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Pittsburgh Needs Two Top Six Wingers

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Old
01-27-2013, 09:22 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Let me qualify this by saying Kulemin is a solid player that could help Pittsburgh. That said, lets dial it back. You are a Toronto fan. Every trade idea it seems involving the Leafs on this board or Hockey Buzz the last three years - the last names started with K ... Kadri, Kommasarek, Kulemin, Kaberle. All have been ideas floated around by Leaf fans in the last couple years for Jordan Staal, or whoever else. It's the same recycled names, just like Edmonton floating the soft Slovak; the Finn that can't stick after a decent rookie season and some failed prospect that has trouble sticking on the ECHL team, or a center that shoots his yearly load in a week.

Kulemin appears to be the only match for Pittsburgh. People value him more than others. Is he the 30-goal scorer of two years ago, or the 7-goal scorer of last year? Again, just because his name is bandied about alot doesn't mean everyone is on board. I am on board, but at what price? They think this chemistry he had with Malkin in the KHL automatically would rub off in a totally different league.
Other than some Leaf fans asking for Staal we are never the ones offering up Kulie. More often than not its someone else asking for him but trying to buy low based of last season.

If you or anyone else want him make a serious offer. Not expendable parts but something that would hurt to lose, otherwise we will happily keep the player we aren't looking to trade in the first place. Because we aren't interested in selling low on him.

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01-27-2013, 09:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Other than some Leaf fans asking for Staal we are never the ones offering up Kulie. More often than not its someone else asking for him but trying to buy low based of last season.

If you or anyone else want him make a serious offer. Not expendable parts but something that would hurt to lose, otherwise we will happily keep the player we aren't looking to trade in the first place. Because we aren't interested in selling low on him.
You make it sound like we are the GMs here. If you or anyone else wants him, make a serious offer ...

The fact is this ... on Hockeybuzz, many, many Leaf fans come over to Pittsburgh threads bringing up his name saying what a great fit he would be. It wasn't Pens fans. We were passing because of the 23-goal drop-off. They were basically offering him up. Everyone knows this too. You collectively come over as a group too many times mentioning his name, it makes it sound like you really want this guy gone.

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01-27-2013, 09:48 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I'm sure Iginla would cost around the same as Hossa did.

But just going about their value then...
Despres > Esposito - Despres is a far more refined prospect and a far safer prospect, which helps his value here...especially because Esposito had show a lot of chinks in the armor by the point of the trade. If Atlanta had a sane GM they don't touch the guy...makes me feel real great that he's now one of our pro scouts.
Christensen >/= Tangradi - Christensen was a healthy scratch for a week or two when the trade happened and when he was in the line-up he was essentially just a shootout specialist. He wasn't a very good hockey player and he'd clearly run out of chances in Pittsburgh.
1st = 1st - No comment necessary here.
Bluegers > Nothing - No need for comment here.
2nd > Nothing - See above.

You have to remember...it wasn't just Esposito, Armstrong, Christensen, and a 1st for Hossa...Pascal Dupuis came back as well. Armstrong for Dupuis was essentially a side deal hidden in the bigger deal, as both were third liners that were struggling that season. Armstrong was thought to have more value at the time because of the age difference, but it wasn't a huge gap...his play was pretty brutal at the time of the trade and it really never recovered to what it had been.

I just don't see trading for a guy like Iginla. I worry about how much longer he's going to be able to play at a very high level. Hossa was a bigger flight risk than Iginla is...but Hossa was also 6 years younger. That and finances are a major concern...Malkin, Letang, and Sutter are all up for new contracts after next season.


We need to make an upgrade at wing before the deadline. We don't need to burn down the farm for a star. A Kunitz or Guerin-type deal would suffice just fine.
Great post

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01-27-2013, 09:51 PM
  #54
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They'll have to give up some of those D prospects I'd think.

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01-27-2013, 09:56 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I'm sure Iginla would cost around the same as Hossa did.

But just going about their value then...
Despres > Esposito - Despres is a far more refined prospect and a far safer prospect, which helps his value here...especially because Esposito had show a lot of chinks in the armor by the point of the trade. If Atlanta had a sane GM they don't touch the guy...makes me feel real great that he's now one of our pro scouts.
Christensen >/= Tangradi - Christensen was a healthy scratch for a week or two when the trade happened and when he was in the line-up he was essentially just a shootout specialist. He wasn't a very good hockey player and he'd clearly run out of chances in Pittsburgh.
1st = 1st - No comment necessary here.
Bluegers > Nothing - No need for comment here.
2nd > Nothing - See above.

You have to remember...it wasn't just Esposito, Armstrong, Christensen, and a 1st for Hossa...Pascal Dupuis came back as well. Armstrong for Dupuis was essentially a side deal hidden in the bigger deal, as both were third liners that were struggling that season. Armstrong was thought to have more value at the time because of the age difference, but it wasn't a huge gap...his play was pretty brutal at the time of the trade and it really never recovered to what it had been.

I just don't see trading for a guy like Iginla. I worry about how much longer he's going to be able to play at a very high level. Hossa was a bigger flight risk than Iginla is...but Hossa was also 6 years younger. That and finances are a major concern...Malkin, Letang, and Sutter are all up for new contracts after next season.


We need to make an upgrade at wing before the deadline. We don't need to burn down the farm for a star. A Kunitz or Guerin-type deal would suffice just fine.
I'd agree that Despres > Esposito, but in 2008 Esposito was a huge hit-or-miss prospect, and lots of people were buzzing about him, even more than now over Despres.

Christensen was better than Tangradi, he nailed his one true skill (backhanded complement) but did produce numbers in the NHL, which you can't say for Tangradi.

I agree with you about Dupuis and Armstrong.

Right now, I think Feaster wouldn't trade Iginla unless he asked, and I think he would be looking for a big ransom to kickoff a legitimate rebuild. Hossa asked for a trade after the Thrashers couldn't sign him. If this happens with Iggy, I think the price will go down a bit, maybe turn the 1st into conditional and take out the 2nd?

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01-27-2013, 10:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
There is some seriously weird infatuation with Murray going on on the Pens board. It is baffling.
Bob Errey obsesses over DM's big body and it's rubbing off on some people.

Anyways, I'm not double-checking, but my guess is that none of these moves make a lick of sense in terms of long-term salary implications.

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01-27-2013, 10:40 PM
  #57
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Kennedy + Bleuger + 2nd for Ryder?

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01-27-2013, 10:41 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
I'd agree that Despres > Esposito, but in 2008 Esposito was a huge hit-or-miss prospect, and lots of people were buzzing about him, even more than now over Despres.

Christensen was better than Tangradi, he nailed his one true skill (backhanded complement) but did produce numbers in the NHL, which you can't say for Tangradi.

I agree with you about Dupuis and Armstrong.

Right now, I think Feaster wouldn't trade Iginla unless he asked, and I think he would be looking for a big ransom to kickoff a legitimate rebuild. Hossa asked for a trade after the Thrashers couldn't sign him. If this happens with Iggy, I think the price will go down a bit, maybe turn the 1st into conditional and take out the 2nd?
I think if Iggy is available at the deadline, the Flyers start a bidding war involving him. Hell, the Capitals need a leader like him desperately as well.

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01-27-2013, 10:44 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Kennedy + Bleuger + 2nd for Ryder?
Was going to say no because Ryder's a pending UFA, but remembered that Kennedy is as well. I'm not certain how acquiring Kennedy helps the Stars at all.

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01-27-2013, 10:45 PM
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All your proposals made me go "wtf?"

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01-27-2013, 10:45 PM
  #61
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Was going to say no because Ryder's a pending UFA, but remembered that Kennedy is as well. I'm not certain how acquiring Kennedy helps the Stars at all.
We'd trade Ryder to get R. Smith in the top 6, leaving a gap on the 3rd line. We could fill in internally, or put Kennedy in there. Depends on how things go.

Could just do Bleuger + 1st.

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01-27-2013, 11:10 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
We'd trade Ryder to get R. Smith in the top 6, leaving a gap on the 3rd line. We could fill in internally, or put Kennedy in there. Depends on how things go.

Could just do Bleuger + 1st.
A 1st in a great draft year for soon to be 33 year old impending UFA Michael Ryder? Not sure if serious ?

....and we are to add?

Would very much like to sign him in free agency though.

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01-27-2013, 11:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Poor Pens fans...only 3 1st line players and a couple more 2nd line wingers.
As a Pens fan, I personally get quite annoyed with the majority of other Pens fans. Could we use a top 6 winger or two? Most certainly, but making it seem as if that's the only way we can win is a joke. I'm sure just about every team would take our top 3 forwards over theirs (Crosby/Malkin/Neal) and Kunitz is no slouch either. As much as I'm not a huge Dupuis fan, he's done great in a top 6 role here. We have 2 franchise players, 1 all star, 1 good top 6, and a decent filler, Pens fans need to realize that we can't have it all. Are we struggling to score? Yes. Should we be? No. I put more on the coaches than the players at this point.

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01-27-2013, 11:43 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I'm sure Iginla would cost around the same as Hossa did.

But just going about their value then...
Despres > Esposito - Despres is a far more refined prospect and a far safer prospect, which helps his value here...especially because Esposito had show a lot of chinks in the armor by the point of the trade. If Atlanta had a sane GM they don't touch the guy...makes me feel real great that he's now one of our pro scouts.
Christensen >/= Tangradi - Christensen was a healthy scratch for a week or two when the trade happened and when he was in the line-up he was essentially just a shootout specialist. He wasn't a very good hockey player and he'd clearly run out of chances in Pittsburgh.
1st = 1st - No comment necessary here.
Bluegers > Nothing - No need for comment here.
2nd > Nothing - See above.

You have to remember...it wasn't just Esposito, Armstrong, Christensen, and a 1st for Hossa...Pascal Dupuis came back as well. Armstrong for Dupuis was essentially a side deal hidden in the bigger deal, as both were third liners that were struggling that season. Armstrong was thought to have more value at the time because of the age difference, but it wasn't a huge gap...his play was pretty brutal at the time of the trade and it really never recovered to what it had been.

I just don't see trading for a guy like Iginla. I worry about how much longer he's going to be able to play at a very high level. Hossa was a bigger flight risk than Iginla is...but Hossa was also 6 years younger. That and finances are a major concern...Malkin, Letang, and Sutter are all up for new contracts after next season.


We need to make an upgrade at wing before the deadline. We don't need to burn down the farm for a star. A Kunitz or Guerin-type deal would suffice just fine.
I would do that deal for Iginla in a second. It would not burn down the farm - we would still have Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin, Pouliot, Morrow, and Bennett - that's 6 high-end guys.

But more to the point, Iginla would give us the elite RH shot winger we've needed since forever. He's extremely durable, consistent, and keeps himself in outstanding shape. It would be worth it just to see what he could do for one playoffs, but I'm sure he'd be inclined to re-sign with us once he gets a taste of making plays with an elite center for the first time in his career. As for finances, we were ready to pony up 7.5 mil per for Parise long-term. Iginla wouldn't require anything close to that commitment.

Screw the Kunitz and Guerin band-aids. Let's get someone who can actually make the opposition pay if they choose to triple team Sid.

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01-27-2013, 11:46 PM
  #65
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A 1st in a great draft year for soon to be 33 year old impending UFA Michael Ryder? Not sure if serious ?

....and we are to add?

Would very much like to sign him in free agency though.
As if a 25th-30th overall pick is going to mean that much to your team.

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01-27-2013, 11:50 PM
  #66
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As if a 25th-30th overall pick is going to mean that much to your team.
Oh, we could. I just don't know that we should. Despite his great last season, I don't think Michael Ryder is worth that kind of return as a rental.

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01-27-2013, 11:56 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I would do that deal for Iginla in a second. It would not burn down the farm - we would still have Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin, Pouliot, Morrow, and Bennett - that's 6 high-end guys.

But more to the point, Iginla would give us the elite RH shot winger we've needed since forever. He's extremely durable, consistent, and keeps himself in outstanding shape. It would be worth it just to see what he could do for one playoffs, but I'm sure he'd be inclined to re-sign with us once he gets a taste of making plays with an elite center for the first time in his career. As for finances, we were ready to pony up 7.5 mil per for Parise long-term. Iginla wouldn't require anything close to that commitment.

Screw the Kunitz and Guerin band-aids. Let's get someone who can actually make the opposition pay if they choose to triple team Sid.
Well, you're alone here. I want no part of your dreams. This isn't a video game, you don't just blow up a farm system and recover instantly. It has taken us this long to have anything resembling a prospect pool since the 2008-10 trades...and a large part of that was trading Jordan Staal.

As for the Kunitz and Guerin band-aids? Yeah, those were Sid's wingers when we won the damn Cup.


Going all-in for Marian Hossa?

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01-27-2013, 11:57 PM
  #68
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Tanner Glass is on your third line? Wow

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01-28-2013, 12:02 AM
  #69
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Oh, we could. I just don't know that we should. Despite his great last season, I don't think Michael Ryder is worth that kind of return as a rental.
Worse players have returned better picks. And this isn't a vacuum, the league doesn't only have Dallas and Pittsburgh in it. I'm sure more than a few teams will be interested in Ryder and drive the price up.

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01-28-2013, 12:02 AM
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Tanner Glass is on your third line? Wow
Second sometimes

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01-28-2013, 12:09 AM
  #71
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Worse players have returned better picks. And this isn't a vacuum, the league doesn't only have Dallas and Pittsburgh in it. I'm sure more than a few teams will be interested in Ryder and drive the price up.
Deal with them then, because that is way too damn much for a signed in his prime Michael Ryder, nevermind a 33 year-old impending UFA Michael Ryder.

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01-28-2013, 12:09 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Well, you're alone here. I want no part of your dreams. This isn't a video game, you don't just blow up a farm system and recover instantly. It has taken us this long to have anything resembling a prospect pool since the 2008-10 trades...and a large part of that was trading Jordan Staal.

As for the Kunitz and Guerin band-aids? Yeah, those were Sid's wingers when we won the damn Cup.


Going all-in for Marian Hossa?
1. This has nothing to do with video games, and everything to do with maximizing talent. Crosby has been neutralized by shadows and double-teams when it matters for long enough. He could use one winger who can command attention from checkers and make the most of his opportunities when set-up for gimmies. Maybe even create something on his own once in awhile. Don't even get me started on what a RH shot like Iggy's could do for the PP.

2. Again, the farm wouldn't be "blown up". We'd be set on the winger front with Bennett on the horizon, and more defense prospects than we can shake a stick at. The only high-end futures we'd lose would be Despres and the 1st...for a proven elite winger.

3. The Cup was great, but using it as justification for our superstar centers' wings is goofy. Should we get rid of Neal and get back Talbot and Feds for Malkin too? After all, that line earned us a Cup once.

4. The Hossa trade was absolutely worth it. We had a long playoff run and came within a game of winning the Cup...and we didn't lose a damn thing worth mentioning.

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01-28-2013, 12:14 AM
  #73
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Why are people down on Despres now, or seemingly is more expendable

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01-28-2013, 12:15 AM
  #74
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4. The Hossa trade was absolutely worth it. We had a long playoff run and came within a game of winning the Cup...and we didn't lose a damn thing worth mentioning.
Dupuis was worth the Hossa trade alone. He's been an absolute gem that can play anywhere in the lineup and on the PK. I'm fine with him riding shotgun with Crosby as long as we can get another winger for him. He's one of the best values in the NHL for his contract, ES and PK production, and what he brings to the team.

Pens really don't need 2 wingers. Ideally they could use one RH RWer that can play with 87 and on the PP since our only RH shot on the PP is Letang.

We don't even need a stud as Guerin showed. Honestly a guy like Brendan Morrow would do.

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01-28-2013, 12:16 AM
  #75
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Why are people down on Despres now, or seemingly is more expendable
Because we have a glut of young defensemen, with Despres being the first to make it to the NHL and by putting Kunitz with Crosby, we have scrubs playing with Malkin and Neal killing that line.

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