutter: Just an unremarkable evening for him. Maybe I expect too much offensively. Uncharacteristically careless in his own zone a few times.

-- Kunitz: I hope it's just rust and not Father Time catching up with his skills and skating.

----- PP: I don't think anything needs to be said about this. It's beyond hilariously painful. Forget team defense, without a decent PP it will be hard to even win one game in the play-offs.

For those complaining about Shero's ineptitude to provide wingers...he really tried last summer, it cannot all go the Penguins way. I'm positive he is trying his best to get Sid his winger and that he sees the problems with this team.

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01-28-2013, 07:12 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Koempel View Post
For those complaining about Shero's ineptitude to provide wingers...he really tried last summer, it cannot all go the Penguins way. I'm positive he is trying his best to get Sid his winger and that he sees the problems with this team.
I just think if Crosby's career ended today, we'd look back and wonder how unstoppable he could have been with some talent around him. It's just frustrating since this has been a huge problem for about 7 years. I'm sorry but Sid deserves so much more than he's had or that he's had in the past. It's just getting so old. Just tell me why after shero failed to sign Parise he did not sign Semin? Now they'll have to trade draft picks and prospects to acquire someone with Semin's skill.

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01-28-2013, 07:13 AM
  #88
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For all the winger talk, I think Crosby could still play better. I don't think he's all the way there. I still see him at about 3/4 his usual intensity, especially in the corners and skating thru the neutral zone.

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01-28-2013, 07:33 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by sexyllama View Post
Uh okay, even though that goal was Malkin's fault. Watch Lovejoy defend the trailer... or not. He did multiple things wrong on many instances. There was another 2 on 1 lob pass from Neil that caused a breakaway and he literally stood shaking in the middle. I remember Martin, Nisky, Engo, etc. doing really good things but none for Lovejoy.
he often would beat wingers to the puck in the corners ....he get thr puck out of end quick.. he hits the guy in frount of the net ...[it would look alot better if he was 6-5 250#] but at least hes hitting him. takes a check to get the puck out...hes a good team and lockerroom player, ......ya i know he does some stuff wrongand i would not want him on the top 4, but is no where near as bad as somemake him out.

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01-28-2013, 08:13 AM
  #90
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Are people blaming Malkin for the pass or when Spezza got around him? He's made some blatant errors this year but this goal? The pass goes directly in to the "**** happens" category. He saw a white jersey on his periphery and thought it was an open man. When the puck came back to him Spezza made, ironically, a Malkin-esque move to get around him. Then they proceeded to skate down half the ice surface, shoot, and shoot again. Not sure this isn't just piling on.

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01-28-2013, 08:19 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Are people blaming Malkin for the pass or when Spezza got around him? He's made some blatant errors this year but this goal? The pass goes directly in to the "**** happens" category. He saw a white jersey on his periphery and thought it was an open man. When the puck came back to him Spezza made, ironically, a Malkin-esque move to get around him. Then they proceeded to skate down half the ice surface, shoot, and shoot again. Not sure this isn't just piling on.
I don't know, UB. I gave him that "Oh well.. crap happens" comment when he blatantly turned the puck over in Winnipeg. Ever since that turnover, it's been the same mistake over and over and over again. Geno and Sid have earned the right to make mistakes every now and again for their stellar play, but Geno should take responsibility at this point for the last 5 periods. He's better than that.

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01-28-2013, 08:20 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Koempel View Post

For those complaining about Shero's ineptitude to provide wingers...he really tried last summer, it cannot all go the Penguins way. .
Like when he drafted Poulet instead of Forsberg?

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01-28-2013, 09:29 AM
  #93
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'Cause Forsberg's tearing up the NHL right now.

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01-28-2013, 09:32 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenyas most fly rep View Post
My humble thoughts on the PP :

I'm not even that mad that Kunitz is still on the 1st unit when he has no ****ing business being out there, or that our best scorer on the PP last year is not put in position to succeed.
Well I am a little, but it's nothing compared to my reaction when I see our breakouts, how is that possible to look so unorganized, do they even practice it? It sure doesn't look like it.

Even if they don't, on the 1st unit we have 2 elite puck carriers, then, how is that possible that both Crosby, Malkin play next to no part in our breakouts? With that in mind, how is that possible to have plays designated that leads to Neal, Letang carrying up the puck?
And to think last year it was Sullivan..

For example, why can't we see at least once a game a breakout such as Letang logging the puck up, backing off the opposing pk unit, then after crossing the red line, dropping it to Malkin coming up from behind with speed whom then proceeds to carry the puck in. It will work almost each and every time.
The worst thing is, we've done it before, some time ago but still..

Once again, the fact that we might have some difficulties once we are set up in the Ozone is comprehensible (due to lack of PP coach, complementary between the players and quality for certain roles on the 1st unit) but the zone entries should be a formality with Crosby and Malkin on this team.

So who's the ****ing genius who's responsible for this ****?
Shades of Yeo... No, actually it was better under Yeo.

One last thing, it's incredible to watch how much Sid is killing our PP (along with Kunitz and Letang of course), he is trying low percentage passes over and over again to no avail. His passing and decision making are way off. Fortunately, unlike the rest, he will get better.

On a side note, it's been a trend for him, since the start of the season, to have much better first periods than the rest of his games. Conditioning problems maybe?
I understand why Bylsma (or I think I do) wouldn't do anything about this, he has no clue what to do, but why hockey minds such as 66 or Shero, or whoever is watching and could have some influence, oh why do they not pick that phone up and scream, what are you doing? Do you need help? If this pathetic PP scores on a regular basis say at 25-35%, more over if it consistently put the pressure on the opposing goalie, wear the defensive units out, etc.. it would be different game all together. That would have a major effect on 5 on 5. (Remember that Philly series last year). It's almost as if everytime they are on PP, Senators got another boost of confidence, these guys are not as scary as advertised....

I don't get it, really. all I can hear Malkin is playing terribly, only if we have Bortuzzo instead of Lovejoy, or other totally irrelevant things....

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01-28-2013, 09:37 AM
  #95
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I don't know, UB. I gave him that "Oh well.. crap happens" comment when he blatantly turned the puck over in Winnipeg. Ever since that turnover, it's been the same mistake over and over and over again. Geno and Sid have earned the right to make mistakes every now and again for their stellar play, but Geno should take responsibility at this point for the last 5 periods. He's better than that.
I see. I meant more like crap happens when talking about what actually happened. Winnipeg and Toronto were just plain dumb plays he made. This one I thought was more "Eh, what're ya gonna do?". IMO of course

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01-28-2013, 09:44 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by zhenyas most fly rep View Post
My humble thoughts on the PP :

I'm not even that mad that Kunitz is still on the 1st unit when he has no ****ing business being out there, or that our best scorer on the PP last year is not put in position to succeed.
Well I am a little, but it's nothing compared to my reaction when I see our breakouts, how is that possible to look so unorganized, do they even practice it? It sure doesn't look like it.

Even if they don't, on the 1st unit we have 2 elite puck carriers, then, how is that possible that both Crosby, Malkin play next to no part in our breakouts? With that in mind, how is that possible to have plays designated that leads to Neal, Letang carrying up the puck?
And to think last year it was Sullivan..

For example, why can't we see at least once a game a breakout such as Letang logging the puck up, backing off the opposing pk unit, then after crossing the red line, dropping it to Malkin coming up from behind with speed whom then proceeds to carry the puck in. It will work almost each and every time.
The worst thing is, we've done it before, some time ago but still..

Once again, the fact that we might have some difficulties once we are set up in the Ozone is comprehensible (due to lack of PP coach, complementary between the players and quality for certain roles on the 1st unit) but the zone entries should be a formality with Crosby and Malkin on this team.

So who's the ****ing genius who's responsible for this ****?
Shades of Yeo... No, actually it was better under Yeo.

One last thing, it's incredible to watch how much Sid is killing our PP (along with Kunitz and Letang of course), he is trying low percentage passes over and over again to no avail. His passing and decision making are way off. Fortunately, unlike the rest, he will get better.

On a side note, it's been a trend for him, since the start of the season, to have much better first periods than the rest of his games. Conditioning problems maybe?
You know, it's funny, but I honestly think if Bylsma said to Sid and Geno 'pick whatever three guys you want for the PP and do whatever the **** you want', then the PP actually would be better.

And, yes, I know that's sarcastic, but is it wrong?

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Old
01-28-2013, 09:44 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I see. I meant more like crap happens when talking about what actually happened. Winnipeg and Toronto were just plain dumb plays he made. This one I thought was more "Eh, what're ya gonna do?". IMO of course
That's a Flyer term, refuses to acknowledge it.

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01-28-2013, 09:44 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I see. I meant more like crap happens when talking about what actually happened. Winnipeg and Toronto were just plain dumb plays he made. This one I thought was more "Eh, what're ya gonna do?". IMO of course
I agree for sure. I guess if you look at them as a pattern, this one could irritate you.

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01-28-2013, 09:47 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I don't know, UB. I gave him that "Oh well.. crap happens" comment when he blatantly turned the puck over in Winnipeg. Ever since that turnover, it's been the same mistake over and over and over again. Geno and Sid have earned the right to make mistakes every now and again for their stellar play, but Geno should take responsibility at this point for the last 5 periods. He's better than that.
I'm with you, although I really liked his game in the third (credited with four takeaways, and I think all of them came then, and that's really when the Pens went with more regrouping on the breakout). I think a positive foundation is there, at least until the Pens go all stretch pass, all the time and Geno goes off the deep end trying to 'compensate' because he sees that **** doesn't work.

EDIT: I just thought about that last sentence. It would be interesting to see IF there's a proportional relationship between Geno turnovers and what type of breakout the Pens are employing. A lot more regrouping against Philly, NY, and the third in Ottawa, and the brain ***** weren't there. You know, I'll ask you this: As a player, if you go out there and see that **** isn't working, isn't the instinct, especially when your coach's only use for you is offense, to try to do more, and isn't the inevitable result usually that you do so much less (at best)? I think it happens to a lesser extent with Sid too.

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01-28-2013, 09:48 AM
  #100
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Yeah the PP is complete dog****. Ottawa was pressuring hard on the guys up top, so why not adjust and run the PP behind the net? We just kept forcing cross ice passes at the blueline until they tipped one out of the zone. Then rinse, repeat. You have Sidney Crosby working down low. Take advantage of that.

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