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Pittsburgh Needs Two Top Six Wingers

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Old
01-28-2013, 01:32 AM
  #101
ErnieLeafs
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I think the Leafs would happily take Maata and a 1st for Kulemin.

Adding Maata would give our Back-end solid young depth. Our future would involve guys like Rielly, Gardiner, Maata, Blacker, Finn, and Stuart Percy, whic would be great moving forward.

The 1st would almost certainly be in the 25-30 range, and would be great to package with our 2nd rounder to move up in the 1st round.

I think it's clear, under Nonis, that patience is the new Mantra, and drafting will be at a premium over the next 2-3 years.

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01-28-2013, 01:36 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armandh01 View Post
We got Hemsky, hur hur.

He could use a change of scenery.
Dear god, not the Hemsky crap again. The guy that was worth more than Staal according to Oilers fans? Pens got a 1st (Derrick Pouliot), Sutter, and Dumoulin for that guy. Probably could have gotten way more too if Jordan didn't want to go to Carolina only. You think Hemsky is worth that much?

At this point, not sure what Ales' value is. All I know is that discussing any trade proposals with Oilers fans here results in migraines. Paajarvi and Hemsky would be nice, both need a change of scenery.

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01-28-2013, 01:37 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I think the Leafs would happily take Maata and a 1st for Kulemin.

Adding Maata would give our Back-end solid young depth. Our future would involve guys like Rielly, Gardiner, Maata, Blacker, Finn, and Stuart Percy, whic would be great moving forward.

The 1st would almost certainly be in the 25-30 range, and would be great to package with our 2nd rounder to move up in the 1st round.

I think it's clear, under Nonis, that patience is the new Mantra, and drafting will be at a premium over the next 2-3 years.
If you leafs fans want Maatta and a 1st, the next few letters after K coming the other way better be "essel" not "ulemin."

Come correct, son.

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01-28-2013, 01:37 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by armandh01 View Post
We got Hemsky, hur hur.

He could use a change of scenery.
He doesn't play like Craig Adams or a typical 4th liner. Bylsma would bench him or put him on the 4th line

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01-28-2013, 01:39 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I think the Leafs would happily take Maata and a 1st for Kulemin.
So basically you want two #1 picks for Kulemin...



No.

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01-28-2013, 01:45 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
If you leafs fans want Maatta and a 1st, the next few letters after K coming the other way better be "essel" not "ulemin."

Come correct, son.
Both of these are god awful. People seriously overrate picks around here, though.

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01-28-2013, 01:48 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
If you leafs fans want Maatta and a 1st, the next few letters after K coming the other way better be "essel" not "ulemin."

Come correct, son.
Lol...

I'll be nice, because in reality, these kinds of threads are silly to begin with, but you don't have a player not named Crosby or Malkin that wouldn't require a ++ for Kessel, save for MAYBE James Neal. And no, I'm not suggesting any ofthose would EVER be moved for Phil, before anyone goes all internet toughguy around here... Lol

The only reason I even mentioned the pick was because you would be acquiring a guy that the Leafs organization doesn't really have a desire to move, and that costs teams legitimate assets.

I'm not good with proposing trades in a hypothetical fantasy world, but this is a case where I think a guy like Kulemin could be more valuable to your team than he is to our's. we're going to be rebuilding some over the next few years, and his abilities would suit your wings well, while he may simply be pushed out for less down the line, if we hang on until his value dwindles.

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01-28-2013, 02:22 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Both of these are god awful. People seriously overrate picks around here, though.
So the Pens should be cool with giving up a recently drafted 1st rounder and a 1st in a deep draft for Kulemin?

No chance. Would your team give up that amount? Pretty weak on the wings there as well...

What makes you think Maatta isn't a stud d-prospect? Or that 1st isn't valuable? If the Pens are giving up that much, it better be for a winger that doesn't have 1 good year offensively, under his belt, at age 26.

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01-28-2013, 02:24 AM
  #109
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Ugh. I hate stuff like this.


Kulemin isn't anywhere near good enough to get Määttä and a 1st. The resulting response is essentially an equally awful 'proposal' the opposite way...and somehow there's a page or two responding to the purposefully awful proposal as if it were serious.

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01-28-2013, 02:25 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Lol...

I'll be nice, because in reality, these kinds of threads are silly to begin with, but you don't have a player not named Crosby or Malkin that wouldn't require a ++ for Kessel, save for MAYBE James Neal. And no, I'm not suggesting any ofthose would EVER be moved for Phil, before anyone goes all internet toughguy around here... Lol

The only reason I even mentioned the pick was because you would be acquiring a guy that the Leafs organization doesn't really have a desire to move, and that costs teams legitimate assets.

I'm not good with proposing trades in a hypothetical fantasy world, but this is a case where I think a guy like Kulemin could be more valuable to your team than he is to our's. we're going to be rebuilding some over the next few years, and his abilities would suit your wings well, while he may simply be pushed out for less down the line, if we hang on until his value dwindles.
He scored 30 goals 2yrs ago, then 7 last year...the previous totals were 16 and 15.

You give up that kind of package for a more consistent scorer that is struggling as of late and needs a change of scenery, not for a guy that's 26, has 1 good offensive year under his belt and then followed it up with half as many points as he had the year before.

I guess Tyler Kennedy is worth more than we Pens fans thought.


And yeah, for Kessel, that would probably be a starting point, Maatta and a 1st, not the only two things...people need to wake up.

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01-28-2013, 06:48 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I think the Leafs would happily take Maata and a 1st for Kulemin.

Adding Maata would give our Back-end solid young depth. Our future would involve guys like Rielly, Gardiner, Maata, Blacker, Finn, and Stuart Percy, whic would be great moving forward.

The 1st would almost certainly be in the 25-30 range, and would be great to package with our 2nd rounder to move up in the 1st round.

I think it's clear, under Nonis, that patience is the new Mantra, and drafting will be at a premium over the next 2-3 years.

Maatta and a first is a pass for Pittsburgh.

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01-28-2013, 07:20 AM
  #112
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That Iginla proposal is over-payment and I really doubt Feaster's willingness to trade him.

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01-28-2013, 08:14 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Well, you're alone here. I want no part of your dreams. This isn't a video game, you don't just blow up a farm system and recover instantly. It has taken us this long to have anything resembling a prospect pool since the 2008-10 trades...and a large part of that was trading Jordan Staal.

As for the Kunitz and Guerin band-aids? Yeah, those were Sid's wingers when we won the damn Cup.


Going all-in for Marian Hossa?
Owning this thread. Well done.

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01-28-2013, 08:19 AM
  #114
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It's come to the point this season where almost all Pens fans now realize that their #1 weakness is the lack of top 6 wingers to play with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Right now their lineup looks a lot like this:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Kennedy-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Glass
Tangradi-Vitale-Adams


There are two notable flaws in the top 6, first being the evident problem on Malkin's line. TK is a great 3rd liner and has great chemistry with Sutter, but just isn't the complementary winger like Kunitz was last year on that line. Now, the average fan would just suggest to move Kunitz back to Malkin's line, which would be the logicial thing to do. Problem is, we aren't Dan Byslma . Seriously though, if Kunitz was moved to Malkin's line Crosby would have a gaping hole on the wing, and neither TK nor Tangradi nor a raw Beau Bennett can fill. That's where Needed Winger #1 comes in.

Needed Winger #1 would probably be a rental winger with an expiring contract, but someone that is a notch above complementary, an Iginla/Perry/Ryder/Semin type of player. The deal would probably happen at the trade deadline, so sellers could be parted away from contenders. A deal that I could see happening is Despres/Morrow/Pouliot + Blueger + TK/Tangradi + 1st for a legitimate 1st line player.

If Needed Winger #1 is acquired, our lines would look like this:

#1-Crosby-Dupuis
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
TK/Tangradi-Sutter-Cooke
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Lineup looks much better, but there are some flaws. First of all, some people may say that Dupuis isn't a legitimate top 6 forward, which is certainly plausible. I think that a TK-Sutter-Dupuis line would be great, they would win almost every race to the puck and control the possession in the opponent's end, giving us chances and our top 6 a rest. The other possible flaw is the play of Chris Kunitz this season. He looked pretty bad in the first 4 games, and was awful tonight against Ottawa. I think that a line switch may increase his composure, but I'm not sure if it's just a cold streak or a decline in play. Those two factors incorporated, the Pens will have to get Needed Winger #2.

Needed Winger #2 has a couple of different sections, but all of the sections share the same motive for coming to Pittsburgh. Winger #2 is not an elite forward that could be the star of a line, but is more of a complementary winger. There are young wingers who's stats have decreased (Chris Stewart, Devin Setoguchi, Nikolai Kulemin). At the trade deadline, these players may command something like a first round pick or a top 6 winger depending on where the team stands in the standings.
If the Pens wanted to go with a safer player I could see them going for a guy who has more consistent production (Ryane Clowe, Blake Wheeler, Dany Heatley) but would risk overpayment.
The last scenario would be a winger that is not being utilized fully by the team or is frustrated with the team itself (guys like Matt D'Agostini, Nino Niederreiter, and Magnus Pääjärvi).

We would obviously have to pay the most for Winger #1, then #2B, #2A, and lastly #2C. Lots of Pens fans want to see different scenarios take place, and mine would look like this:

(both trades take place at deadline)

For Winger #1:



Jarome Iginla



Simon Despres
Eric Tangradi
Theodor Blueger
2013 1st
2014 2nd


Then for Winger #2:



Ryane Clowe
Douglas Murray



Brooks Orpik


or



Olli Maatta
Dustin Jeffrey
2013 2nd



Nikolai Kulemin


Would make the Pens lineup look like:

Kunitz/Clowe-Crosby-Iginla
Kulemin/Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Kennedy-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams


Interesting.


Everyone would be included in trade discussion except for Crosby, Malkin, Sutter, Neal, Letang, and Fleury. Let the offers commence.

(Credit to http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1329701 for help)
Leafs aren't interested in 2nd round picks. Oli is a nice prospect but the Leafs have a ton of D prospects. Rielly, Percy, Blacker, Finn, Holzner, Gardiner....lots of youth on D. Kule could be had but that's not a fit the Leafs are looking for. It would cost your 1st ++

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01-28-2013, 08:22 AM
  #115
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Maata + 1st for Kule is what is want. Although I'd prob do Harrington + 1st if the 1st is decent

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01-28-2013, 08:30 AM
  #116
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The problem is that many teams have defensive pieces worth trading but not enough supply for forwards to acquire a big time offensive piece. Everyone's holding onto their forwards like gold.
There's literally nothing to support this idea.

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01-28-2013, 08:36 AM
  #117
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I'm honestly amazed how many Penguins fans are watching this team and thinking that offense is the problem. Also, does no one remember where the Pens ranked in goals scored last year?

While it would be nice to add a top six winger unless that player completely changes their puck management in their own zone it won't mean much. Also, please stop playing Lovejoy.

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01-28-2013, 08:36 AM
  #118
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I can see Iginla going to Pittsburgh but that's to much to give up for a guy who turns 36 this year. Maybe a 2013 1st plus Beau Bennett and a secondary defensive prospect would be a better package.

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01-28-2013, 08:47 AM
  #119
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Lack of top 6 forwards? What is this a joke?

Crosby, Malkin, Neal... Right off the bat you have 3 all stars. Thats 1/2 of your top 6 being 3 of the best in the league. Crosby and Malkin are top 2 or 3 or 5. Neal is top 5 LW and a top 20-30 player easily. Kunitz adds punch and speed and hes not too shabby of a winger playing with Crosby or any of their top 2 centers lol.

So I REALLLLY Dont think the lack of talent on their top 6 is the issue what so ever.

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01-28-2013, 08:57 AM
  #120
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I can see Iginla going to Pittsburgh but that's to much to give up for a guy who turns 36 this year. Maybe a 2013 1st plus Beau Bennett and a secondary defensive prospect would be a better package.
I don't think Bennett will be included in any package, especially for a rental. He's part of the solution.

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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Lack of top 6 forwards? What is this a joke?

Crosby, Malkin, Neal... Right off the bat you have 3 all stars. Thats 1/2 of your top 6 being 3 of the best in the league. Crosby and Malkin are top 2 or 3 or 5. Neal is top 5 LW and a top 20-30 player easily. Kunitz adds punch and speed and hes not too shabby of a winger playing with Crosby or any of their top 2 centers lol.

So I REALLLLY Dont think the lack of talent on their top 6 is the issue what so ever.
This isn't a thread about top-6 FORWARDS it's a thread about top-6 wingers. So they have 1 out of 4 that are playing as such. They're playing Tanner Glass on the 2nd line, Pascal Dupuis on the 1st line, and Chris Kunitz needs a staycation in the press box.

This idea that Pens fans are acting spoiled because they want to improve their team is ridiculous. The D has been better than anyone expected and the bottom-6 is fine. The weak area on the team continues to be the lack of creative offensive players on the top-2 (specifically top-1) lines.

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01-28-2013, 08:59 AM
  #121
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Well Ovechkin is roaring back and his favorite team growing up was Pittsburgh... so...
screw it. Lets go get Ovechkin.

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01-28-2013, 09:05 AM
  #122
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I can see Iginla going to Pittsburgh but that's to much to give up for a guy who turns 36 this year. Maybe a 2013 1st plus Beau Bennett and a secondary defensive prospect would be a better package.
That is too much. So, our top forward prospect ... First rounder from three years ago along with a first rounder in a deep 2013 draft and another piece?

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01-28-2013, 09:06 AM
  #123
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Leafs aren't interested in 2nd round picks. Oli is a nice prospect but the Leafs have a ton of D prospects. Rielly, Percy, Blacker, Finn, Holzner, Gardiner....lots of youth on D. Kule could be had but that's not a fit the Leafs are looking for. It would cost your 1st ++
Ok ... So if you are loaded with defense, there is no reason to continue with any discussion regarding Toronto and Pittsburgh.

A first plus is a joke

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01-28-2013, 09:19 AM
  #124
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It is hard to acquire top end talent in free agency without having to overpay. I don't know what the PENS needs are. What I do know is they have had little success drafting forwards in later rounds in recent years like the majority of teams. NHL scouting has become better than ever and its becoming more and more difficult to uncover the late round gem.
This is why I understand the OP feelings. I really don't think the Penquins would be wise to sell the farm for UFA's and aging but talented vets.
Perhaps the Pens could try for Dustin Penner or Simone Gagner from the Kings.
There has been talk about Victor Stallberg and Sam Gagner (C)
I could see the Leafs selling at the deadline but asking for way too much.
Its going to be slim pickings this year because of the condensed 48 game schedule.
Could Semin be a viable option?
Im sure the PENS could get Leino for cheap.
WHat would the PEns trade for Keith Aucoin or Josh Bailey?

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01-28-2013, 09:20 AM
  #125
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Ugh. I hate stuff like this.


Kulemin isn't anywhere near good enough to get Määttä and a 1st. The resulting response is essentially an equally awful 'proposal' the opposite way...and somehow there's a page or two responding to the purposefully awful proposal as if it were serious.
It's the HFBoards trade rumors forum. What do you expect?

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